5 ms·

> Genuinely create value for society - not just look to make a buck. It's more sustainable and rewarding in the long run. I loathe reading stuff like this. Mon

> Genuinely create value for society - not just look to make a buck. It's more sustainable and rewarding in the long run. I loathe reading stuff like this. Money is so important until you have it, and then it becomes fashionable to talk how there are more important things. To any SAAS founders who feel strongly that there are more important things than money, feel free to give away your fortunes to feed the hungry if you’re in search of a higher calling. There are many who would appreciate it.

LastTrain 3y ago
The point wasn’t that money is not important, it’s that it isn’t the only thing that is important. Things are rarely binary.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  > Things are rarely binary. Things are remarkably binary in capitalism. Try pitching a VC on a startup concept that’s about more than money and see how far it gets you. Or hit up just a few of hundreds of thousands laid off in the industry over the last year and ask them how important money is to them. People who talk about wishing they hadn’t focused so much on the money are the ones who have it. Such tone-deaf takes are only possible once you’ve secured yourself against the system. The rest of us dream to one day be in a place to say such stupid things.
  - LastTrain 3y ago
    Again, you are missing the point. The advice being given, advice for success, is that you will do better in the long run if your focus is broader than just profit.
  - maccard 3y ago
    > Try pitching a VC on a startup concept that’s about more than money and see how far it gets you. I'm curious, have you written a pitch to a VC? I've been involved in ours, and it's very much not about the money. It's about the idea, the people, and telling a story. Look at the top VC investments in the last few years. They're all AI. Before that was crypto, and before that was ML. > People who talk about wishing they hadn’t focused so much on the money are the ones who have it. You're missing OPs point, and I'm pretty sure you're doing it on purpose. Go back and read it again and reply to what he said, not what you're claiming he said
    - reactordev 3y ago
      The fact that they mentioned it means they haven’t otherwise they wouldn’t have said it. All the VCs I know want to make money but ALSO want to leave a positive impact on society and the world. The “Do Good” is on the forefront of their minds. Sustainability. Renewals. Finding more novel and safer ways to do something risky. There’s a lot more that goes into decisions than money. Faith in leadership is another.
  - spencerflem 3y ago
    No? There is an area between being unemployed and making huge money with scams and shady tactics where you can make less but non-zero money and create real value for the world. Not everything needs to be a VC pitch. People go into teaching (for example) knowing that it doesn't make much money because they want to make a difference, and plenty of them don't regret it.
hliyan 3y ago
This is a (bad-faith?) misreading. What I took away was: a business that attempts to maximise profits without returning a corresponding value to society is likely to fail.
- bulkprotocol 3y ago
  Is that even remotely in the real world?
  - dinkleberg 3y ago
    Edit: I missed the society part from the original argument. The value doesn’t need to be to society but to some people somewhere in order to succeed. Of course it is! Show me a successful business that doesn’t give genuine value to their target audience. The target audience may not be who you think it is, but you had best believe that someone is getting value or else the business would fail.
    - takinola 3y ago
      You will most likely fail but there are examples of companies, like Groupon, that created negative value for their customers.
    - nitwit005 3y ago
      Fraud seem to be a pretty successful business model. I suppose you have to at least temporarily appear to be providing value, before your casino leaves your customer bankrupt.
    - hnhg 3y ago
      Tobacco companies. Net value is higher risk of serious illness.
Workaccount2 3y ago
If they actually cared about making society better over making a buck, then they wouldn't use an SaaS business model.
sambull 3y ago
Maybe he just knew he had more throws at the dart board.
spencerflem 3y ago
I don't see how you could possibly object to the idea that a business should create genuine value. In theory, that's the entire point of why we as a society allow businesses to exist
karaterobot 3y ago
I think that the vast majority of people who are creating SaaS companies are not looking to improve society if it costs them money in the long run. Fortunately, it seems to be possible to both satisfy human greed and improve the world—if imperfectly—as a side effect. SaaS founders aren't the best people we've got, in the moral sense, but sometimes they're the best we've got, in the sense that we'll take what we get.
olah_1 3y ago
> I loathe reading stuff like this. Money is so important until you have it, and then it becomes fashionable to talk how there are more important things. YEP. It's funny how it's always the multi-millionaires that talk about the importance of God, giving back, being honest. And "the rest will come naturally". It's absolutely sinister gate-keeping.
- MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago
  It also reeks of survivorship bias and a privileged/sheltered upbringing. I know plenty of people who live this way and aren’t rich or even middle class. In fact it implies that if you aren’t rich you didn’t live your life a good way.
benjaminwootton 3y ago
Is there anything wrong with that? When you’ve ticked off the money requirement then you can move onto higher level things and trying to change the world. Maslow hierarchy of needs, and it’s probably better for everyone that it exists.
layer8 3y ago
For me the point is, if you care more about the money than about the product, then the product will inevitably become worse and worse. We already have far too many such products. I don’t see how anyone can truly feel fulfilled by operating a business that’s more about the profit than about the product. Is that what they want their life to be about? It just seems soulless and devoid of meaning and purpose. Profitability should be the means to a purpose, but it should not be a purpose in itself.
satvikpendem 3y ago
Thinking about money is what leads to enshittification though, so it's useful to think about it initially but if you continue along that path, your company and product will irreparably suffer.

LastTrain 3y ago

The point wasn’t that money is not important, it’s that it isn’t the only thing that is important. Things are rarely binary.

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
> Things are rarely binary. Things are remarkably binary in capitalism. Try pitching a VC on a startup concept that’s about more than money and see how far it gets you. Or hit up just a few of hundreds of thousands laid off in the industry over the last year and ask them how important money is to them. People who talk about wishing they hadn’t focused so much on the money are the ones who have it. Such tone-deaf takes are only possible once you’ve secured yourself against the system. The rest of us dream to one day be in a place to say such stupid things.
- LastTrain 3y ago
  Again, you are missing the point. The advice being given, advice for success, is that you will do better in the long run if your focus is broader than just profit.
- maccard 3y ago
  > Try pitching a VC on a startup concept that’s about more than money and see how far it gets you. I'm curious, have you written a pitch to a VC? I've been involved in ours, and it's very much not about the money. It's about the idea, the people, and telling a story. Look at the top VC investments in the last few years. They're all AI. Before that was crypto, and before that was ML. > People who talk about wishing they hadn’t focused so much on the money are the ones who have it. You're missing OPs point, and I'm pretty sure you're doing it on purpose. Go back and read it again and reply to what he said, not what you're claiming he said
  - reactordev 3y ago
    The fact that they mentioned it means they haven’t otherwise they wouldn’t have said it. All the VCs I know want to make money but ALSO want to leave a positive impact on society and the world. The “Do Good” is on the forefront of their minds. Sustainability. Renewals. Finding more novel and safer ways to do something risky. There’s a lot more that goes into decisions than money. Faith in leadership is another.
- spencerflem 3y ago
  No? There is an area between being unemployed and making huge money with scams and shady tactics where you can make less but non-zero money and create real value for the world. Not everything needs to be a VC pitch. People go into teaching (for example) knowing that it doesn't make much money because they want to make a difference, and plenty of them don't regret it.

hliyan 3y ago

This is a (bad-faith?) misreading. What I took away was: a business that attempts to maximise profits without returning a corresponding value to society is likely to fail.

bulkprotocol 3y ago
Is that even remotely in the real world?
- dinkleberg 3y ago
  Edit: I missed the society part from the original argument. The value doesn’t need to be to society but to some people somewhere in order to succeed. Of course it is! Show me a successful business that doesn’t give genuine value to their target audience. The target audience may not be who you think it is, but you had best believe that someone is getting value or else the business would fail.
  - takinola 3y ago
    You will most likely fail but there are examples of companies, like Groupon, that created negative value for their customers.
  - nitwit005 3y ago
    Fraud seem to be a pretty successful business model. I suppose you have to at least temporarily appear to be providing value, before your casino leaves your customer bankrupt.
  - hnhg 3y ago
    Tobacco companies. Net value is higher risk of serious illness.

Workaccount2 3y ago

If they actually cared about making society better over making a buck, then they wouldn't use an SaaS business model.

sambull 3y ago

Maybe he just knew he had more throws at the dart board.

spencerflem 3y ago

I don't see how you could possibly object to the idea that a business should create genuine value. In theory, that's the entire point of why we as a society allow businesses to exist

karaterobot 3y ago

I think that the vast majority of people who are creating SaaS companies are not looking to improve society if it costs them money in the long run. Fortunately, it seems to be possible to both satisfy human greed and improve the world—if imperfectly—as a side effect. SaaS founders aren't the best people we've got, in the moral sense, but sometimes they're the best we've got, in the sense that we'll take what we get.

olah_1 3y ago

> I loathe reading stuff like this. Money is so important until you have it, and then it becomes fashionable to talk how there are more important things. YEP. It's funny how it's always the multi-millionaires that talk about the importance of God, giving back, being honest. And "the rest will come naturally". It's absolutely sinister gate-keeping.

MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago
It also reeks of survivorship bias and a privileged/sheltered upbringing. I know plenty of people who live this way and aren’t rich or even middle class. In fact it implies that if you aren’t rich you didn’t live your life a good way.

benjaminwootton 3y ago

Is there anything wrong with that? When you’ve ticked off the money requirement then you can move onto higher level things and trying to change the world. Maslow hierarchy of needs, and it’s probably better for everyone that it exists.

layer8 3y ago

For me the point is, if you care more about the money than about the product, then the product will inevitably become worse and worse. We already have far too many such products. I don’t see how anyone can truly feel fulfilled by operating a business that’s more about the profit than about the product. Is that what they want their life to be about? It just seems soulless and devoid of meaning and purpose. Profitability should be the means to a purpose, but it should not be a purpose in itself.

satvikpendem 3y ago

Thinking about money is what leads to enshittification though, so it's useful to think about it initially but if you continue along that path, your company and product will irreparably suffer.