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Interesting. Very low level though and C(++) centric. She there any thoughts on combining the hardware and OS features with rust or https://vale.dev https://val

Interesting. Very low level though and C(++) centric. She there any thoughts on combining the hardware and OS features with rust or https://vale.dev https://vale.dev ?

kwitaszczyk 3y ago
CHERI is not specific to C/C++ but aims to provide primitives at the hardware level that can be used to make software safer (including programming languages) in terms of (spatial and temporal) memory safety and also to compartmentalize your software stack (e.g., separate third-party software libraries from the core of your application). It is true that the only currently stable CHERI-extended SDKs for programming languages are CHERI LLVM [1] (for CHERI-RISC-V) and LLVM for Morello [2] for CHERI C/C++ [3]. However, there have been more projects that extend other SDKs for CHERI: Rust [4] [5], JavaScriptCore and WebKit [6] [7], OpenJDK [8]. [1] https://github.com/CTSRD-CHERI/llvm-project https://github.com/CTSRD-CHERI/llvm-project [2] https://git.morello-project.org/morello/llvm-project https://git.morello-project.org/morello/llvm-project [3] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-947.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-947.pdf [4] https://github.com/kent-weak-memory/rust https://github.com/kent-weak-memory/rust [5] https://soft-dev.org/events/cheritech22/slides/Cooksey.pdf https://soft-dev.org/events/cheritech22/slides/Cooksey.pdf [6] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri-webkit.html https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri... [7] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-975.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-975.pdf [8] https://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~jsinger/cheritech23_slides/anisbet_cheritech.pdf https://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~jsinger/cheritech23_slides/anisbe...
saagarjha 3y ago
CHERI is primarily targeted at providing safety for codebases that would benefit from moving spatial safety into hardware. Since most C(++) code has none of these checks at all, using CHERI allows you to retrofit the code to make it more secure. Rust and other safe languages currently reliably emit these checks in software which means it’s not as necessary for a hardware implementation of these things, but such code running in these systems could drop some of the software checks and rely on the CHERI primitives instead.
- __s 3y ago
  Rust would still benefit from this with unsafe code. & on that front they need to do some changes since Rust code assumes pointers can be converted to/from usize/isize https://faultlore.com/blah/fix-rust-pointers https://faultlore.com/blah/fix-rust-pointers
- IshKebab 3y ago
  Part of CHERI can also be used for software compartmentalisation which Rust has no support for.
__s 3y ago
There's plenty resources on CHERI/rust https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31024127 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31024127 Making Rust a Better Fit for Cheri and Other Platforms by same author https://archive.fosdem.org/2023/schedule/event/rust_a_rusty_cheri_the_path_to_hardware_capabilities_in_rust https://archive.fosdem.org/2023/schedule/event/rust_a_rusty_...

Interesting. Very low level though and C(++) centric. She there any thoughts on combining the hardware and OS features with rust or https://vale.dev https://vale.dev ?

kwitaszczyk 3y ago

CHERI is not specific to C/C++ but aims to provide primitives at the hardware level that can be used to make software safer (including programming languages) in terms of (spatial and temporal) memory safety and also to compartmentalize your software stack (e.g., separate third-party software libraries from the core of your application). It is true that the only currently stable CHERI-extended SDKs for programming languages are CHERI LLVM [1] (for CHERI-RISC-V) and LLVM for Morello [2] for CHERI C/C++ [3]. However, there have been more projects that extend other SDKs for CHERI: Rust [4] [5], JavaScriptCore and WebKit [6] [7], OpenJDK [8]. [1] https://github.com/CTSRD-CHERI/llvm-project https://github.com/CTSRD-CHERI/llvm-project [2] https://git.morello-project.org/morello/llvm-project https://git.morello-project.org/morello/llvm-project [3] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-947.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-947.pdf [4] https://github.com/kent-weak-memory/rust https://github.com/kent-weak-memory/rust [5] https://soft-dev.org/events/cheritech22/slides/Cooksey.pdf https://soft-dev.org/events/cheritech22/slides/Cooksey.pdf [6] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri-webkit.html https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri... [7] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-975.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-975.pdf [8] https://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~jsinger/cheritech23_slides/anisbet_cheritech.pdf https://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~jsinger/cheritech23_slides/anisbe...

saagarjha 3y ago

CHERI is primarily targeted at providing safety for codebases that would benefit from moving spatial safety into hardware. Since most C(++) code has none of these checks at all, using CHERI allows you to retrofit the code to make it more secure. Rust and other safe languages currently reliably emit these checks in software which means it’s not as necessary for a hardware implementation of these things, but such code running in these systems could drop some of the software checks and rely on the CHERI primitives instead.

__s 3y ago
Rust would still benefit from this with unsafe code. & on that front they need to do some changes since Rust code assumes pointers can be converted to/from usize/isize https://faultlore.com/blah/fix-rust-pointers https://faultlore.com/blah/fix-rust-pointers
IshKebab 3y ago
Part of CHERI can also be used for software compartmentalisation which Rust has no support for.

__s 3y ago

There's plenty resources on CHERI/rust https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31024127 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31024127 Making Rust a Better Fit for Cheri and Other Platforms by same author https://archive.fosdem.org/2023/schedule/event/rust_a_rusty_cheri_the_path_to_hardware_capabilities_in_rust https://archive.fosdem.org/2023/schedule/event/rust_a_rusty_...