3 ms·

What with the difficulty of manually verifying translations of numerous languages that you don't understand ... I can't help but wonder if tooling could at lea

by o11c 3y ago

What with the difficulty of manually verifying translations of numerous languages that you don't understand ... I can't help but wonder if tooling could at least help check the degree of difference between previous releases and the current release.

koyote 3y ago
> I can't help but wonder if tooling could at least help check the degree of difference between previous releases and the current release. Or run the translated text through Google Translate (or similar) and have someone do a quick sanity check?
- scns 3y ago
  > (or similar) Have made experiences with DeepL
- dylan604 3y ago
  If you were willing to do that, why not just start there in the first place?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    Subpar results; it's harder to translate than to check a translation.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Sometimes they really mess things up when there’s little context. A few basic examples: “file” in English is both a verb and a noun, but other languages have different words for each. The machine translator will just guess at presenting you the noun or verb. Other languages have genders for everything, so if a computer is male, but a standalone sentence doesn’t know that, the translator has to take a guess. If it guesses wrong, the sentence will be confusing to the user that thinks it’s about something other than a computer. That’s just scratching the surface.
    - pests 3y ago
      This recently was an issue for zip files in UK Windows (or something) being translated as "post code files"
      - debugnik 3y ago
        Reminds me of a mistake in Spanish in a TomTom device I have around: "AP" stands for autopista (motorway) but it reads "AP" aloud as apartado postal (PO box).
        Scoundreller 3y ago
        Have had some satnav apps when set in French translate “dr” in an Anglo street name as “docteur” instead of reading it as “drive”. Just because I set the language to something foreign, it doesn’t mean I’m in that country with its street naming conventions.
  - jmopp 3y ago
    Have the machine translation more as a sanity check than the actual translation: you don't want to blindly trust what the machine produces if it's in a language you don't understand. But going the other way for quality control can eliminate the most egregious cases like this.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      Sounds like more fine tuning is necessary. At this point in time with LLMs, I'm really surprised at how auto-translation is still so not natural. I mean, I get why it is that way, but at the same time, it's no less shocking how bad it is.
remram 3y ago
You can't compare if they are new strings.
ccooffee 3y ago
It's a VERY time-consuming process to do a thorough review of localization materials. I've spent multiple working days on single massive commits when working with an unreliable translation provider. I can absolutely believe that someone glanced at the diff (linked elsewhere in this HN thread) at thought "that looks good enough". It wasn't a very large diff, and didn't do anything that reviewers will be keyed for (bizarre punctuation, formatting errors, incorrect captured variable references, etc). Offensive localization strings is not a threat I'd considered when I did my work. I doubt the reviewers of this repo thought it was a concern.

by o11c 3y ago

koyote 3y ago

> I can't help but wonder if tooling could at least help check the degree of difference between previous releases and the current release. Or run the translated text through Google Translate (or similar) and have someone do a quick sanity check?

scns 3y ago
> (or similar) Have made experiences with DeepL
dylan604 3y ago
If you were willing to do that, why not just start there in the first place?
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  Subpar results; it's harder to translate than to check a translation.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Sometimes they really mess things up when there’s little context. A few basic examples: “file” in English is both a verb and a noun, but other languages have different words for each. The machine translator will just guess at presenting you the noun or verb. Other languages have genders for everything, so if a computer is male, but a standalone sentence doesn’t know that, the translator has to take a guess. If it guesses wrong, the sentence will be confusing to the user that thinks it’s about something other than a computer. That’s just scratching the surface.
  - pests 3y ago
    This recently was an issue for zip files in UK Windows (or something) being translated as "post code files"
    - debugnik 3y ago
      Reminds me of a mistake in Spanish in a TomTom device I have around: "AP" stands for autopista (motorway) but it reads "AP" aloud as apartado postal (PO box).
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        Have had some satnav apps when set in French translate “dr” in an Anglo street name as “docteur” instead of reading it as “drive”. Just because I set the language to something foreign, it doesn’t mean I’m in that country with its street naming conventions.
- jmopp 3y ago
  Have the machine translation more as a sanity check than the actual translation: you don't want to blindly trust what the machine produces if it's in a language you don't understand. But going the other way for quality control can eliminate the most egregious cases like this.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Sounds like more fine tuning is necessary. At this point in time with LLMs, I'm really surprised at how auto-translation is still so not natural. I mean, I get why it is that way, but at the same time, it's no less shocking how bad it is.

remram 3y ago

You can't compare if they are new strings.

ccooffee 3y ago

It's a VERY time-consuming process to do a thorough review of localization materials. I've spent multiple working days on single massive commits when working with an unreliable translation provider. I can absolutely believe that someone glanced at the diff (linked elsewhere in this HN thread) at thought "that looks good enough". It wasn't a very large diff, and didn't do anything that reviewers will be keyed for (bizarre punctuation, formatting errors, incorrect captured variable references, etc). Offensive localization strings is not a threat I'd considered when I did my work. I doubt the reviewers of this repo thought it was a concern.