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Framework 13 AMD 7040 Series: A Developer's First Impressions

181 points by zackify 3y ago

zackify 3y ago
I just got this device on Monday, been waiting for over half a year for it. I love it, but also wow, so many random things I have had to do the past few days. I think this provides a good prospective compared to all the mainstream posts about it that aren't going in depth on linux and the usability on there at this current time. Overall, I love this device!
- pella 3y ago
  The testing for Linux will require a few more weeks of delay due to a BIOS issue. "AMD Ryzen Powered Framework Laptop Linux Testing Held Up By BIOS Issue" https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Framework-Linux-Hold https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Framework-Linux-Hold
- SamuelAdams 3y ago
  Thanks for the article, I thought it was very helpful! You mentioned it a little bit, but is the trackpad better on wayland? How does it compare to a MBP? And finally, can you dock the framework laptop to a USB-C docking station for external monitor support? I haven’t seen a lot of reviews mention this and I’m curious what that looks like today.
  - zackify 3y ago
    I just tried plugging into a caldigit dock, and it didn't work. I am not sure why. The env in general uses wayland but certain apps don't. In those apps you don't have good gesture support. I would say its 80-85% as good as a mac trackpad when wayland is on everything
    - pmontra 3y ago
      By the way, what is that "two finger swipe back and forth in a web browser" that you are missing from a Mac? I use the keyboard a lot and the touchpad only to move the pointer and scroll, so I'm pretty ignorant about the matter.
  - travisby 3y ago
    I have my amd framework hooked up to a Lenovo 27" monitor over USB c and that daisy chained to another of the same monitor type over display link and it works like a champ: USB, video, Ethernet, and power all through the one cable. Though it did NOT work out of the box to a display link USB A dock. I think it needs display link kernel module and I didn't want to bother.
  - gabll 3y ago
    I found that on Debian 12 (13th Intel Framework 13) connecting a 4K external display via HDMI is definitely more stable than USB-C. I also tried some Windows games with Steam Play and HDMI enables higher resolutions on the display (that was not the case with USB-C, I don’t know why).
- wesapien 3y ago
  Would you have the same experience if some gave you a Thinkpad instead? Seems like most issues are Linux related and non-Linux users would have the most sooprise about having to config/diy/hack/tweak/script something. No?
7e 3y ago
A litany of problems, but the owner likes it anyway. Gadget therapy for the post-modern human.
- voltagex_ 3y ago
  What tech do you use?
syntaxing 3y ago
If you only can buy this or a M2 MBP, which one would you get?
- holografix 3y ago
  There’s no doubt in anyone’s mind which laptop is better value for money. People that buy framework laptops buy it out of principle. Repairability, upgradability, openness, Linux support. Etc
  - nine_k 3y ago
    Do repairability, upgradability, configurability have zero value?
    - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
      For the typical laptop? I’m going to replace my Mac before I need non-warranty service. I’d say the typical user is in the same boat
    - noirbot 3y ago
      I feel like they either have zero or infinite value. On pure "which laptop would I pick to do a task" it's almost never going to be a Framework. It's objectively a worse laptop for almost all daily tasks. The issue is that repairability and upgradability are, unless you regularly break your computer, at most a once a year occurrence. On that day, you have a better laptop with the Framework (maybe). The other 364, you're dealing with new and novel frustrations you haven't had to deal with for over a decade in computing. Is your value system such that, being able to potentially manually replace a broken part is worth dealing with a bad computer the rest of the time? Just today, I spent 30 minutes just trying to work out how to get my system clock to sync with my hardware clock, and how to get both of them to be accurate, because the Framework's battery management is so abysmal that I have to keep it shut down at all times it's not in active use/charging, and even fully shut down, it'll still so deeply discharge the battery after a week that the bios loses power and unsyncs the hardware clock. It's quite possibly the worst computer I've used in 20 years.
karlshea 3y ago
This all sounds exactly like what I imagined owning a Framework running Linux would be like. I’m sure y’all are having a ball editing all of your configs and doing firmware updates in Windows, but I’ll stick to my non-repairable MacBook and keep Linux on my servers.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  Running Linux on any bleeding edge device is like this. People find issues, fix issues, and then at some point, if the hardware is popular enough, it becomes plug and play.
- starkparker 3y ago
  The Intel Frameworks on Linux have been plug and play for about six months, especially on Fedora 38. Any laptop, and most hardware, is like this. The mess here has been pretty AMD-specific.
- ncallaway 3y ago
  I’ve been running linux (Fedora) on my intel Framework laptop for a little over a year. I’ve had no issues.
  - noirbot 3y ago
    Yea, I've had no issues with the Linux of it really, the hardware is just... bad. It feels cheap, the battery is terrible, having it near any magnet messes up its sensors for if the lid is closed and causes random issues, and the screen is so glossy you essentially can't use it in natural lighting. I guess I could potentially spend the cost of a third Macbook Air on replacing parts to maybe fix all of that and generate as much carbon and e-waste in the process as the sum total of the last decade of my Apple laptops, but that seems like a pyrrhic victory.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    Which Intel Gen? On my 12th gen the brightness keys didn't even work out of the box on Fedora (IIRC they've been working on the fix since 2022). There's also random freezes that you can only fix by tweaking some SSD boot param (but only some SSDs are impacted)
kvark 3y ago
I’m looking forward to solutions with Linux that are vertically integrated. I know System76 is moving in this direction, but Apple will remain the king in this area in the near future. Without vertical integration it’s a mess, no party wants to control the end to end experience and take responsibility.
- holografix 3y ago
  100% agree. At this price point who has the time to debug wifi?!
  - brailsafe 3y ago
    Only the people writing wifi drivers, and students trying to figure out how things work for the novelty.
  - chx 3y ago
    And yet every time I post running Linux on a modern laptop as a daily driver is not a good idea I get heavily downvoted.
    - semiquaver 3y ago
      Complaining about downvotes is a downvotable offense :) (FWIW I agree with you, Linux on laptops is a recipe for pain)
      - bobthecowboy 3y ago
        I've been running my 12th Gen Intel Framework for just over a year (since I got it) with Linux (KDE Neon). Bluetooth, expansion cards, thunderbolt, wifi - literally no issues. I haven't even had to fiddle with it. I use it all day for work (software engineering - lots of VM's and browser tabs) and all evening for Minecraft and movies. When I'm at my desk at home it's plugged in to a Thunderbolt 4 dock driving two monitors and getting Gigabit network speed. Before that I had a brand new Dell XPS 13, which again I had for a little over a year, running KDE Neon. It wasn't used for work as much, but again it worked perfectly fine, including the touch screen I didn't even want on it (okay- a major issue was the battery life, which was atrocious). Neither of these even came with Linux installed.
jadbox 3y ago
Linux overall trackpad support is WAY better now than 5 years ago, but gnome/kde/drivers have room to grow to be as good as Apple. Framework is getting close though to my ideal laptop. The Dell XPS line is also a good linux choice too.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  AFAICT in Fedora there's still no way to change the track pad scroll gesture speed. For me it's super annoying
brosco 3y ago
I've had my Framework 12 over a year now, so maybe I can give some perspective. I had a lot of similar issues (mostly with wifi) running Fedora when I first got it. I also felt like I wasted a lot of time getting it set up and fixing little bugs here and there. But I'm happy to say that after the first two weeks or so, it's been rock solid. The issues I had with wifi were patched pretty quickly, and everything else pretty much just works with the default configuration. The only thing is the battery life is still bad, partly because I have way too much RAM...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  > The only thing is the battery life is still bad, partly because I have way too much RAM... Can you actually tell the difference the RAM quantity has on battery life? I have a different laptop with an older zen 3 part, as well as its cousin with an 11th gen i7. I haven't noticed any change in battery life, going from 32 to 64 GB on the AMD and from 16 to 32 on the Intel.
  - lhl 3y ago
    There's a small impact with larger capacities, but mostly it's memory speed and channels that have the biggest impact. Here's some testing posted in the Framework community forums from a couple years ago: https://community.frame.work/t/battery-life-impact-of-ram-memory-configuration-extra-data/6426 https://community.frame.work/t/battery-life-impact-of-ram-me...
- hifycycyv 3y ago
  Buying a new laptop and running Linux pretty much always requires running mainline kernels for a few weeks or months until things get fixed. Same thing happens for ThinkPad and others.
sva_ 3y ago
I wonder what kind of battery-life Framework users get? I've recently gotten an Elitebook 845 G10 which runs on a Ryzen 7 Pro 7840HS, and battery life was at first shit. The issue was with the BIOS being bugged and not allowing ASPM. After manually activating, I now get around 12-15 hours on a 50Wh battery, depending on use of course. Results still preliminary though, more testing needs to be done. Btw, I chose the Elitebook because it actually features great repairability. Pretty much everything can be swapped out, including memory. I was reluctant to buy HP, mostly due to the reputation they earned with their printer business shenanigans, but so far don't regret the purchase at all. In fact I like this device more and more. Pretty much everything worked out of the box with ArchLinux, except for ASPM, which I was able to fix within a couple hours. edit: Oh and the main motivation behind preferring the Elitebook over the Framework was the price. I mean really? Upgrade to 7840 almost 400 Euro? Lenovo charges like 80 Euro for that. For 1200 Euro I got the aforementioned CPU with a beautiful 120hz, 500nits, 2560x1600 screen, 2x16GB 5600 DDR5 SO-DIMM, 1TB NVME, etc. But it was a student offer.
- bubblethink 3y ago
  I have the 845 g9, and I'm lukewarm about it. It's more to do with AMD than HP, but HP also has a few annoyances. - No insert key - No external display before OS. Can't do luks password over external monitor. - Miscellaneous AMD bugs: vp9 hw decoding broken, s2idle sleep fails occasionally, gets stuck in lowest frequency sometimes, several others that have slowly been fixed on mainline - Battery life is pretty mediocre. 5-6 hours of browsing, 2-3 hours of video.
  - sva_ 3y ago
    The insert key seems to be fn-f10 now. I have to say I don't really ever use it? What do people use it for, if I may ask? I configure everything to use vim-style editing, so maybe that's why. I can't really speak on the display stuff, but I fell like I saw something related to that in the BIOS. Haven't had issues with sleep either, but maybe because I've only been using the machine for 2 days. About the battery, I really wonder if ASPM is off for you as well? It seems to be a common theme among HP Laptops. My battery life nearly doubled when I set it up. What is your output of $ sudo dmesg | grep ASPM (if you use Linux?)
SamuelAdams 3y ago
How does the sound / speaker system compare to a MacBook Pro? In my experience Apple just blows every other manufacturer out of the water with sound quality.
- starkparker 3y ago
  It's not worth comparing. The Frameworks are functional but that's about it.
- pikelet 3y ago
  I was very surprised by the sound coming out of my mother's new iMac.
  - eep_social 3y ago
    Recently changed from a 2012 imac to a m1 air and was similarly blown away by the improvement.
- lhl 3y ago
  According to Notebookcheck, the latest speakers that Framework uses are actually pretty decent, about 85th percentile (MBP16 is 100th percentiled): https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Ryzen-7-7840U-review-So-much-better-than-the-Intel-version.756613.0.html#toc-5 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Ryzen-7-...
teraflop 3y ago
> For modern apps not using Wayland…. full gesture support, fractional scaling, etc doesn’t work. After fixing firefox, I noticed Slack was incredibly fuzzy…. it doesn’t use Wayland. Every time I read stuff like this I feel like a bit of a outlier, because in all the years I've been using Slack, I've never used it as anything other than a web application (despite occasionally being pestered to download the Electron version). I already have a perfectly good browser, what's the point of running another one (with potential compatibility issues) just for Slack?
- qudat 3y ago
  Screen sharing and huddles
  - abhinavk 3y ago
    Browser version can also do both.
    - Sindrehan 3y ago
      Not in Firefox (to my great annoyance)
      - Zardoz84 3y ago
        I use Firefox, and I don't have issues sharing the screen with Discord
        nani8ot 3y ago
        Screen sharing works in Firefox, but sometimes the (terrible) websites/apps only care about Chromium, even though it'd work on Firefox.
- nektro 3y ago
  I'm the same. I only run slack and discord in the browser
Eduard 3y ago
> The only real knock I can give framework on all of this, is having so many fixes in so many places. This. By now, I have set up and maintained enough installations of diverse open / hobbyist products (e.g. Debian, Raspberry Pi, Home Assistant, Mixxx, Jellybean, Nextcloud... ) to come to the conclusion that an unorganized, unmaintained, laissez-fair user community democrized potpourri of "knowledge bases" quickly becomes a huge issue. It sucks to have to hunt around a multitude of issue trackers, wikis, discussion forums, mailing list archives, Gitlab pages, web sites etc. to find solutions. Sometimes, it is comment #297 in some paginated forum thread that helped, as previous nonworking answers in the same thread related to another software release version, using and referencing a different setup implicitly referencing comment #246 a couple of pages before.
- nrp 3y ago
  We publish a compatibility overview and step by step guides for popular distros specifically to avoid that: https://frame.work/linux https://frame.work/linux
  - zackify 3y ago
    I think what would help me a lot more, if I had to do this again, is a specific article only for the amd framework with everything you need to do after. For instance, the fingerprint sensor, it’s a red note on a step, sure, but it’s kind of hard to go through every guide and read all these “if you are on X version of the platform” Compared to knowing you are reading a guide 100% for the platform you have, less stuff in the way that isn’t applicable and less likely to miss important things. Also, there is no knowledge base article at all for flashing red lights and I have to find a forum post to move the foam back into place. Would be good to get a page up with the light codes for red flashing. Even the fingerprint pam setup that is required for use in 1Password and others, is at the bottom of another guide I found in a forum post, might be wrong here but it’s worth noting some of these Love what you’ve been doing overall
    - nrp 3y ago
      Thanks for the feedback! The foam positioning issue you ran into is definitely not good, and I've flagged it to our Supplier Quality Manager.
nrp 3y ago
I'm happy to help answer questions folks have on the product. We (without intending to) ended up being among the first to ship a Ryzen 7040 U-series laptop, which means Linux support is early and depends on having the right kernel version. As others have noted in the comments, we were in a similar place when we were one of the earlier ones on both 12th Gen Intel Core and 13th Gen Intel Core, and both matured rapidly. AMD continues to improve things with each release, and we've sent hardware to folks at Canonical for Ubuntu and Red Hat for Fedora to help speed along the process of having the out of the box experience with popular distros be smooth.
- voltagex_ 3y ago
  Is there any hope for the wifi bugs mentioned in the article? I was trying to avoid reviews like this because I didn't want to be thinking about all the problems instead of looking forward to my new laptop. I am now wondering if I should have gone Intel.
  - zackify 3y ago
    I don’t want to sway people from the WiFi issues. I saw others in the forums without problems. I can definitely say for sure, I ran at least 20 speed tests between it and two phones in the same locations and had much lower bandwidth on it. Hoping this is just an amd issue that will get better.
  - spatterl1ght 3y ago
    i feel like the wifi issues are kind of overblown, i mean 300 down is still blazing fast -- but that is just my usage
    - zackify 3y ago
      Yeah exactly. Like it sucks because I have 6E and it can’t really use it, but it’s only a big deal when transferring large files on my network.
      - 3y ago
semiquaver 3y ago
Power management is where the framework laptops really suffer under Linux. I truly prefer Linux as an OS but my framework goes unused in favor of my MacBook Air because the former simply can’t hold a charge for more than a few days of standby or a few hours of use. I believe it’s the WiFi firmware which is known to have bad power management support on Linux.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  > can’t hold a charge for more than a few days of standby I don't own a Framework, but also have the battery draining for no reason issue on mine. I think the cause is the new "modern standby", where the laptop doesn't actually sleep. Windows mitigates this by switching to hibernation if you leave it "asleep" for a while and unplugged.
  - chpatrick 3y ago
    It might be worth trying the mem_sleep_default=deep kernel parameter
    - vladvasiliu 3y ago
      Yeah, I tried this and a bunch of other things, it ignores them. I also have its cousin, with an 11th gen i7. It actually exposes a choice in one of those parameters, between s3 and s2idle. If I switch it to s3 and attempt to make it sleep, it just hangs. Neither has an option to control this in the BIOS, like some Lenovos do, from what I hear.
- cameronh90 3y ago
  I have a Lenovo X1 running Windows and it dies after a day or so of sleep too, sometimes sooner. As the other poster says, I think this is mostly due to modern chipsets getting rid of S3 and having "modern standby" instead.
  - sphars 3y ago
    Had this happen on my T14. I switched the sleep BIOS setting to Linux to bring back S3 sleep in Windows and stop using modern standby.
darthrupert 3y ago
Apple Silicon Macbooks took laptops a decade to the future, but PCs keep acting like nothing happened. I hope to get a good Linux laptop again some day since the OS and UX are so much better there, but that day isn't here yet.
justinclift 3y ago
> Super bright fingerprint light The workaround I use for this (on other equipment) is a few layers of black electrical tape. If it can't be fixed in software, don't just give up. :)
binkHN 3y ago
> A known problem in the current kernel, sometimes the system freezes for 1-15s at a time... How is this even remotely acceptable?
- fsflover 3y ago
  It's not; they are working on a fix.
  - binkHN 3y ago
    Fair, but there's no ETA and the author is fairly upbeat in his write up, and his system is barely even usable.
theanonymousone 3y ago
Framework's idea looks like a great model for corporate devices. Instead of replacing the whole laptop every X years, they can just incrementally reolace broken/outdated parts. I wish my company adopts this.
Zardoz84 3y ago
> I noticed Slack was incredibly fuzzy…. it doesn’t use Wayland. People should stop using that crappy Electron Apps, that does exactly the same thing that opening a webapp page on a tab of your browser. Seriously, you are wasting RAM and CPU (and battery) doing that. And this it's totally independent of you using Windows, OSX, Linux, BSD... I use Slack and Discord from the web browser, and I don't have any issues. Also, I get fro free, better support of that webapps running in Wayland
- OJFord 3y ago
  Browsers should have a good way of running a kiosked-ish tab in a native-like way then. I don't want to switch to my browser for Slack and then dig through tabs to find it, I want just to switch to Slack.
  - infinityplus1 3y ago
    Just pin the tab to keep it at a fixed place. I pin Gmail and Slack as these are frequently accessed by me.
    - OJFord 3y ago
      I would still have to switch back to it from whatever other tab I was looking at. I don't want to do that. I will continue installing a specific app just for that, even if it didn't have other benefits (which it does: no browser frame, systray icon, native notifications, ...)
gigatexal 3y ago
I couldn’t finish the blog post. It came off as too much of a rant and a bit whiney. Linux != macOS or Windows. Gestures, and all this fancy stuff about fingerprint readers etc do not apply. I guess I’m lucky my thinkpad’s fingerprint reader works. Anyway I’m looking forward to evaluating this laptop vs a similar AMD thinkpad as I’m in the market. I run i3 and will move to sway when I fully transition things to Wayland. Multitouch trackpads and the mouse in general is something I avoid as much as possible. Also re the blog: the full screen modal to sign up to the mailing list before the article was presented is highly hostile to readers and screams desperation. If I like a blog I will read a few posts and then either bookmark it or add it to my rss reader if it has one. I won’t be returning to this blog though.
- lost_tourist 3y ago
  He had a lot of issues besides just the mouse. I think the article was fine, and probably will other people planning on getting the same laptop. There is no way that framework didn't encounter these same problems in their own install. Seems like they could have an Appendix site available for some of the fixes if they couldn't get them due to trying to get the laptop out to customers as soon as possible.
  - gigatexal 3y ago
    Yeah I’ve been meaning to update and fix my original post: low blood sugar, being grumpy makes for a shit take. I don’t fault the author for having issues with the laptop. Framework, like you said, could have done a better job with the Linux support or at least had a page about workarounds or what works and what doesn’t. And while I don’t like overt mailing list or donation requests who am I to fault anyone for wanting patrons or visitors to support or donate to the effort. So to the blog author my apologies.
- zackify 3y ago
  Sorry about the modal.. I think I turned that off. Still getting used to substack
  - 3y ago
pjmlp 3y ago
And the conclusion is just about most GNU/Linux related devices for the last 25 years, with exception of the netbooks golden age with their OEM specific distros.
treffer 3y ago
Running Ubuntu 22.04.1 on a very recent device is not something I would recommend. And it is particularly bad timing. 23.10 was released yesterday, so a new kernel should roll into 22.04 soon. It would also fix most of the software complaints if the auther would have used 23.10. Please save yourself from the hassle of compiling a kernel, especially for Ubuntu (the userspace _expects_ Ubuntu patches, e.g. for apparmor). Pick a distro with a recent release, and for Ubuntu in particular check if you can live with 2 upgrades a year until you reach the next LTS (April of even years, so right now the _next_ upgrade. Worst case is 3 upgrades).
- scns 3y ago
  I'd recommend openSUSE Tumbleweed. Today is the first time in years an update broke something for me. Could use the built in snapshotting to roll back but i think this is a good opportunity to switch to Slowroll to try it out. Can rollback later. https://www.phoronix.com/news/openSUSE-Slowroll https://www.phoronix.com/news/openSUSE-Slowroll
- nijave 3y ago
  Ubuntu probably has some ppas where someone's done that for you with newer kernel versions. I wouldn't necessarily want an LTS distro for new hardware. On the other hand, my Fedora desktop breaks quite a bit from kernel updates (usually amdgpu)
- zackify 3y ago
  I did this because it’s what framework is specifically having us do right now. Using this special oem kernel on 22.04.3
vietvu 3y ago
The idea is nice, but I guess not until the scale is up and production cost come down a bit that the Framework laptop will become more appeal to me. By the time I want to upgrade my laptop, the hardware (CPU/RAM/GPU) would be updated so much that buying a new laptop will be cheaper and more powerful. There is no reason to swap parts.
- ripply 3y ago
  The point of this laptop is that you can upgrade the cpu/gpu. But I would wait a couple of generations for this. I am a gen 1 batch 2 supporter and I stopped using mine after a year when the M2 Air came out. Mine is unusable since it throttles to 200Mhz under load and is difficult for it to recover. That load being normal software development or any game. It now sits running BOINC tasks at 80% CPU because it will throttle if I set it to 100% CPU.
augustl 3y ago
After switching from an 11th gen Intel Dell XPS, to a M1 Macbook, I resist returning to PC laptops (even though I prefer Windows) until someone confirms that newer Ryzen and Intel chips are comparable in terms of "perceived performance" to Apple silicon. The whole laptop simply becomes syrupy on battery. Even if I go high performance mode in Windows settings, the whole device is just so laggy compared to a Macbook. And, in high performance mode, the laptop has probably at _most_ 2 hours of battery life in it. Has this improved since 11th gen Intel?
- inertiatic 3y ago
  I'm on a 6850U Ryzen Windows machine and it's really smooth. Previously I too was using an 11th gen XPS 13 but on Linux, where battery was approximately 2 hours long. This machine feels both smooth, cool and for my usages there's no slowdowns on battery either (usually running few browser windows, a VM that's not taxed too hard and an IDE).
  - augustl 3y ago
    Good to know! I almost wonder if my specific laptop is broken in some way. Either that, or I'm overly sensitive to these things. And the Venn diagram overlap of people who often use both macOS and Windows is probably not that large... :) I don't see many people talking about this!
  - Moldoteck 3y ago
    and how many hours of battery you get on this ryzen?
    - inertiatic 3y ago
      Brand new laptop so haven't got a chance to really get a good sense of an average. I think depending on the workload I got 9-12 hours thus far.
- kohlerm 3y ago
  I tried Ubuntu Linux on a Framework 13th generation intel laptop. Very smooth even on battery. Might be the OS ...
dot5xdev 3y ago
The section on fractional scaling issues wouldn't exist if Framework offered a Linux compatible non HiDPI display. It's a shame for Linux users that they decided to pick a display type that has had known issues for like a decade.
- snorremd 3y ago
  But it is 2023. Things like GTK on Wayland should support fractional scaling. In fact it is already supported by Wayland and is in GTK project's pipeline, but open source software obviously have limited resources. So I think it is fair that people would complain this does not work, but I also understand why it does not. Framework delivering a HiDPI display makes it more future proof. HiDPI displays aren't just a gimmick. HiDPI displays is super helpful when you are short sighted for example as the increased font clarity from a HiDPI display will help you read small text better. The HiDPI display on MacOS and the excellent support for fractional scaling is one of my favourite features of a MacBook and why I wouldn't consider purchasing a "Linux laptop" (e.g. Lenovo or whatever else) before they support this. Different people, different priorities I guess.
MrDresden 3y ago
I'm currently in the queue for one of these, and was expecting there to be some minor issues like these (fingerprint sensor, some driver/kernel related performance issues) as is often the case when running desktop Linux. The difference between Framework and other laptop manufacturers however is that it has shown that it is actively tackling these issues, and so I'm not so worried. Couple that with the fact that components are upgradable, I am not so worried about being let down by this machine once I get it (I won't feel locked in to a unchanging brick). It is still early days for this company and product, so my expectations about a hiccup free experience are tempered (I'm sure the first 80's Machintosh or 90's Thinkpads were less than perfect). My one strong hope though is that this form factor will be able to get a slightly larger battery in the near future.
usrusr 3y ago
The paragraph about keyboard cleaning is interesting. If keyboards are easy to swap/replace, I wonder how long until we see reports about how well (or not!) the framework keyboards hold up in a dishwasher?
ThinkBeat 3y ago
I am pretty surprised how complicated it was to get Limux running. I expected I could circumvent the trouble by ordering the laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled and properly configured and tuned so I could just boot the machine and get to work. Going through the configurator on the website I can't find an option for getting Ubuntu pre-installed. Is this not an option then, or did I miss it?
jjice 3y ago
I'm in batch 7 of this laptop's shipment waves which I expect to actually release mid to late December and it seems like that's a good thing. Still very much looking forward to it, but being super early in the AMD 7040 series releases adds to some stability situations. Overall, I'm not worried about kernel support and compatibility over the next few months, especially as the AMD 7040s release with other manufacturers as well.
Nereuxofficial 3y ago
Honestly the biggest issue with Linux desktop right now is that Xorg is still more compatible and widely used. I tried Wayland on multiple machines and always had trouble when using it on my Laptop with no way to switch between integrated and dedicated Graphics cards(on X i always used optimus-manager which works fine 99% of the time). I can't wait to finally switch to Wayland when those issues are fixed.
sgu999 3y ago
Is there enough margin in a laptop so that these don't end up like Fairphone, with many new generations instead of partial upgrades over the years?
maztaim 3y ago
Fractional scaling works fine for me on Fedora 39. I've had some similar issues as others with amd stability, specifically with fwupd services, glitchy video playback, lots of amdgpu errors in the logs, etc... You can dim the fingerprint reader from the BIOS settings to what I consider acceptable levels, though I hate that blue is the LED color of choice for so many things. I buy stickers to dim them in the office and bedroom. I didn't have problems with the foam that the author did. I did have some initial boot issues where nothing happened for a few attempts. They quickly went away for whatever reason on their own. I can't speak to battery life, my use-case keeps the laptop on power most of the time, so I set the charge percentage to 60% in the BIOS per it's recommendation to save long-term battery health. It's too early to feel like it's a 100% solid, but it's good enough for me to use as the daily driver. I knew what I was getting into when I ordered it. I know it'll get much better within a short time. No intentions of looking back for me. I am very happy with my purchase.

181 points by zackify 3y ago

I just got this device on Monday, been waiting for over half a year for it. I love it, but also wow, so many random things I have had to do the past few days. I think this provides a good prospective compared to all the mainstream posts about it that aren't going in depth on linux and the usability on there at this current time. Overall, I love this device!

pella 3y ago
The testing for Linux will require a few more weeks of delay due to a BIOS issue. "AMD Ryzen Powered Framework Laptop Linux Testing Held Up By BIOS Issue" https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Framework-Linux-Hold https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Framework-Linux-Hold
SamuelAdams 3y ago
Thanks for the article, I thought it was very helpful! You mentioned it a little bit, but is the trackpad better on wayland? How does it compare to a MBP? And finally, can you dock the framework laptop to a USB-C docking station for external monitor support? I haven’t seen a lot of reviews mention this and I’m curious what that looks like today.
- zackify 3y ago
  I just tried plugging into a caldigit dock, and it didn't work. I am not sure why. The env in general uses wayland but certain apps don't. In those apps you don't have good gesture support. I would say its 80-85% as good as a mac trackpad when wayland is on everything
  - pmontra 3y ago
    By the way, what is that "two finger swipe back and forth in a web browser" that you are missing from a Mac? I use the keyboard a lot and the touchpad only to move the pointer and scroll, so I'm pretty ignorant about the matter.
- travisby 3y ago
  I have my amd framework hooked up to a Lenovo 27" monitor over USB c and that daisy chained to another of the same monitor type over display link and it works like a champ: USB, video, Ethernet, and power all through the one cable. Though it did NOT work out of the box to a display link USB A dock. I think it needs display link kernel module and I didn't want to bother.
- gabll 3y ago
  I found that on Debian 12 (13th Intel Framework 13) connecting a 4K external display via HDMI is definitely more stable than USB-C. I also tried some Windows games with Steam Play and HDMI enables higher resolutions on the display (that was not the case with USB-C, I don’t know why).
wesapien 3y ago
Would you have the same experience if some gave you a Thinkpad instead? Seems like most issues are Linux related and non-Linux users would have the most sooprise about having to config/diy/hack/tweak/script something. No?

7e 3y ago

A litany of problems, but the owner likes it anyway. Gadget therapy for the post-modern human.

voltagex_ 3y ago
What tech do you use?

syntaxing 3y ago

If you only can buy this or a M2 MBP, which one would you get?

holografix 3y ago
There’s no doubt in anyone’s mind which laptop is better value for money. People that buy framework laptops buy it out of principle. Repairability, upgradability, openness, Linux support. Etc
- nine_k 3y ago
  Do repairability, upgradability, configurability have zero value?
  - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
    For the typical laptop? I’m going to replace my Mac before I need non-warranty service. I’d say the typical user is in the same boat
  - noirbot 3y ago
    I feel like they either have zero or infinite value. On pure "which laptop would I pick to do a task" it's almost never going to be a Framework. It's objectively a worse laptop for almost all daily tasks. The issue is that repairability and upgradability are, unless you regularly break your computer, at most a once a year occurrence. On that day, you have a better laptop with the Framework (maybe). The other 364, you're dealing with new and novel frustrations you haven't had to deal with for over a decade in computing. Is your value system such that, being able to potentially manually replace a broken part is worth dealing with a bad computer the rest of the time? Just today, I spent 30 minutes just trying to work out how to get my system clock to sync with my hardware clock, and how to get both of them to be accurate, because the Framework's battery management is so abysmal that I have to keep it shut down at all times it's not in active use/charging, and even fully shut down, it'll still so deeply discharge the battery after a week that the bios loses power and unsyncs the hardware clock. It's quite possibly the worst computer I've used in 20 years.

karlshea 3y ago

This all sounds exactly like what I imagined owning a Framework running Linux would be like. I’m sure y’all are having a ball editing all of your configs and doing firmware updates in Windows, but I’ll stick to my non-repairable MacBook and keep Linux on my servers.

NewJazz 3y ago
Running Linux on any bleeding edge device is like this. People find issues, fix issues, and then at some point, if the hardware is popular enough, it becomes plug and play.
starkparker 3y ago
The Intel Frameworks on Linux have been plug and play for about six months, especially on Fedora 38. Any laptop, and most hardware, is like this. The mess here has been pretty AMD-specific.
ncallaway 3y ago
I’ve been running linux (Fedora) on my intel Framework laptop for a little over a year. I’ve had no issues.
- noirbot 3y ago
  Yea, I've had no issues with the Linux of it really, the hardware is just... bad. It feels cheap, the battery is terrible, having it near any magnet messes up its sensors for if the lid is closed and causes random issues, and the screen is so glossy you essentially can't use it in natural lighting. I guess I could potentially spend the cost of a third Macbook Air on replacing parts to maybe fix all of that and generate as much carbon and e-waste in the process as the sum total of the last decade of my Apple laptops, but that seems like a pyrrhic victory.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  Which Intel Gen? On my 12th gen the brightness keys didn't even work out of the box on Fedora (IIRC they've been working on the fix since 2022). There's also random freezes that you can only fix by tweaking some SSD boot param (but only some SSDs are impacted)

kvark 3y ago

I’m looking forward to solutions with Linux that are vertically integrated. I know System76 is moving in this direction, but Apple will remain the king in this area in the near future. Without vertical integration it’s a mess, no party wants to control the end to end experience and take responsibility.

holografix 3y ago
100% agree. At this price point who has the time to debug wifi?!
- brailsafe 3y ago
  Only the people writing wifi drivers, and students trying to figure out how things work for the novelty.
- chx 3y ago
  And yet every time I post running Linux on a modern laptop as a daily driver is not a good idea I get heavily downvoted.
  - semiquaver 3y ago
    Complaining about downvotes is a downvotable offense :) (FWIW I agree with you, Linux on laptops is a recipe for pain)
    - bobthecowboy 3y ago
      I've been running my 12th Gen Intel Framework for just over a year (since I got it) with Linux (KDE Neon). Bluetooth, expansion cards, thunderbolt, wifi - literally no issues. I haven't even had to fiddle with it. I use it all day for work (software engineering - lots of VM's and browser tabs) and all evening for Minecraft and movies. When I'm at my desk at home it's plugged in to a Thunderbolt 4 dock driving two monitors and getting Gigabit network speed. Before that I had a brand new Dell XPS 13, which again I had for a little over a year, running KDE Neon. It wasn't used for work as much, but again it worked perfectly fine, including the touch screen I didn't even want on it (okay- a major issue was the battery life, which was atrocious). Neither of these even came with Linux installed.

jadbox 3y ago

Linux overall trackpad support is WAY better now than 5 years ago, but gnome/kde/drivers have room to grow to be as good as Apple. Framework is getting close though to my ideal laptop. The Dell XPS line is also a good linux choice too.

Rebelgecko 3y ago
AFAICT in Fedora there's still no way to change the track pad scroll gesture speed. For me it's super annoying

brosco 3y ago

I've had my Framework 12 over a year now, so maybe I can give some perspective. I had a lot of similar issues (mostly with wifi) running Fedora when I first got it. I also felt like I wasted a lot of time getting it set up and fixing little bugs here and there. But I'm happy to say that after the first two weeks or so, it's been rock solid. The issues I had with wifi were patched pretty quickly, and everything else pretty much just works with the default configuration. The only thing is the battery life is still bad, partly because I have way too much RAM...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
vladvasiliu 3y ago
> The only thing is the battery life is still bad, partly because I have way too much RAM... Can you actually tell the difference the RAM quantity has on battery life? I have a different laptop with an older zen 3 part, as well as its cousin with an 11th gen i7. I haven't noticed any change in battery life, going from 32 to 64 GB on the AMD and from 16 to 32 on the Intel.
- lhl 3y ago
  There's a small impact with larger capacities, but mostly it's memory speed and channels that have the biggest impact. Here's some testing posted in the Framework community forums from a couple years ago: https://community.frame.work/t/battery-life-impact-of-ram-memory-configuration-extra-data/6426 https://community.frame.work/t/battery-life-impact-of-ram-me...
hifycycyv 3y ago
Buying a new laptop and running Linux pretty much always requires running mainline kernels for a few weeks or months until things get fixed. Same thing happens for ThinkPad and others.

sva_ 3y ago

I wonder what kind of battery-life Framework users get? I've recently gotten an Elitebook 845 G10 which runs on a Ryzen 7 Pro 7840HS, and battery life was at first shit. The issue was with the BIOS being bugged and not allowing ASPM. After manually activating, I now get around 12-15 hours on a 50Wh battery, depending on use of course. Results still preliminary though, more testing needs to be done. Btw, I chose the Elitebook because it actually features great repairability. Pretty much everything can be swapped out, including memory. I was reluctant to buy HP, mostly due to the reputation they earned with their printer business shenanigans, but so far don't regret the purchase at all. In fact I like this device more and more. Pretty much everything worked out of the box with ArchLinux, except for ASPM, which I was able to fix within a couple hours. edit: Oh and the main motivation behind preferring the Elitebook over the Framework was the price. I mean really? Upgrade to 7840 almost 400 Euro? Lenovo charges like 80 Euro for that. For 1200 Euro I got the aforementioned CPU with a beautiful 120hz, 500nits, 2560x1600 screen, 2x16GB 5600 DDR5 SO-DIMM, 1TB NVME, etc. But it was a student offer.

bubblethink 3y ago
I have the 845 g9, and I'm lukewarm about it. It's more to do with AMD than HP, but HP also has a few annoyances. - No insert key - No external display before OS. Can't do luks password over external monitor. - Miscellaneous AMD bugs: vp9 hw decoding broken, s2idle sleep fails occasionally, gets stuck in lowest frequency sometimes, several others that have slowly been fixed on mainline - Battery life is pretty mediocre. 5-6 hours of browsing, 2-3 hours of video.
- sva_ 3y ago
  The insert key seems to be fn-f10 now. I have to say I don't really ever use it? What do people use it for, if I may ask? I configure everything to use vim-style editing, so maybe that's why. I can't really speak on the display stuff, but I fell like I saw something related to that in the BIOS. Haven't had issues with sleep either, but maybe because I've only been using the machine for 2 days. About the battery, I really wonder if ASPM is off for you as well? It seems to be a common theme among HP Laptops. My battery life nearly doubled when I set it up. What is your output of $ sudo dmesg | grep ASPM (if you use Linux?)

SamuelAdams 3y ago

How does the sound / speaker system compare to a MacBook Pro? In my experience Apple just blows every other manufacturer out of the water with sound quality.

starkparker 3y ago
It's not worth comparing. The Frameworks are functional but that's about it.
pikelet 3y ago
I was very surprised by the sound coming out of my mother's new iMac.
- eep_social 3y ago
  Recently changed from a 2012 imac to a m1 air and was similarly blown away by the improvement.
lhl 3y ago
According to Notebookcheck, the latest speakers that Framework uses are actually pretty decent, about 85th percentile (MBP16 is 100th percentiled): https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Ryzen-7-7840U-review-So-much-better-than-the-Intel-version.756613.0.html#toc-5 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Ryzen-7-...

teraflop 3y ago

> For modern apps not using Wayland…. full gesture support, fractional scaling, etc doesn’t work. After fixing firefox, I noticed Slack was incredibly fuzzy…. it doesn’t use Wayland. Every time I read stuff like this I feel like a bit of a outlier, because in all the years I've been using Slack, I've never used it as anything other than a web application (despite occasionally being pestered to download the Electron version). I already have a perfectly good browser, what's the point of running another one (with potential compatibility issues) just for Slack?

qudat 3y ago
Screen sharing and huddles
- abhinavk 3y ago
  Browser version can also do both.
  - Sindrehan 3y ago
    Not in Firefox (to my great annoyance)
    - Zardoz84 3y ago
      I use Firefox, and I don't have issues sharing the screen with Discord
      - nani8ot 3y ago
        Screen sharing works in Firefox, but sometimes the (terrible) websites/apps only care about Chromium, even though it'd work on Firefox.
nektro 3y ago
I'm the same. I only run slack and discord in the browser

Eduard 3y ago

> The only real knock I can give framework on all of this, is having so many fixes in so many places. This. By now, I have set up and maintained enough installations of diverse open / hobbyist products (e.g. Debian, Raspberry Pi, Home Assistant, Mixxx, Jellybean, Nextcloud... ) to come to the conclusion that an unorganized, unmaintained, laissez-fair user community democrized potpourri of "knowledge bases" quickly becomes a huge issue. It sucks to have to hunt around a multitude of issue trackers, wikis, discussion forums, mailing list archives, Gitlab pages, web sites etc. to find solutions. Sometimes, it is comment #297 in some paginated forum thread that helped, as previous nonworking answers in the same thread related to another software release version, using and referencing a different setup implicitly referencing comment #246 a couple of pages before.

nrp 3y ago
We publish a compatibility overview and step by step guides for popular distros specifically to avoid that: https://frame.work/linux https://frame.work/linux
- zackify 3y ago
  I think what would help me a lot more, if I had to do this again, is a specific article only for the amd framework with everything you need to do after. For instance, the fingerprint sensor, it’s a red note on a step, sure, but it’s kind of hard to go through every guide and read all these “if you are on X version of the platform” Compared to knowing you are reading a guide 100% for the platform you have, less stuff in the way that isn’t applicable and less likely to miss important things. Also, there is no knowledge base article at all for flashing red lights and I have to find a forum post to move the foam back into place. Would be good to get a page up with the light codes for red flashing. Even the fingerprint pam setup that is required for use in 1Password and others, is at the bottom of another guide I found in a forum post, might be wrong here but it’s worth noting some of these Love what you’ve been doing overall
  - nrp 3y ago
    Thanks for the feedback! The foam positioning issue you ran into is definitely not good, and I've flagged it to our Supplier Quality Manager.

nrp 3y ago

I'm happy to help answer questions folks have on the product. We (without intending to) ended up being among the first to ship a Ryzen 7040 U-series laptop, which means Linux support is early and depends on having the right kernel version. As others have noted in the comments, we were in a similar place when we were one of the earlier ones on both 12th Gen Intel Core and 13th Gen Intel Core, and both matured rapidly. AMD continues to improve things with each release, and we've sent hardware to folks at Canonical for Ubuntu and Red Hat for Fedora to help speed along the process of having the out of the box experience with popular distros be smooth.

voltagex_ 3y ago
Is there any hope for the wifi bugs mentioned in the article? I was trying to avoid reviews like this because I didn't want to be thinking about all the problems instead of looking forward to my new laptop. I am now wondering if I should have gone Intel.
- zackify 3y ago
  I don’t want to sway people from the WiFi issues. I saw others in the forums without problems. I can definitely say for sure, I ran at least 20 speed tests between it and two phones in the same locations and had much lower bandwidth on it. Hoping this is just an amd issue that will get better.
- spatterl1ght 3y ago
  i feel like the wifi issues are kind of overblown, i mean 300 down is still blazing fast -- but that is just my usage
  - zackify 3y ago
    Yeah exactly. Like it sucks because I have 6E and it can’t really use it, but it’s only a big deal when transferring large files on my network.
    - 3y ago

semiquaver 3y ago

Power management is where the framework laptops really suffer under Linux. I truly prefer Linux as an OS but my framework goes unused in favor of my MacBook Air because the former simply can’t hold a charge for more than a few days of standby or a few hours of use. I believe it’s the WiFi firmware which is known to have bad power management support on Linux.

vladvasiliu 3y ago
> can’t hold a charge for more than a few days of standby I don't own a Framework, but also have the battery draining for no reason issue on mine. I think the cause is the new "modern standby", where the laptop doesn't actually sleep. Windows mitigates this by switching to hibernation if you leave it "asleep" for a while and unplugged.
- chpatrick 3y ago
  It might be worth trying the mem_sleep_default=deep kernel parameter
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    Yeah, I tried this and a bunch of other things, it ignores them. I also have its cousin, with an 11th gen i7. It actually exposes a choice in one of those parameters, between s3 and s2idle. If I switch it to s3 and attempt to make it sleep, it just hangs. Neither has an option to control this in the BIOS, like some Lenovos do, from what I hear.
cameronh90 3y ago
I have a Lenovo X1 running Windows and it dies after a day or so of sleep too, sometimes sooner. As the other poster says, I think this is mostly due to modern chipsets getting rid of S3 and having "modern standby" instead.
- sphars 3y ago
  Had this happen on my T14. I switched the sleep BIOS setting to Linux to bring back S3 sleep in Windows and stop using modern standby.

darthrupert 3y ago

Apple Silicon Macbooks took laptops a decade to the future, but PCs keep acting like nothing happened. I hope to get a good Linux laptop again some day since the OS and UX are so much better there, but that day isn't here yet.

justinclift 3y ago

> Super bright fingerprint light The workaround I use for this (on other equipment) is a few layers of black electrical tape. If it can't be fixed in software, don't just give up. :)

binkHN 3y ago

> A known problem in the current kernel, sometimes the system freezes for 1-15s at a time... How is this even remotely acceptable?

fsflover 3y ago
It's not; they are working on a fix.
- binkHN 3y ago
  Fair, but there's no ETA and the author is fairly upbeat in his write up, and his system is barely even usable.

theanonymousone 3y ago

Framework's idea looks like a great model for corporate devices. Instead of replacing the whole laptop every X years, they can just incrementally reolace broken/outdated parts. I wish my company adopts this.

Zardoz84 3y ago

> I noticed Slack was incredibly fuzzy…. it doesn’t use Wayland. People should stop using that crappy Electron Apps, that does exactly the same thing that opening a webapp page on a tab of your browser. Seriously, you are wasting RAM and CPU (and battery) doing that. And this it's totally independent of you using Windows, OSX, Linux, BSD... I use Slack and Discord from the web browser, and I don't have any issues. Also, I get fro free, better support of that webapps running in Wayland

OJFord 3y ago
Browsers should have a good way of running a kiosked-ish tab in a native-like way then. I don't want to switch to my browser for Slack and then dig through tabs to find it, I want just to switch to Slack.
- infinityplus1 3y ago
  Just pin the tab to keep it at a fixed place. I pin Gmail and Slack as these are frequently accessed by me.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    I would still have to switch back to it from whatever other tab I was looking at. I don't want to do that. I will continue installing a specific app just for that, even if it didn't have other benefits (which it does: no browser frame, systray icon, native notifications, ...)

gigatexal 3y ago

I couldn’t finish the blog post. It came off as too much of a rant and a bit whiney. Linux != macOS or Windows. Gestures, and all this fancy stuff about fingerprint readers etc do not apply. I guess I’m lucky my thinkpad’s fingerprint reader works. Anyway I’m looking forward to evaluating this laptop vs a similar AMD thinkpad as I’m in the market. I run i3 and will move to sway when I fully transition things to Wayland. Multitouch trackpads and the mouse in general is something I avoid as much as possible. Also re the blog: the full screen modal to sign up to the mailing list before the article was presented is highly hostile to readers and screams desperation. If I like a blog I will read a few posts and then either bookmark it or add it to my rss reader if it has one. I won’t be returning to this blog though.

lost_tourist 3y ago
He had a lot of issues besides just the mouse. I think the article was fine, and probably will other people planning on getting the same laptop. There is no way that framework didn't encounter these same problems in their own install. Seems like they could have an Appendix site available for some of the fixes if they couldn't get them due to trying to get the laptop out to customers as soon as possible.
- gigatexal 3y ago
  Yeah I’ve been meaning to update and fix my original post: low blood sugar, being grumpy makes for a shit take. I don’t fault the author for having issues with the laptop. Framework, like you said, could have done a better job with the Linux support or at least had a page about workarounds or what works and what doesn’t. And while I don’t like overt mailing list or donation requests who am I to fault anyone for wanting patrons or visitors to support or donate to the effort. So to the blog author my apologies.
zackify 3y ago
Sorry about the modal.. I think I turned that off. Still getting used to substack
- 3y ago

pjmlp 3y ago

And the conclusion is just about most GNU/Linux related devices for the last 25 years, with exception of the netbooks golden age with their OEM specific distros.

treffer 3y ago

Running Ubuntu 22.04.1 on a very recent device is not something I would recommend. And it is particularly bad timing. 23.10 was released yesterday, so a new kernel should roll into 22.04 soon. It would also fix most of the software complaints if the auther would have used 23.10. Please save yourself from the hassle of compiling a kernel, especially for Ubuntu (the userspace _expects_ Ubuntu patches, e.g. for apparmor). Pick a distro with a recent release, and for Ubuntu in particular check if you can live with 2 upgrades a year until you reach the next LTS (April of even years, so right now the _next_ upgrade. Worst case is 3 upgrades).

scns 3y ago
I'd recommend openSUSE Tumbleweed. Today is the first time in years an update broke something for me. Could use the built in snapshotting to roll back but i think this is a good opportunity to switch to Slowroll to try it out. Can rollback later. https://www.phoronix.com/news/openSUSE-Slowroll https://www.phoronix.com/news/openSUSE-Slowroll
nijave 3y ago
Ubuntu probably has some ppas where someone's done that for you with newer kernel versions. I wouldn't necessarily want an LTS distro for new hardware. On the other hand, my Fedora desktop breaks quite a bit from kernel updates (usually amdgpu)
zackify 3y ago
I did this because it’s what framework is specifically having us do right now. Using this special oem kernel on 22.04.3

vietvu 3y ago

The idea is nice, but I guess not until the scale is up and production cost come down a bit that the Framework laptop will become more appeal to me. By the time I want to upgrade my laptop, the hardware (CPU/RAM/GPU) would be updated so much that buying a new laptop will be cheaper and more powerful. There is no reason to swap parts.

ripply 3y ago
The point of this laptop is that you can upgrade the cpu/gpu. But I would wait a couple of generations for this. I am a gen 1 batch 2 supporter and I stopped using mine after a year when the M2 Air came out. Mine is unusable since it throttles to 200Mhz under load and is difficult for it to recover. That load being normal software development or any game. It now sits running BOINC tasks at 80% CPU because it will throttle if I set it to 100% CPU.

augustl 3y ago

After switching from an 11th gen Intel Dell XPS, to a M1 Macbook, I resist returning to PC laptops (even though I prefer Windows) until someone confirms that newer Ryzen and Intel chips are comparable in terms of "perceived performance" to Apple silicon. The whole laptop simply becomes syrupy on battery. Even if I go high performance mode in Windows settings, the whole device is just so laggy compared to a Macbook. And, in high performance mode, the laptop has probably at _most_ 2 hours of battery life in it. Has this improved since 11th gen Intel?

inertiatic 3y ago
I'm on a 6850U Ryzen Windows machine and it's really smooth. Previously I too was using an 11th gen XPS 13 but on Linux, where battery was approximately 2 hours long. This machine feels both smooth, cool and for my usages there's no slowdowns on battery either (usually running few browser windows, a VM that's not taxed too hard and an IDE).
- augustl 3y ago
  Good to know! I almost wonder if my specific laptop is broken in some way. Either that, or I'm overly sensitive to these things. And the Venn diagram overlap of people who often use both macOS and Windows is probably not that large... :) I don't see many people talking about this!
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  and how many hours of battery you get on this ryzen?
  - inertiatic 3y ago
    Brand new laptop so haven't got a chance to really get a good sense of an average. I think depending on the workload I got 9-12 hours thus far.
kohlerm 3y ago
I tried Ubuntu Linux on a Framework 13th generation intel laptop. Very smooth even on battery. Might be the OS ...

dot5xdev 3y ago

The section on fractional scaling issues wouldn't exist if Framework offered a Linux compatible non HiDPI display. It's a shame for Linux users that they decided to pick a display type that has had known issues for like a decade.

snorremd 3y ago
But it is 2023. Things like GTK on Wayland should support fractional scaling. In fact it is already supported by Wayland and is in GTK project's pipeline, but open source software obviously have limited resources. So I think it is fair that people would complain this does not work, but I also understand why it does not. Framework delivering a HiDPI display makes it more future proof. HiDPI displays aren't just a gimmick. HiDPI displays is super helpful when you are short sighted for example as the increased font clarity from a HiDPI display will help you read small text better. The HiDPI display on MacOS and the excellent support for fractional scaling is one of my favourite features of a MacBook and why I wouldn't consider purchasing a "Linux laptop" (e.g. Lenovo or whatever else) before they support this. Different people, different priorities I guess.

MrDresden 3y ago

I'm currently in the queue for one of these, and was expecting there to be some minor issues like these (fingerprint sensor, some driver/kernel related performance issues) as is often the case when running desktop Linux. The difference between Framework and other laptop manufacturers however is that it has shown that it is actively tackling these issues, and so I'm not so worried. Couple that with the fact that components are upgradable, I am not so worried about being let down by this machine once I get it (I won't feel locked in to a unchanging brick). It is still early days for this company and product, so my expectations about a hiccup free experience are tempered (I'm sure the first 80's Machintosh or 90's Thinkpads were less than perfect). My one strong hope though is that this form factor will be able to get a slightly larger battery in the near future.

usrusr 3y ago

The paragraph about keyboard cleaning is interesting. If keyboards are easy to swap/replace, I wonder how long until we see reports about how well (or not!) the framework keyboards hold up in a dishwasher?

ThinkBeat 3y ago

I am pretty surprised how complicated it was to get Limux running. I expected I could circumvent the trouble by ordering the laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled and properly configured and tuned so I could just boot the machine and get to work. Going through the configurator on the website I can't find an option for getting Ubuntu pre-installed. Is this not an option then, or did I miss it?

jjice 3y ago

I'm in batch 7 of this laptop's shipment waves which I expect to actually release mid to late December and it seems like that's a good thing. Still very much looking forward to it, but being super early in the AMD 7040 series releases adds to some stability situations. Overall, I'm not worried about kernel support and compatibility over the next few months, especially as the AMD 7040s release with other manufacturers as well.

Nereuxofficial 3y ago

Honestly the biggest issue with Linux desktop right now is that Xorg is still more compatible and widely used. I tried Wayland on multiple machines and always had trouble when using it on my Laptop with no way to switch between integrated and dedicated Graphics cards(on X i always used optimus-manager which works fine 99% of the time). I can't wait to finally switch to Wayland when those issues are fixed.

sgu999 3y ago

Is there enough margin in a laptop so that these don't end up like Fairphone, with many new generations instead of partial upgrades over the years?

maztaim 3y ago

Fractional scaling works fine for me on Fedora 39. I've had some similar issues as others with amd stability, specifically with fwupd services, glitchy video playback, lots of amdgpu errors in the logs, etc... You can dim the fingerprint reader from the BIOS settings to what I consider acceptable levels, though I hate that blue is the LED color of choice for so many things. I buy stickers to dim them in the office and bedroom. I didn't have problems with the foam that the author did. I did have some initial boot issues where nothing happened for a few attempts. They quickly went away for whatever reason on their own. I can't speak to battery life, my use-case keeps the laptop on power most of the time, so I set the charge percentage to 60% in the BIOS per it's recommendation to save long-term battery health. It's too early to feel like it's a 100% solid, but it's good enough for me to use as the daily driver. I knew what I was getting into when I ordered it. I know it'll get much better within a short time. No intentions of looking back for me. I am very happy with my purchase.