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REI is Laying Off 275 Employees
- fwungy 3y agoConsumer spending is getting hit hard and luxury campgear is easy to forego.
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoI assume the pandemic’s rush for outdoor entertainment has also fully subsided.
- jeffbee 3y agoLooking at their consolidated annual report dated Dec 31 2022, it does not appear that revenue was an issue. But cost of goods and opex for salaries and G&A were way up, 20%+. Do you have more recent information about their top line or are you speculating?
- zeroCalories 3y agoYou don't even really need gear to camp either.
- justinator 3y agoI'm curious about this opinion, and I don't want to make a snarky joke. Can you elaborate how you camp without needing any gear?
- valleyjo 3y ago“Ultralight” backpacking favors skills rather than gear. Folks have done entire 3k mile thru hikes with 5lbs of gear. The main way you get that low is simply by not taking much with you. You carry only the essentials. I don’t know if this is what the parent poster was referring to but it’s what my mind went to.
- justinator 3y ago5lbs of gear is 5lbs of gear. And this seems like an extreme example - have you done 3k mile thru hikes on 5lbs of gear? What does that look like?
- CottonMcKnight 3y ago5.87 lbs: https://lighterpack.com/r/89huvt https://lighterpack.com/r/89huvt
- justinator 3y agoSure is cheap, but I don't think the weight is correct. For example, the tent in this 880 grams alone (almost 2lbs). The sleeping bag/quilt is 626 grams, or around 1.6 lbs. The backpack is 765 grams or 1.7lbs. So that's 5.3lbs for just those three things. I'm assuming the price of an entire kit will also be more. We haven't even gotten to clothes.
- astr0n0m3r 3y agoWhen I hiked the AT, my backpack was a previous year's model (2006 Camelbak Cloudwalker, I think) that I bought for $35. It's smaller than most daypacks. In fact, it's still the daypack I usually use but sometimes it is too small for day hikes, like in winter. I used a summer sleeping bag that was 14 oz after I cut the zipper off (Marmot Pounder, which I wish they still made). I had a "blue foam" sleeping pad that was cut down to size, which is extremely cheap and light. I now opt for much heavier sleeping pads. When cowboy camping along the AT you do not need much of a sleeping pad because you'll likely be on top of leaves, but on a shelter floor it's not enough. For shelter, I just had a 6 oz sil tarp for when an AT shelter was full and I expected rain. I set up the tarp exactly once, and it didn't rain anyways. My spare clothes were a spare pair of socks, a fleece shirt, fleece gloves, and a fleece beanie. None of those were expensive. I had a $0.99 plastic poncho for rain gear. I did not cook, so no cooking gear. I had a digital camera which I barely used. And then just small stuff like toothbrush, water treatment drops, etc. My base pack weight was like 6 lbs and change, and I had a tarp and camera I wasn't really using. So, yeah, you can hike extremely light and not spend a lot of money. It depends on what trip you are doing. I started very late in the season, so the weather was warmer and shelters were not full.
- myself248 3y agoSteve Wallis is one of my favorite YouTubers lately, and his whole schtick at first was camping with cheap and unconventional gear. Ten bucks of blankets from the thrift store, no tent, for instance. (The blanket fort remains one of my all-time favorite episodes.) Or a tarp and some straps from the hardware store. Or those $0.99 mylar "survival tent" things, what's the experience in one of those actually like? Another classic is the "can you make a tent from bubble wrap and survive in it in the dead of Canadian winter?"... No spoilers, but it's hilarious. I forget which episode he explains it in, but the idea was that he was sick of seeing all the glamping channels with expensive gear in exotic locations, and their implication that camping and being out in nature was somehow a luxury for the rich, when it should be, no, it IS, everyone's to enjoy. From there, his focus grew to the locations themselves. Opposite of exotic. Downright silly. Behind billboards, in a storm drain culvert, in the landscaping in the middle of a suburban roundabout... Not only can you camp without gear, you don't need a campground either.
- zeroCalories 3y agoWhat special gear do you need? For clothing gym clothes work fine, I already have a backpack, a cheap water bottle, etc. For shelter you can car camp, or if it's viable in your area you can cowboy camp with a cheap tarp and quilt. You don't need to over think things, it's not like you're trying to climb Everest.
- steve_adams_86 3y agoEspecially when people bought huge amounts of it during the pandemic.
- pwarner 3y agoConsumer spending is up, rising faster than inflation. Although it is growing more slowly than before. https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/our-insights/the-state-of-the-us-consumer https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/...
- fwungy 3y agoIt's a small upward movement in a larger downward trend. https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/our-insights/the-state-of-the-us-consumer https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/...
- pwarner 3y agoThe large decline is from 30% growth to 2%. 30% is insane post COVID bubble. 2% is normal growth We are going back to normal. Maybe REI hired for the insane bubble continuing?
- unethical_ban 3y agoWow. Interesting discussion there. I have spent a few thousand bucks at rei over the past 10 years. I rarely if ever ask for assistance. The value add for me is the return and warranty policy, and knowing if REI sells it it's probably high quality. The more experienced people are also the most natural and kind, where others seem less committed and less "of the hobby". Layoffs suck. Good luck to all of them.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoOnce one is familiar enough with the brands that REI stocks and that are regarded as quality, nowadays those same brands can be bought, often for much cheaper, from other online retailers. Not with the same generous return policy, but still, it is harder for REI to compete compared to two decades ago when they were the only chain around for quality camping gear.
- justinator 3y ago>nowadays those same brands can be bought, often for much cheaper, from other online retailers. Usually MSRP is constant across retailers. Is there an example you can easily bring up? If there's a price for an item that's too good to be true, it's usually a scam website.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoDifferent online retailers do sales at different times and with different degrees of discount, so if REI is selling an item at MSRP, it could be that a customer can save a great deal by judiciously searching the competition and getting the item from somewhere else. Moreover, when I last shopped heavily from REI a decade ago, it was often claimed in the outdoor community that its prices were inevitably higher than other retailers, but one would enjoy the better return policy, and there was hope of getting money back through the co-op program.
- justinator 3y ago
- geephroh 3y agoOoof...that's a bummer. OP should forward the reddit thread to the Seattle Times.
- astrodust 3y agoA Canadian company in the same space, Mountain Equipment Co-Op, was recently acquired by a hedge fund and is in the process of mutating into a for-profit company, to the dismay of many. https://www.outsideonline.com/business-journal/retailers/mec-sold-to-american-investment-firm/ https://www.outsideonline.com/business-journal/retailers/mec... Is REI being zombified the same way?
- JALTU 3y agoDarn. I have always appreciated MEC...
- evntdrvn 3y agoSame, dang
- notatoad 3y agoFrom what i can tell, MEC is generally doing better after being acquired (and IIRC shutting down some stores). before bankruptcy, their own-brand products were seriously dipping in quality and the stores seemed to be shifting more towards premium athlesiure rather than proper outdoor gear. post bankruptcy they're rebuilding their own-label stuff, and at least in calgary there seems to be more staff in the store and the product mix is shifting back towards stuff i can't find in other local stores.
- andrewflnr 3y agoA co-op being acquired by a hedge fund should not be possible. What the hell?
- refurb 3y agoWhy not? A co-op is just a business owned by it's members. If the members decide to sell (through the board of directors), they it gets sold. "yesterday a unanimous decision by its board of directors to sell substantially all of its assets to Kingswood Capital Management"
- squigz 3y agoWhat is REI?
- loloquwowndueo 3y ago[flagged]
- ddejohn 3y agoA very popular outdoor gear outfitter (camping, hiking, etc) in the US.
- sleepybrett 3y agoMid to high end sporting goods.
- NegativeK 3y agoLarge outdoor goods retail chain in the form of a co-op. They're known for having a very open return policy as well as cash back to anyone who joins their cheap membership things. (Naturally, they're not perfect -- so they're known for putting small shops out of business when they arrive and for becoming more faceless to some of their employees as they grow.)
- prepend 3y ago> They're known for having a very open return policy Sadly not so much. Now it’s a one year limited warranty and I’ve been hassled about returning things because they ended up not fitting right. They used to be great and would take anything back for any reason. And this always led to me buying tons more stuff. With the new policy, I buy much less. Especially since the REI brand is pretty low quality now and no one supports it other than REI during that year.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoWith the old returns policy, people were buying boots, wearing them out on the Appalachian Trail, and then returning them. Or buying a whole touring bike (REI sold their own fairly respectable model called the Novara), riding coast-to-coast, and then returning it. Once the internet era arrived and customers learned just what behavior they could get away with, the community was saying it was only a matter of time before REI would tighten their returns policy.
- pokstad 3y agoA lot of people in that sub say they are part of the layoffs. Maybe they just laid off everyone that goes to that REI subreddit.
- silisili 3y agoI'd hazard a guess most employees voluntarily on a company sub are people who've worked there a while and/or really care - so higher leveled people. And that's who they've seem to have laid off, sadly.
- csharpminor 3y agoThe note to employees indicates the layoff is only about 2% of the company’s workforce so it would appear there’s a good deal of overlap.
- EGreg 3y agoHow socialist is REI really? Are they like Mondragon? Seems not — workers do not own the company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI_worker_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI_worker_organization I like experiments in having employees actually own companies, or make their own decisions, but the closest I see in the consumer facing sector is stuff like REI or Valve software maybe — and that is only at the pleasure of its actual owners. By contrast, HOAs and housing cooperatives like Mitchell-Lama, or credit unions, are truly owned by their members. A growint number of DAOs online are as well. Most universities have an element of democratic governance as well. Other than that, most other concerns is owned by outside shareholders, with some shares often traded on a public stock market, but the ones who call the shots are the same people who sit on each other’s boards and lobby Congress etc.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- vore 3y agoThey might call themselves REI "co-op", but a consumers' cooperative is really the polar opposite of representing the interests of workers. It's really just a shareholder owned company with a few steps removed in the middle.
- hotnfresh 3y agoIn practice, the “co-op” stuff really just amounts to a run of the mill rewards program. I can’t tell any actual difference between it and various other “loyalty program” thingies, aside from that they force you to join it to buy anything from them.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- neilv 3y agoSince (IIUC from Wikipedia) REI is a member-owned co-op that elects the board of directors, does this decision to do layoffs reflect the interests of the members?
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoREI has been a co-op in name only for a number of years now.
- lazide 3y agoAt least a decade IMO.
- marricks 3y ago> Board candidates are selected by the REI Board Nomination and Governance Committee. In earlier years, board elections were competitive elections, with both board-nominated and self-nominated petition candidates. In recent years, REI eliminated the opportunity for petition candidates and has nominated only as many candidates as open positions. Emphasis mine. Sounds like OfSanguineFire's comment is right. The Governance committee decides how the company is run and members don't have a choice of candidates besides rejecting them. From Wikpedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI
- neilv 3y agoThe juxtaposition of these two sentences sounds like a hint at a connection between the two: > While the board serves at the members' pleasure, there is no path to board membership without the approval of the Board Nomination and Governance Committee.[30] For 2014, its chief executive officer received compensation of approximately $2.71 million per year.[31][32]
- dragonwriter 3y ago> The Governance committee decides how the company is run and members don't have a choice of candidates besides rejecting them. And if they are rejected, then the board appoints a temporary board member to fill the opening, with no membership input.
- brownkonas 3y agoWill the member rebate be given this year? I would gladly forgo mine.
- AlchemistCamp 3y agoIs this really important news or at all related to hackers? Much larger layoffs happen all the time. What's the interesting angle of this story?
- prepend 3y agoSo many Patagonia jackets are bought at REI and worn at companies that employ many hackers. I wonder how common it is as a clothier of hackers. For the past few years I think I end up buying a lot of their lightweight hiking pants for travel and office work. And REI is the best store I’ve found to actually go in and check out stuff before buying.
- oldbbsnickname 3y agoHAHAA. ;) This is true, I did acquire some of REI's water containers and blankets when I used to vanlife. The good thing about REI is they often have good bicycle mechanics, but they're encumbered by many corporate regulations. If you're more DIY, you're probably better off going to a local bike shop who can do major things like scooter brake replacements. Anyone not from the US: REI is a fractional employee&customer co-op, brick-and-mortar glamping mecca that also sells sporting goods, hiking gear, and Birkenstocks.
- yieldcrv 3y agovery generous return policy really useful if you have a predilection for camping on the sidewalk
- latchkey 3y ago"Return Every Item"
- iwonthecase 3y agoI would guess that it would be interesting if: 1. It's a sign that the tech layoffs are part of a more general wave of layoffs 2. Most of the layoffs were on their eCommerce platform 3. If there was a blame towards Amazon. Just as an anecdote, I recently bought a whole set of camping gear on Amazon for about a third of the price as REI (and actually for cheaper than their rental rates.) Quality might not be the same, but I don't really need anything heavy duty.
- ApolloFortyNine 3y agoI'm not saying this is the cause of the layoffs, but recently REI instigated a no bags policy (or at least mine did). This isn't the standard buy bags for 10 cents at the register, there quite literally are no bags for sale, unless you decide to buy a backpack. However, their website gives free shipping for $50 and is the same price as in store. One of the most insane and obviously virtue signaling policies I've ever seen. I haven't bothered going in person since, and often these stores live off getting you to buy things you don't need when you go in person.
- nerdbert 3y agoI live in Europe and haven't received a bag from a store in years. Recently visited the USA and they were being foisted on me left and right. I submit that people will adjust to this, I sure have, and that the real solution is for more stores to do it so that it seems normal.
- xattt 3y agoThis became policy in my province for the last few years. The downside has been the dwindling supply of free bags into which I can scoop cat poop.
- somehnguy 3y agoI use cheap diaper bags from Amazon for that. They come in packs of like 100 and are very thin plastic, which I like because it ‘feels’ less wasteful even though it probably makes 0 difference. After an initial adjustment period overall I’ve been happy with NY’s law change on plastic bags at the grocery store. It always bugged me a little bit that we feel the need to put something like a single bag of chips into another bag when you buy it (real thing I witnessed plenty).
- stock_toaster 3y agoTry some of those dog poop bags used while dog walking?
- Mistletoe 3y agoI don’t understand a lot of the comments there in that thread. People with 4 years there acting like they are old time employees that are immune to layoffs? I feel bad for anyone laid off, but is this how we think about long tenure at a company now?
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoAverage tenure at an American company is 2.5 years. 4 years is tenured.
- starcraft2wol 3y agowe are talking about a retail store here. A few months is good retention. Ironically, the ones who have been there 5 years are probably worse than those at 1 year.
- micro_cam 3y agoThe outdoor industry as a whole had a covid boom and upped production/orders. Now it seems a lot of those sales were in a way borrowed from the future and they have a ton of inventory and lagging sales.
- kiernanmcgowan 3y agoFor context, REI employs 15,000 people at ~175 locations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI
- david_shi 3y agoI bought a duffel bag at REI a few weeks ago, and there were visible unionization efforts going on in the store. The tension between the employees and the managers was obvious.
- csharpminor 3y agoObviously this sucks for those impacted, but it’s a relatively small cut (2% of employees). I wouldn’t necessarily read a major culture change at REI from this alone. It seems to be business-as-usual for a company operating at a modest loss in a high interest rate environment. I have mixed feelings here. I’m a longtime REI shopper and I personally haven’t ever interacted with a “team lead” (role laid off). I mostly order online and sometimes browse their used gear section while in store. I rarely talk to the employees, and to be honest the ones at my store seem kind of annoyed most of the time. On the other hand laying off senior team members is a speedrun nuke of employee morale. You’re taking a place where people thought they could work for years and basically showing them there’ll be no career progression.
- black_13 3y ago[dead]
- Supermancho 3y agoREI had a number of layoffs during COVID as well. I recall this, because I failed to secure a position there, when interviewing for a number of companies...and then they there was a massive REI layoff. I landed in a much better place, imo.
- alex_young 3y agoSerious question - what is REI? I know there are all of these sporting goods stores, but it’s supposedly a co-op owned by the members, of which a sizable population of this country are, yet the board is not in any meaningful way elected or nominated by the membership. REI is a really interesting company. Kinda seems like someone stole a co-op a while back.
- granzymes 3y agoThe REI legal entity is indeed still a member owned cooperative. But there are so many members today that there isn’t any practical control that any individual can exercise. That said, if you are a member then you have a vote for the board members. You can read about the election process here: https://www.rei.com/about-rei/board-election-process https://www.rei.com/about-rei/board-election-process
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]