7 ms·

You can't currently download Ubuntu 23.10

90 points by jamesponddotco 3y ago

ReactiveJelly 3y ago
Summary: Last-minute strings patch, it'll be up soon
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
d_white 3y ago
Looks like these were translations provide through a third-party platform. Pretty tricky to review when you've handed off the responsibility. I wonder how Weblate actually manages quality control in practice? This seems like a pretty bad advertisement for the platform.
o11c 3y ago
What with the difficulty of manually verifying translations of numerous languages that you don't understand ... I can't help but wonder if tooling could at least help check the degree of difference between previous releases and the current release.
- koyote 3y ago
  > I can't help but wonder if tooling could at least help check the degree of difference between previous releases and the current release. Or run the translated text through Google Translate (or similar) and have someone do a quick sanity check?
  - scns 3y ago
    > (or similar) Have made experiences with DeepL
  - dylan604 3y ago
    If you were willing to do that, why not just start there in the first place?
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      Subpar results; it's harder to translate than to check a translation.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      Sometimes they really mess things up when there’s little context. A few basic examples: “file” in English is both a verb and a noun, but other languages have different words for each. The machine translator will just guess at presenting you the noun or verb. Other languages have genders for everything, so if a computer is male, but a standalone sentence doesn’t know that, the translator has to take a guess. If it guesses wrong, the sentence will be confusing to the user that thinks it’s about something other than a computer. That’s just scratching the surface.
      - pests 3y ago
        This recently was an issue for zip files in UK Windows (or something) being translated as "post code files"
        debugnik 3y ago
        Reminds me of a mistake in Spanish in a TomTom device I have around: "AP" stands for autopista (motorway) but it reads "AP" aloud as apartado postal (PO box).
        Scoundreller 3y ago
        Have had some satnav apps when set in French translate “dr” in an Anglo street name as “docteur” instead of reading it as “drive”. Just because I set the language to something foreign, it doesn’t mean I’m in that country with its street naming conventions.
    - 3y ago
- remram 3y ago
  You can't compare if they are new strings.
- ccooffee 3y ago
  It's a VERY time-consuming process to do a thorough review of localization materials. I've spent multiple working days on single massive commits when working with an unreliable translation provider. I can absolutely believe that someone glanced at the diff (linked elsewhere in this HN thread) at thought "that looks good enough". It wasn't a very large diff, and didn't do anything that reviewers will be keyed for (bizarre punctuation, formatting errors, incorrect captured variable references, etc). Offensive localization strings is not a threat I'd considered when I did my work. I doubt the reviewers of this repo thought it was a concern.
nneonneo 3y ago
The patch that deletes the offending translation file: https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/pull/170/commits/01b9616a7472a08434ead9e046e9f9b02514ab8a https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/pull/1... One of the commits that added the offensive language: https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit/29069dbbd345b76ca75d0977952cd4716d414f85 https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit... It seems like the vandal made a test edit three weeks ago, perhaps to see if anyone was paying attention: https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit/c75736c198b465fa21c63b33dd058d8fd1f4980a https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit.... This is followed up with two, more extensive edits made a few days ago. I kinda wish they’d just reverted the commits rather than nuking the entire translation. Perhaps a Ukrainian speaker could help them get the translation back into a good shape?
- Tao3300 3y ago
  Offline warning: "Your pants aren't off yet" I can't vouch for the rest of them and a couple seemed to be veering into anti-Semitic territory, but that one got a neckbeardy chuckle out of me.
  - FFP999 3y ago
    [dead]
- maltalex 3y ago
  > "minimalInstallationTitle": "Класичний гейський секс" Google Translate: "Classic Gay Sex" > "minimalInstallationSubtitle": "Лише найнеобхідніше, обрізані єлдаки і єврейська порнографія.", Google Translate: "Just the bare essentials, circumcised eldaks and Jewish pornography." Right.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    What did they mean by this?
    - 3y ago
snvzz 3y ago
I sure hope it'll be called 23.10.1. For you can't have two versions with the same version number. That'd be more offensive than the translation.
- autoexec 3y ago
  maybe not more offensive, but bad.
- callalex 3y ago
  Ubuntu’s backwards-date versioning system is offensive enough on its own.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Why? It sorts so nicely!
    - naruhodo 3y ago
      But what about the 2100 problem?!?
      - toast0 3y ago
        100.3 or whatever
      - Daviey 3y ago
        Ubuntu wouldn't be the first product to change their versioning system for releases. I don't think we need to get too worried about what will happen in 76 years from now.
        red-iron-pine 3y ago
        yeah just rebaseline it for something big and different. Ubuntu NT 1.1
josephcsible 3y ago
Seeing this slip through makes me worry that something more serious could slip through too, e.g., swapping "Allow" and "Deny" on some security-sensitive prompt.
- autoexec 3y ago
  yeah, I get that there'll naturally be fewer people able to double check some languages, but it sounds like online translators would have caught this. Words that wouldn't stand out so clearly might slip by a lot easier even if someone went through the trouble to copy/paste the text into babelfish.com
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  I'd like to think that bad/naughty/wrong translations of phrases might be hard to catch with automated testing, but changes that would actually leave an install broken or vulnerable would be more likely to be detected... I hope...
redder23 3y ago
[flagged]
olgeni 3y ago
All the endless babbling about code reviews, yet here we are.
lost_tourist 3y ago
I'm glad they're doing the right thing and postponing release. If you really want it I assume you can download an RC or something.
Tiberium 3y ago
If anyone is interested in the contents, it's anti-Semitism (related to the current world events) added in the Ukrainian translation https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit/01b9616a7472a08434ead9e046e9f9b02514ab8a https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit...
- ghusto 3y ago
  Seems more like random Palestinian and Hebrew centric obscenity. Maybe it _is_ anti-Semitic, but seems too weird and purposeless to me.
ghusto 3y ago
Seems more like random Palestinian and Hebrew centric obscenity. Maybe it _is_ anti-Semitic, but seems too weird and purposeless to me. I admit I might be missing something in this case, but it seems like anything involving ethnicity + rudeness is automatically labelled hate-speech nowadays.
- sdfghswe 3y ago
  It's not purposeless. This would be used by pro-Russian propaganda to point and say "see, Ukraine is full of nazis, that's why we have to go in and kill everybody". This is Russian propaganda at work.

ReactiveJelly 3y ago

Summary: Last-minute strings patch, it'll be up soon

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

d_white 3y ago

Looks like these were translations provide through a third-party platform. Pretty tricky to review when you've handed off the responsibility. I wonder how Weblate actually manages quality control in practice? This seems like a pretty bad advertisement for the platform.

o11c 3y ago

What with the difficulty of manually verifying translations of numerous languages that you don't understand ... I can't help but wonder if tooling could at least help check the degree of difference between previous releases and the current release.

koyote 3y ago
> I can't help but wonder if tooling could at least help check the degree of difference between previous releases and the current release. Or run the translated text through Google Translate (or similar) and have someone do a quick sanity check?
- scns 3y ago
  > (or similar) Have made experiences with DeepL
- dylan604 3y ago
  If you were willing to do that, why not just start there in the first place?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    Subpar results; it's harder to translate than to check a translation.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Sometimes they really mess things up when there’s little context. A few basic examples: “file” in English is both a verb and a noun, but other languages have different words for each. The machine translator will just guess at presenting you the noun or verb. Other languages have genders for everything, so if a computer is male, but a standalone sentence doesn’t know that, the translator has to take a guess. If it guesses wrong, the sentence will be confusing to the user that thinks it’s about something other than a computer. That’s just scratching the surface.
    - pests 3y ago
      This recently was an issue for zip files in UK Windows (or something) being translated as "post code files"
      - debugnik 3y ago
        Reminds me of a mistake in Spanish in a TomTom device I have around: "AP" stands for autopista (motorway) but it reads "AP" aloud as apartado postal (PO box).
        Scoundreller 3y ago
        Have had some satnav apps when set in French translate “dr” in an Anglo street name as “docteur” instead of reading it as “drive”. Just because I set the language to something foreign, it doesn’t mean I’m in that country with its street naming conventions.
  - 3y ago
remram 3y ago
You can't compare if they are new strings.
ccooffee 3y ago
It's a VERY time-consuming process to do a thorough review of localization materials. I've spent multiple working days on single massive commits when working with an unreliable translation provider. I can absolutely believe that someone glanced at the diff (linked elsewhere in this HN thread) at thought "that looks good enough". It wasn't a very large diff, and didn't do anything that reviewers will be keyed for (bizarre punctuation, formatting errors, incorrect captured variable references, etc). Offensive localization strings is not a threat I'd considered when I did my work. I doubt the reviewers of this repo thought it was a concern.

nneonneo 3y ago

The patch that deletes the offending translation file: https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/pull/170/commits/01b9616a7472a08434ead9e046e9f9b02514ab8a https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/pull/1... One of the commits that added the offensive language: https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit/29069dbbd345b76ca75d0977952cd4716d414f85 https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit... It seems like the vandal made a test edit three weeks ago, perhaps to see if anyone was paying attention: https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit/c75736c198b465fa21c63b33dd058d8fd1f4980a https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit.... This is followed up with two, more extensive edits made a few days ago. I kinda wish they’d just reverted the commits rather than nuking the entire translation. Perhaps a Ukrainian speaker could help them get the translation back into a good shape?

Tao3300 3y ago
Offline warning: "Your pants aren't off yet" I can't vouch for the rest of them and a couple seemed to be veering into anti-Semitic territory, but that one got a neckbeardy chuckle out of me.
- FFP999 3y ago
  [dead]
maltalex 3y ago
> "minimalInstallationTitle": "Класичний гейський секс" Google Translate: "Classic Gay Sex" > "minimalInstallationSubtitle": "Лише найнеобхідніше, обрізані єлдаки і єврейська порнографія.", Google Translate: "Just the bare essentials, circumcised eldaks and Jewish pornography." Right.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  What did they mean by this?
  - 3y ago

snvzz 3y ago

I sure hope it'll be called 23.10.1. For you can't have two versions with the same version number. That'd be more offensive than the translation.

autoexec 3y ago
maybe not more offensive, but bad.
callalex 3y ago
Ubuntu’s backwards-date versioning system is offensive enough on its own.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Why? It sorts so nicely!
  - naruhodo 3y ago
    But what about the 2100 problem?!?
    - toast0 3y ago
      100.3 or whatever
    - Daviey 3y ago
      Ubuntu wouldn't be the first product to change their versioning system for releases. I don't think we need to get too worried about what will happen in 76 years from now.
      - red-iron-pine 3y ago
        yeah just rebaseline it for something big and different. Ubuntu NT 1.1

josephcsible 3y ago

Seeing this slip through makes me worry that something more serious could slip through too, e.g., swapping "Allow" and "Deny" on some security-sensitive prompt.

autoexec 3y ago
yeah, I get that there'll naturally be fewer people able to double check some languages, but it sounds like online translators would have caught this. Words that wouldn't stand out so clearly might slip by a lot easier even if someone went through the trouble to copy/paste the text into babelfish.com
blacksmith_tb 3y ago
I'd like to think that bad/naughty/wrong translations of phrases might be hard to catch with automated testing, but changes that would actually leave an install broken or vulnerable would be more likely to be detected... I hope...

redder23 3y ago

[flagged]

olgeni 3y ago

All the endless babbling about code reviews, yet here we are.

lost_tourist 3y ago

I'm glad they're doing the right thing and postponing release. If you really want it I assume you can download an RC or something.

Tiberium 3y ago

If anyone is interested in the contents, it's anti-Semitism (related to the current world events) added in the Ukrainian translation https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit/01b9616a7472a08434ead9e046e9f9b02514ab8a https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/commit...

ghusto 3y ago
Seems more like random Palestinian and Hebrew centric obscenity. Maybe it _is_ anti-Semitic, but seems too weird and purposeless to me.

ghusto 3y ago

Seems more like random Palestinian and Hebrew centric obscenity. Maybe it _is_ anti-Semitic, but seems too weird and purposeless to me. I admit I might be missing something in this case, but it seems like anything involving ethnicity + rudeness is automatically labelled hate-speech nowadays.

sdfghswe 3y ago
It's not purposeless. This would be used by pro-Russian propaganda to point and say "see, Ukraine is full of nazis, that's why we have to go in and kill everybody". This is Russian propaganda at work.