3 ms·

Oof! Thank you for sharing that. This is one of the reasons that smart bulbs and the like are generally bad - you never want a situation where the switch doesn

by dgacmu 3y ago

Oof! Thank you for sharing that. This is one of the reasons that smart bulbs and the like are generally bad - you never want a situation where the switch doesn't just act like a switch. Smart houses should be designed from the perspective of remaining identical to use when the smarts go away. And if there's weird behavior it should all stop if you unplug the hub or controller. I generally like in-wall smart switches but even there they tend to die faster than dumb switches, so you may be leaving your survivors a bunch of calls to an electrician.

petsfed 3y ago
I feel like "if your internet-connected X doesn't do regular internet-less X-things without the internet, its not an X" should be the core axiom of IoT design.
- ncallaway 3y ago
  Yep, my goals are largely two-fold: - "Everything 'smart' must continue to function if the internet is disconnected" - "Everything 'smart' must fall-back to normal 'dumb' operation if the automation server is not available"
  - harry8 3y ago
    >- "Everything 'smart' must fall-back to normal 'dumb' operation ...immediately, every single time the occupant wants it to do that. Regardless of the state of any other component.
itslennysfault 3y ago
The default on Hue bulbs is to reset to mid-bright white when first turned on. This means whenever you flip the switch on the light turns on, and obviously if you turn the switch off the light turns off. So, they essentially do let the switch be a switch by default.
user_7832 3y ago
> This is one of the reasons that smart bulbs and the like are generally bad - you never want a situation where the switch doesn't just act like a switch. Depends on your devices, but I have (Philips?) smart bulbs that can be turned on/off "regularly", but keep it on and you can control it via google home.
function_seven 3y ago
80% of my lights are smart bulbs rather than switches, and I agree with your take here. In my house I have the smarts in the switch itself wherever possible, but so much of my lighting is from floor and table lamps (that aren't plugged into switched outlets). In those cases, the bulb is the only thing I can "smarten", and it still will work via the stem on the lamp itself if the HA box goes away. The main drawback is that this means I have to have the bulbs set to light up after power is restored. A middle-of-the-night power outage is fun when the entire house lights up at 3am :) I've done a few new installs of lighting in my garage, driveway, and patio. Because that was "greenfield" work, I got to put smart switches in. If I ever rewire this house, I'll use that opportunity to do some more.
- brewdad 3y ago
  Have you looked at smart plugs? I have a few lamps in my home plugged into them and the automation works fine. I have a couple spares I store with the Xmas stuff so that the lights can be automated once the decorations are up. I use Kasa (TP-Link) plugs but there are a bunch of different brands.
  - function_seven 3y ago
    I have, yeah. A couple years ago I got a bunch of Tasmota-flashable ones, and I use them for the coffeemaker, a couple stereos, and one table lamp. Oh yeah, and the christmas lights. :) My issue with those is that they fail the "normal person" test. A normal person will try to turn on a lamp and it will never work because the smart plug is off. But with a smart bulb, it'll come on after they twist the stem a couple times. (And it never gets noticed! People are used to 3-way style lamp sockets needing a couple clicks to turn regular bulbs on and off, so they don't really notice that they had to double twist the stem to get the light to turn on)
    - briHass 3y ago
      Of course, now you have the opposite problem: someone turns the bulb off with the lamp knob (unaware of/irritated with its smart features), and now it's unresponsive with all smart controls. The best compromise are smart switches. Switch still manually controls the light, and smart features are always available. The downsides are that the lamp's outlet must have switch wiring, and smart switches aren't like normal toggles: they're more like push buttons so the switch isn't in a strange physical state.

by dgacmu 3y ago

petsfed 3y ago

I feel like "if your internet-connected X doesn't do regular internet-less X-things without the internet, its not an X" should be the core axiom of IoT design.

ncallaway 3y ago
Yep, my goals are largely two-fold: - "Everything 'smart' must continue to function if the internet is disconnected" - "Everything 'smart' must fall-back to normal 'dumb' operation if the automation server is not available"
- harry8 3y ago
  >- "Everything 'smart' must fall-back to normal 'dumb' operation ...immediately, every single time the occupant wants it to do that. Regardless of the state of any other component.

itslennysfault 3y ago

The default on Hue bulbs is to reset to mid-bright white when first turned on. This means whenever you flip the switch on the light turns on, and obviously if you turn the switch off the light turns off. So, they essentially do let the switch be a switch by default.

user_7832 3y ago

> This is one of the reasons that smart bulbs and the like are generally bad - you never want a situation where the switch doesn't just act like a switch. Depends on your devices, but I have (Philips?) smart bulbs that can be turned on/off "regularly", but keep it on and you can control it via google home.

function_seven 3y ago

80% of my lights are smart bulbs rather than switches, and I agree with your take here. In my house I have the smarts in the switch itself wherever possible, but so much of my lighting is from floor and table lamps (that aren't plugged into switched outlets). In those cases, the bulb is the only thing I can "smarten", and it still will work via the stem on the lamp itself if the HA box goes away. The main drawback is that this means I have to have the bulbs set to light up after power is restored. A middle-of-the-night power outage is fun when the entire house lights up at 3am :) I've done a few new installs of lighting in my garage, driveway, and patio. Because that was "greenfield" work, I got to put smart switches in. If I ever rewire this house, I'll use that opportunity to do some more.

brewdad 3y ago
Have you looked at smart plugs? I have a few lamps in my home plugged into them and the automation works fine. I have a couple spares I store with the Xmas stuff so that the lights can be automated once the decorations are up. I use Kasa (TP-Link) plugs but there are a bunch of different brands.
- function_seven 3y ago
  I have, yeah. A couple years ago I got a bunch of Tasmota-flashable ones, and I use them for the coffeemaker, a couple stereos, and one table lamp. Oh yeah, and the christmas lights. :) My issue with those is that they fail the "normal person" test. A normal person will try to turn on a lamp and it will never work because the smart plug is off. But with a smart bulb, it'll come on after they twist the stem a couple times. (And it never gets noticed! People are used to 3-way style lamp sockets needing a couple clicks to turn regular bulbs on and off, so they don't really notice that they had to double twist the stem to get the light to turn on)
  - briHass 3y ago
    Of course, now you have the opposite problem: someone turns the bulb off with the lamp knob (unaware of/irritated with its smart features), and now it's unresponsive with all smart controls. The best compromise are smart switches. Switch still manually controls the light, and smart features are always available. The downsides are that the lamp's outlet must have switch wiring, and smart switches aren't like normal toggles: they're more like push buttons so the switch isn't in a strange physical state.