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You can't copyright a dress, but there's still a fashion industry: https://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture/transcript htt

You can't copyright a dress, but there's still a fashion industry: https://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture/transcript https://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashi...

pbhjpbhj 3y ago
>can't copyright a dress // That seems highly unlikely to me. What seems most likely is that it's hard to pass the distinctiveness bar for a dress. Unless you mean "for the fabric shape of a dress alone"? In which case you can get a design patent/registered design.
- haroldp 3y ago
  > That seems highly unlikely to me. I mean, I provided a reference for my claim.
  - pbhjpbhj 3y ago
    I'm not sure a person making assertions counts as a reference. I only skimmed the transcript but spotted a couple of errors, this person doesn't appear to be an IPR expert? Also, I don't feel this is going to get anywhere, the space of "nuance of legislation across all jurisdictions in the World" isn't really conducive to casual conversation. That said, in the UK our caselaw on fashion is almost nonexistent, but the key rulings are well summarised in [0] at page 8. The bar is high but seems attainable. (A summary of Hensher v Restawhile [1]). An opinion piece at WIPO [2] suggests it's easier to get copyright on garments in USA, they cite some law, at least, but their conclusion on UK law opposes my position (paraphrasing, they say "garments can't be protected"). My position has not changed. [0] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606207/160408_guidance_s52_final_web_accessible.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [1] https://www.cipil.law.cam.ac.uk/virtual-museum/hensher-v-restawile-1976-ac-64 https://www.cipil.law.cam.ac.uk/virtual-museum/hensher-v-res... [2] https://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2014/03/article_0007.html https://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2014/03/article_0007.h...
- noja 3y ago
  Look at Zara's business model.
robertlagrant 3y ago
You can't copyright it, but you can get design protection.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
You actually can. There have been a ton of fashion lawsuits over copyright, and other IP laws like design patents. Here's a couple: https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/business/shein-rico-lawsuit/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/business/shein-rico-lawsuit/i... https://gouchevlaw.com/fashion-designer-roberto-cavalli-sued-copyright-infringement-street-artists/ https://gouchevlaw.com/fashion-designer-roberto-cavalli-sued... https://www.lofficielusa.com/politics-culture/fashion-lawsuits-gucci-guess https://www.lofficielusa.com/politics-culture/fashion-lawsui...
- haroldp 3y ago
  > https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/business/shein-rico-lawsuit/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/business/shein-rico-lawsuit/i... These are graphic designers alleging that someone copied their exact fabric print design. > https://gouchevlaw.com/fashion-designer-roberto-cavalli-sued-copyright-infringement-street-artists/ https://gouchevlaw.com/fashion-designer-roberto-cavalli-sued... These are muralists that claim someone copied their murals as fabric print designs. > https://www.lofficielusa.com/politics-culture/fashion-lawsuits-gucci-guess https://www.lofficielusa.com/politics-culture/fashion-lawsui... This summarizes a bunch of fashion lawsuits including, someone selling NFTs of someone else's handbags, Adidas suing someone making track pants with Adidas-style vertical stripes (which seems like a trademark violation but Adidas lost), Staging a fashion show that blocked someone else's store, one brand buying a lot of stock in another brand, The Hell's Angels suing someone for using their logo, someone getting fired for being an anti-semite, and a couple of counterfeit shoe law suits. Zero of these even suggest that fashion designers may claim that the shape and style of a dress or other garment that they create is their intellectual property and they have a monopoly on its duplication. Because you can not copyright a dress. If you have more links, it is your turn to read them first.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    > These are graphic designers alleging that someone copied their exact fabric print design. And why do you think this somehow doesn't apply to the topic under discussion?? Edit: here are two more, https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/versace-fashion-nova-sew-up-dress-copying-dispute-shortly-before-trial-2021-07-16/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/versace-fashion-... and https://consumerist.com/2008/01/25/diane-von-furstenberg-sues-target-for-copyright-infringement/ https://consumerist.com/2008/01/25/diane-von-furstenberg-sue..., but I'm sure you'll try to argue that the specifics aren't what you had in your head...

pbhjpbhj 3y ago

>can't copyright a dress // That seems highly unlikely to me. What seems most likely is that it's hard to pass the distinctiveness bar for a dress. Unless you mean "for the fabric shape of a dress alone"? In which case you can get a design patent/registered design.

haroldp 3y ago
> That seems highly unlikely to me. I mean, I provided a reference for my claim.
- pbhjpbhj 3y ago
  I'm not sure a person making assertions counts as a reference. I only skimmed the transcript but spotted a couple of errors, this person doesn't appear to be an IPR expert? Also, I don't feel this is going to get anywhere, the space of "nuance of legislation across all jurisdictions in the World" isn't really conducive to casual conversation. That said, in the UK our caselaw on fashion is almost nonexistent, but the key rulings are well summarised in [0] at page 8. The bar is high but seems attainable. (A summary of Hensher v Restawhile [1]). An opinion piece at WIPO [2] suggests it's easier to get copyright on garments in USA, they cite some law, at least, but their conclusion on UK law opposes my position (paraphrasing, they say "garments can't be protected"). My position has not changed. [0] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606207/160408_guidance_s52_final_web_accessible.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [1] https://www.cipil.law.cam.ac.uk/virtual-museum/hensher-v-restawile-1976-ac-64 https://www.cipil.law.cam.ac.uk/virtual-museum/hensher-v-res... [2] https://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2014/03/article_0007.html https://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2014/03/article_0007.h...
noja 3y ago
Look at Zara's business model.

robertlagrant 3y ago

You can't copyright it, but you can get design protection.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

You actually can. There have been a ton of fashion lawsuits over copyright, and other IP laws like design patents. Here's a couple: https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/business/shein-rico-lawsuit/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/business/shein-rico-lawsuit/i... https://gouchevlaw.com/fashion-designer-roberto-cavalli-sued-copyright-infringement-street-artists/ https://gouchevlaw.com/fashion-designer-roberto-cavalli-sued... https://www.lofficielusa.com/politics-culture/fashion-lawsuits-gucci-guess https://www.lofficielusa.com/politics-culture/fashion-lawsui...

haroldp 3y ago
> https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/business/shein-rico-lawsuit/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/business/shein-rico-lawsuit/i... These are graphic designers alleging that someone copied their exact fabric print design. > https://gouchevlaw.com/fashion-designer-roberto-cavalli-sued-copyright-infringement-street-artists/ https://gouchevlaw.com/fashion-designer-roberto-cavalli-sued... These are muralists that claim someone copied their murals as fabric print designs. > https://www.lofficielusa.com/politics-culture/fashion-lawsuits-gucci-guess https://www.lofficielusa.com/politics-culture/fashion-lawsui... This summarizes a bunch of fashion lawsuits including, someone selling NFTs of someone else's handbags, Adidas suing someone making track pants with Adidas-style vertical stripes (which seems like a trademark violation but Adidas lost), Staging a fashion show that blocked someone else's store, one brand buying a lot of stock in another brand, The Hell's Angels suing someone for using their logo, someone getting fired for being an anti-semite, and a couple of counterfeit shoe law suits. Zero of these even suggest that fashion designers may claim that the shape and style of a dress or other garment that they create is their intellectual property and they have a monopoly on its duplication. Because you can not copyright a dress. If you have more links, it is your turn to read them first.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > These are graphic designers alleging that someone copied their exact fabric print design. And why do you think this somehow doesn't apply to the topic under discussion?? Edit: here are two more, https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/versace-fashion-nova-sew-up-dress-copying-dispute-shortly-before-trial-2021-07-16/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/versace-fashion-... and https://consumerist.com/2008/01/25/diane-von-furstenberg-sues-target-for-copyright-infringement/ https://consumerist.com/2008/01/25/diane-von-furstenberg-sue..., but I'm sure you'll try to argue that the specifics aren't what you had in your head...