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Apple patents suggest future AirPods could monitor biosignals and brain activity
- an_aparallel 3y agothe general population, and surprisingly a lot of tech heads dont care about the implications of brain wave activity, linked to your identity - phoning home to a corporation of google's size? we're one thought away for being thrown into jail for shower thoughts that go slightly the wrong side of "publicly acceptable". i think ALL of this technology is incredibly cool and exciting, BUT - my excitement is hampered by the internets current panopticapitalism/surveillance economy. Asking for "government to step in" as i often hear is pretty funny, seeing as what Snowden has shown us...it is often they who are lobbying for increased and tighter surveillance.... /sad.
- omscs99 3y ago> we're one thought away for being thrown into jail for shower thoughts that go slightly the wrong side of "publicly acceptable". Not really. That’s like being laughed at for being naked at a nudist camp. If nobody has privacy, all of those little thoughts become public and the perception of what’s acceptable shifts In a weird way privacy is a double edged sword and necessitates its own existence I think, in general, we’d be a lot more sane as a society if we held back less from one another
- an_aparallel 3y agoexcept what we're talking about here is corporate bodies with algorhythms automating prejudice, and leveraging risk... a very different thing to sharing with one another isnt it?
- omscs99 3y agoWell yes, I was talking about a different hypothetical :)
- thfuran 3y ago>Not really. That’s like being laughed at for being naked at a nudist camp. If nobody has privacy, all of those little thoughts become public and the perception of what’s acceptable shifts No, it just means that anyone can be destroyed if they offend the keeper of the data.
- snapcaster 3y agoI can't help but assume that people like you who don't value privacy have never had someone trying to hurt you
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- justinclift 3y agoFor all new employees, collect your assigned Apple laptop and Apple TruthPods at HR before proceeding to your floor.
- karim79 3y agoFor years, I've dreamed of a gadget that would interrupt me, but only do so once my brain's activity levels have reached an adequate threshold of meditation, relaxation, or even contentment. The gadget of my dreams would then disrupt those relatively unmonetizable states of mind, which I tend to drift into from time-to-time, and with a much more profitable and optimized state of alertness using a variety of well-developed innovations and software tricks such as haptics, electromagnetism, or sound, at a liminal or subliminal threshold. It matters not as long as the job gets done in the end. As long as the conversion has taken place, and that the signal-to-conversion ratio is well within parameters. I'll then rest easy, knowing that I'm helping others. I'm saving jobs. Saving lives. Saving shareholders. Priceless. Innovations such as this bring me one step closer to my own self-actualization. God bless innovation.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoThere are no unmonetizable states of mind!
- ChatGTP 3y agoYou're looking for 100% productivity ?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- xg15 3y agoI for one welcome our new ad overlords. Who needs concentration anyway when everything is done by AI?
- glaslong 3y agoon any other site i would have said this was clearly a joke
- rogerkirkness 3y agoStarted using EarPods (the wired ones) lately, love it. No charging, no signal issues, cost $24 so no stress about losing them. The future.
- c0pium 3y agoYou forgot no audio quality.
- rogerkirkness 3y agoNo active noise cancelling, but the audio quality is good.
- c0pium 3y agoI sometimes envy people like you not being able to hear the difference between trash headphones and good ones.
- ChatGTP 3y agoI'm the opposite, I have a pair of "Jabra" ear buds, bluetooth, 4 years old. I absolutely love them, I wear them constantly. I never thought I'd be able to do all my house work while attending a boring work meeting, but here we are. I guess the wired ones would work too, but the freedom of no cables and active audio pass through ? Hard to beat really? Never ever have signal issues, how common is this with the AirPods?
- ksec 3y agoCompletely Off Topic. But if there is another sector that could sit adjacent to iPhone, or potentially exceeds it in terms revenue. It would be personal health.
- Hippocrates 3y agoI agree, and I think Apple is best positioned to take that space. It’ll likely be through the slow rollout of health related sensors in wearables, and safety features like the crash detection and fall alerts, combined with on-device AI. Once it reaches a certain point and data backs it, they’ll probably tout that “Apple Watch is THE watch to own if you don’t want to die 3 years early”.
- omscs99 3y agoA lot of negative comments here but I could see some merits to this (supposing it’s in an open source context and the data doesn’t go anywhere) For example, whenever you start to get stressed out, the thing will tell you to take a break. Little things like that. Instead of relying on your own level of mindfulness to get you there I think that little things like this could definitely improve quality of life, something I’d pay for personally, although with the constraint that the data doesn’t go anywhere with zero exceptions
- thfuran 3y ago>supposing it’s in an open source context and the data doesn’t go anywhere But instead it's Apple.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- reportgunner 3y agoAirpods truly on track of becoming the real Agent Smith earpiece.
- ddmf 3y agoI've been using a garmin for a while and it looks like my HRV gets worse as my propensity for a headache / migraine increases. It would be interesting to see if there is any correlation with brain activity and the other bio information it gathers so I can perhaps create an early warning system - not sure what it will do though, perhaps I'll just start my anti-migraine ritual sooner and maybe abort more than currently.
- fennecfoxy 3y agoModern patents are a joke, though. They could really just stick in a "time travel" module into the AirPod patent and then just wait for somebody else to invent it.
- dcdc123 3y agoI don't know what to think of that other than it's sort of cool that we can do that with relatively inexpensive consumer electronics as a _secondary_ function.
- rsync 3y ago[flagged]
- jonfw 3y agopatents don't mean something is remotely close to existing. A lot of patents are purely speculative, to either fish for future licensing revenues or to protect the ability to enter a market in the future
- astrange 3y agoEven EEG headbands don't actually do this; IIRC they mostly measure how tight you're holding your face muscles.
- robertlagrant 3y agoThankfully we're nowhere near crossing it.
- blocked-by-cf 3y agoThe davos types don't think "brain transparency" is so farfetched. "You may be surprised to learn this is a future that has already arrived." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfqD5aW0X5U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfqD5aW0X5U
- robertlagrant 3y agoI don't think it's valuable to learn what different groups believe and rely on that for your own understanding. To the original poster: what of your own direct experience and knowledge has convinced you that this is an imminent threat?
- izzydata 3y agoEven the most sophisticated purpose made medical research tools can't do this in a way that you are imagining. If somehow Apple accomplished mind reading devices in their spare time I'd be so amazed that I'd actually not even care how invasive it is. At least for awhile.
- cmiller1 3y agoIt's tangential to this but the integration of biofeedback with headphones reminded me something I've dreamed of having off and on for years. I would really love a music player that uses some kind of biological sensing data to help inform what it plays. When I'm exercising I'd love for my phone to be able to figure out my intensity through some metrics (heart rate, respiration, skin temperature, accelerometers) and select faster and/or more intense music as well as adjust the volume based on that information.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fennecfoxy 3y agohttps://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/20/spotify-sensors-heart-rate-mood-playlists-motion-tracking https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/20/spotify-s... mmm and there seem to be a couple (mostly dead) apps that did it, too. This would be useful though, as I listen to high BPM when running, then run to the beat, but if my heartrate starts approaching some max then it would be nice for it to pick songs that have a progressively lower bpm to get me to adjust my stride while running.
- tetris11 3y agoSame, as well as serving me better ads that I will be more susceptible to in a more euphoric state of mind.
- imnotdang 3y ago[flagged]
- Fauntleroy 3y agoIt's always a good exercise to keep in mind how fantastic new tech will be forced into shitty capitalism-driven forms when it actually hits.
- viccuad 3y ago
- wouldbecouldbe 3y agoHaha yeah which is why I don’t wear them. Call me superstitious but two electronic earpieces communicating through your brain with one another, don’t like the idea. Oh and surprise we can actually scan your brain.
- astrange 3y agoWireless headphones mostly don't communicate to each other, they both pick up the same broadcasts coming from the audio source. But your head is RF transparent, which means all RF anywhere near you is passing through it. That's fine, just don't stick it in a microwave.
- rnjailamba 3y agohttps://archive.is/2BHCC https://archive.is/2BHCC
- crazygringo 3y agoIs this even remotely feasible though, technologically? I briefly tried using the Muse headband, a cheap (~$200) brain EEG device that connects to your phone via Bluetooth, and it was pretty much a disaster. It had five metal contacts across the forehead, but could never keep all five correctly working, so it was constantly showing errors in the app about insufficient data. Given that we still haven't figured out how to even get regular consumer metal contact EEG sensors working reliably, I'm perplexed at how earbuds could ever pick up brain waves in an accurate fashion.
- astrange 3y agoI found the original Muse unusable because it'd stop reading so easily, but the updated Muse S is okay at it. It does still take too long to charge, and the first one I got leaked dye on my pillow. I also bought another product https://getbia.com https://getbia.com as the features sounded interesting, but as they haven't shipped yet, can't say if it works.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- swatcoder 3y agoFor slowly trending electrical signals like you’d use for meditation training or sleep detection, and for other biosignals like in-ear temperature, yeah, it’s mostly just a matter of making things fit and have power without compromising the core features of the product. Muse is way more ambitious in what they’re trying to do and also have way less control over manufacturing detail and efficiency. It’s a totally different thing.
- pedalpete 3y agoI am also surprised how challenging it often is to use both the original muse, and the muse S. We are making an EEG headband for increasing the efficiency of deep sleep, and though we are still improving on our data reliability, using the right materials and structure, it can be much more reliable than Muse. Earphone EEG already exists, they don't use "metal contacts", and neither do we. There are conductive silicones, and conductive fabrics which better conform to the skin and provide good signal quality and comfort. However, they still don't work well with movement. This is the challenge I see with in-ear. A neuroscientist I know just bought a pair of Emotiv MN8 (https://www.emotiv.com/mn8-eeg-headset-with-contour-app/ https://www.emotiv.com/mn8-eeg-headset-with-contour-app/) earbuds, and said they wanted to try it while running. I have serious doubts that will work, as all EGG is susceptible to movement noise. But in ear silicone conductive tips while meditating, I think that will be fine. LGs I think are out this year, Emotiv already are, there are a few others as well. The other alternative is fNIRS, which is more similar to an ECG monitor in your smartwatch. It is measuring bloodflow through the brain, but there is a delay between bloodflow and brain activity, so it was a non-starter for us as we are responding to your brain activity in real-time, but I think for meditation or similar uses it would be fine, and maybe even preferred.
- swatcoder 3y agoThe comments coming in so far are off track. This is about enabling pretty low key but useful biofeedback things like meditation training and maybe ear temperature for health tracking. The signals that would be available to AirPods are very limited and already pretty well understood. Apple’s achievement (as often) would really be in their industrial technique for producing accurate, efficient, affordable sensors that fit within their exacting product design. It’s not going to read your mind your zap current across your brain. :)
- Barrin92 3y agodoesn't really need to do any of that to have negative effects. Not only are there obvious privacy issues, the 24/7 health monitoring craze of people who are healthy and don't require such interventions is just a waste of money and potentially worry. Yet another avenue to sell people 'health services' that in reality have no measurable impact. My wife's a physician. She now routinely has to deal with healthy young people who come into her clinic with anxiety because of spurious smart watch alerts concerning their sleep or heart rhythm, despite the fact that they undergo regular checkups to begin with and such monitoring isn't indicated.
- 2023throwawayy 3y agoI have been using an Apple Watch to track my health as an otherwise healthy person for a while now. No one has tried to sell me any health services. I feel far more confident in the security of their Health ecosystem than I do any individual app developer. This is FUD.
- specialist 3y agoI'm a very unhealthy person. My Apple Watch has been a huge boon for tracking my health. For some stuff, I'd otherwise be completely oblivious. Self-reporting is notoriously unreliable. Which I've now experienced first hand.
- swatcoder 3y agoI don’t know, man. Health isn’t a binary thing, but as a spectrum, I can say that I’m healthier now than I was 10 years ago because I’ve been able to make data-informed insights into my own idiosyncratic body. Medical research tells you about population patterns and doctors treat illness. Neither of those play the same role as having lots of personal health data to form and test hypotheses over. Privacy may be a concern, but for now, I’m personally pretty comfortable with Apple’s commitment to privacy as a differentiating factor against their competitors. That won’t last forever, but it’s good for now.
- tengbretson 3y agoThe least they could do is offer to take control of my brain over a 3.5 mm jack.
- specialist 3y agoShould any of Apple's boffins be reading... I desperately want active breath monitoring. Like measuring breaths per minute. Like nudging me when I'm holding my breath. These features would greatly help me with managing chronic pain. Also, the "pulmonauts" are doing a bunch of cool new stuff. Active breath monitoring would be a boon. "Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art Hardcover" by James Nestor [2020-05-26] https://www.amazon.com/Breath-New-Science-Lost-Art/dp/0735213615 https://www.amazon.com/Breath-New-Science-Lost-Art/dp/073521... -- Out of curiosity, I tried using some decibel meter type apps to detect my breathing (breath sounds). Just to see if it's even possible. I didn't get very far. I haven't had the gumption to investigate further. Use an actual mic and tape recorder, because maybe the iPhone is doing active noise cancelation or something. If there's actually some signal (sound), maybe there's also a way to get the raw data from the iPhone mic. Asked another way, I'm not smart enough to figure out if an iPhone's stock mics are sensitive enough to pick up 10 decibels (breath sounds). My google-fu is weak.
- lelaurent 3y agoYou can archive this without tech by practicing mindfulness. Begin by focusing on your breath whenever you leave a room.
- emptybits 3y ago> I desperately want active breath monitoring. Like measuring breaths per minute. Not sure about the state of Apple Watchen but my Garmin watch (a several year old Fenix) monitors breaths per minute, history, and has breath exercises. Seems this would be easily within reach of Apple so I’m not sure why they’re not doing it if Garmin is. Unless what Garmin considers accurate or reliable isn’t up to Apple standards. Shrug.
- specialist 3y agoThank you! I don't know how I missed the Garmin. (My google-fu is weaker than I had feared.) TIL: Garmin also uses HRV to infer respiration, aka respiratory sinus arrhythmia. But it's good enough for all day. And skimming their forums suggests their users are content that it works as advertised. https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/garmin-technology/health-science/respiration-rate/ https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/garmin-technology/health-scienc... https://www.garmin.com/en-SG/blog/critical-relationship-between-respiratory-rate-heart-rate-and-cadence/ https://www.garmin.com/en-SG/blog/critical-relationship-betw...
- ortusdux 3y agoI wonder if any standard or experimental smartwatch sensors are more accurate when used in the ear canal vs the wrist.
- shironandonon_ 3y agothis will be great so that the volume may be increased should the user not be listening to advertising material appropriately.
- inputError 3y agoi miss when we could just ff web commercials when html 5 video debuted. they fixed that real quick.
- tea-coffee 3y agoReally skeptical of the potential EMG and EEG capabilities, feel like they would just be noise-filled approximations, but the other potential features of monitoring body temperature and hearing seem worthwhile.
- demondemidi 3y agoI want an AI DJ to pick the right tunes when I'm running to fit my pace, where I am on the run (e.g., approaching a hill, near the finish), and my match heartrate. I hate having to do that manually. Sometimes you need to zone out for 10 miles, other times you need that kick at the right time to avoid the wall/bonk.
- dylan604 3y agothis sounds so sci-fi for when i used to be a runner "back in the day", but i know most game consoles already do this.
- ortusdux 3y agoI wonder if something like this would be good for REM state tracking. I can really feel a difference when my alarm gets me up during REM vs normal sleep. I've tried smart watches, fitness bands, and even Withing's sleep tracking mat, but nothing has nailed the killer feature I want, which is a dynamic morning alarm that adjust to my REM cycle. I'd be willing to wear sleep earbuds if they had this feature!
- ddmf 3y agoI was considering buying the sleep tracking mat, and I'm sure it mentioned it had dynamic waking similar to what you mention - to be honest I looked at so many devices though. (Also would be useful for turning off un-needed devices around the house when I jump into bed!)
- ortusdux 3y agoTo minimize radiation exposure, the mat turns wifi broadcasting off when it senses you are in bed. So dynamic wakeup is off the table. I also find this setup annoying because there are times where I'm still in bed and trying to decide if I need more sleep, but it won't update until I physically get out of bed. It can do smart lighting control, but there is a delay when it has to connect to the wifi. I would have preferred the wifi disabling being optional, or a bluetooth link to my phone, or even an ethernet port!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- nenaoki 3y agoSleep Cycle does this.