3 ms·
How wide are these stairs, typically? Because I've been in a staircase built by hand out of stone (and yes, I was given this exact explanation for why it was bu
by sfink 3y ago
How wide are these stairs, typically? Because I've been in a staircase built by hand out of stone (and yes, I was given this exact explanation for why it was built clockwise, despite it being in Carmel, California, which is not exactly a hotspot for medieval sieges). And a lot of what people are talking about here is laughably irrelevant if the stairs were as steep and narrow as that one was.
It was tight. I didn't have much trouble climbing it, but I'm not sure I could have navigated it at all wearing armor. Falling down the stairs was not an issue because you'd just fall against the curved wall. Passing by other people? Hahaha. Maybe if you were trying to play Medieval Twister.
The defender advantage argument was viscerally satisfying, because you could so easily imagine how impossible it would be to do anything with the inward hand. Which is probably mostly evidence for why the myth persists, whether it is true or false. Though that itself could have applied to the builders or customers of times past. You can build them one way or the other, and here's a satisfying explanation for one even if it pertains to a situation that never happens, so... why not go with clockwise?
Then again, if I were to speculate, I would wonder why the fixation on sieges? If the defensibility argument were true, couldn't it apply to other situations like an attack by the populace or staff? The lord's personal guard might still appreciate the edge.
I can't help but think that carrying beer, torches, or chamber pots ought to be a bigger part of the justification, though.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Aeolun 3y ago> I'm not sure I could have navigated it at all wearing armor That’s another myth. Wearing a reasonable form of plate mail is sort of heavy, but doesn’t really restrict your movement as much as people seem to think.
- bradknowles 3y agoI've worn really good armor in SCA heavy combat. I've also been up some impossibly narrow curved staircases where I am certain I could not have made it while wearing armor -- I could barely squeeze through without armor. The top flights of stairs at Köln Cathedral are pretty tight, and the whole 55 flights of stairs is nothing to laugh at. Now, the difference is that I'm probably bigger than your average footman or knight who might have been trying to go up those stairs. But they definitely wouldn't be passing anyone on the stairs, and they definitely would have had trouble hacking on someone who was above them on the staircase. The one key fact that puts the idea to rest is all the staircases I've seen that spiral clockwise in one part of the building, and counter-clockwise in the other. Everything else being equal, both sets of stairs could be used to go either up or down, and you could choose which set to use. At Köln Cathedral, they tell you which ones are for up and which ones are for down, but if you're an invading attacker, you don't pay attention to the rules of the house you're invading.
- bombcar 3y agoA cathedral is more likely to have architectural questions answered by aesthetic design than by defensive design. And if some decent percentage of the 30% of the "wrong way" staircases are paired like such, it would put even more evidence that there really was something about right-hand staircases.
- bradknowles 3y agoYeah, but I've seen the same thing in various castles I've been to in Europe. Köln Cathedral was just the one that leapt most readily to mind.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago> it would put even more evidence that there really was something about right-hand staircases. Probably there was. It might have also had nothing to do with making it easier to defend the staircase during combat. Maybe they just found that carry stuff up if the stairs go clockwise is easier. Maybe counterclockwise works better for those climbing down. But in most places you don’t really have enough space for two staircases so you just chose which (up/down) is more important to you
- codedokode 3y ago> The one key fact that puts the idea to rest is all the staircases I've seen that spiral clockwise in one part of the building, and counter-clockwise in the other. Smart! One staircase to defend from attackers coming up from the ground and another to defend from attackers coming from the roof.
- Beached 3y agoplate armor makes you wider. weight and movement don't matter if you are too wide to walk up the stairs. I too have been jn these stairs, and wearing a t-shirt as a 5'8" male, I have about 2 to 4 inches of clearance. I would imagine a fully armored person taking up that small amount of empty space easily.
- Aeolun 3y agoI took as kind of implied that we weren’t talking about “doesn’t physically fit on the stairs” because that wouldn’t be a very interesting assertion to make. I imagine 5-10cm is enough, at least to the point you can wrangle yourself up the stairs, but you wouldn’t be fighting there in the first place with that amount of space.
- firecall 3y agoYou also have a range advantage coming up. Your arm and the end of your sword can more easily reach the feet and lower legs of something above you. Whereas coming down the stairs, you have a harder time getting your sword to reach someone coming up because your range is reduced due to the height of your body.
- hoseja 3y agoMedieval people, even soldiers, had generally smaller statures in medieval times.