9 ms·

The problem with USB-a isn't that it's non reversible, it's that it's non-reversible _and_ rectangular, so it's not clear at a glance which way round it should

The problem with USB-a isn't that it's non reversible, it's that it's non-reversible _and_ rectangular, so it's not clear at a glance which way round it should go. All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor design change.

fennecfoxy 3y ago
Tbf I think the most prevalent issue with USB was from people plugging them in where they cannot see the port properly, ie the back of a computer tower (most often) or back of TV/console etc. Not really sure that that's USB's fault so much as a lack of front USB ports. I think in those cases the consumer can chose to get some sort of hub that's easier to access/can be pulled out from behind their setup. Now that C exists though, idk if we really need to go much further. Connector much smaller than it is now will become fragile. I've always thought they could add a single fiber core to USB cables for some "ultra high speed" standard, since USB4 is predicted to top out at 80GBps, but we could get 50Tbps or so over a single fiber if we really needed to. But after owning several fiber cables, for networking and HDMI fiber based cables...yeah they're far, far too weak to replace copper. Just look at 'em wrong and they snap/break. Plus tbf if we get 80gbps from usb4...the problem then becomes that we don't reaaaally have a use case for that speed. Maybe network adaptors, but beyond that...I mean a modern SSD will saturate that with a sequential read I suppose, but still.
davidgay 3y ago
That only works when you can see the place you're connecting to, or have used it many times. I've definitely cursed many times failing to plug in non-rectangular VGA, serial and parallel cables ;) [edit: it is still better, but not a panacea]
stevage 3y ago
Even having a bump on the rubber moulding as part of the standard would have solved the problem.
- rzzzt 3y ago
  The USB symbol goes on top, IIRC. Edit: ninja'd by an enormous amount of people elsewhere in the thread, gah.
  - qup 3y ago
    This is not always true, and not all ports are horizontal anyway.
    - edgedetector 3y ago
      Isn't it part of the standard?
      - Talanes 3y ago
        In relation to the PCB, so if they're horizontally mounted onto the motherboard, you end up with vertical slots on the back of a standard tower.
      - askvictor 3y ago
        Yes. Does everyone follow the standard? No. Including big names that prefer to have their logo facing up.
  - ngcc_hk 3y ago
    Apple and many others need to be reverse always. There is no top.
  - Moru 3y ago
    Vertically aligned motherboards are hard to judge what "up" is. Usually up is where the expansion boards are plugged in. But not all computer users know how a computer looks inside.
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    > The USB symbol goes on top, IIRC. For some values of "top"; that is, some device manufacturers install the socket upside-down.
m_0x 3y ago
> All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor design change. I disagree. When connecting an HDMI cable I sometimes have issues, especially if in a weird angle. However I do concede is faster to connect an HDMI than a USB
- dylan604 3y ago
  Yeah, I want the connector that can be attached by only moving the TV a few inches, just enough to get my hand to fit and feel around, not something I have to rearrange the furniture for and break out some headlight to see which direction the cable is oriented. With BNC cables, I could do it with my eyes closed.
  - rainbowzootsuit 3y ago
    I find that a USB-A fits reasonably by feel into an Ethernet port for extra points.
    - joshstrange 3y ago
      Oh good, and here I thought I was the only one who had done that... more than once.
      - FrankoDelMar 3y ago
        Admittedly I did this today.
    - fsckboy 3y ago
      I did that today! right hand side of lenovo X230, then wondered why my mouse didn't work
    - macintux 3y ago
      Conversely, I plugged my USB-C cable into a USB-A port by feel recently, and didn’t notice until much later that it wasn’t charging.
jonny_eh 3y ago
For an example of an asymmetrical "rectangle", look at HDMI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#/media/File:HDMI_connector-male_2_sharp_PNr%C2%B00059.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#/media/File:HDMI_connecto...
- dweekly 3y ago
  DisplayPort is even simpler; a notched shaved off of one of the corners.
  - carstenhag 3y ago
    Still very difficult to plug in, also often struggling with its orientation.
- kergonath 3y ago
  FireWire was great for that. I loved that connector.
  - eternityforest 3y ago
    Wasn't it based on the GB link cable?
    - Macha 3y ago
      No, they both used the same physical form factor, but it seems to have just been a model from a OEM used by both nintendo and apple around that time, rather than one spec deliberately copying the connector from the other.
    - kergonath 3y ago
      I’ve seen that claim but AFAICT it comes from a single source, which was a presentation by someone involved in the FireWire connector design. So at this point it’s more of an urban legend, until we have some solid confirmation. It does not really matter though, they are very similar in construction, and are very sturdy, and I really like them both :)
themerone 3y ago
They did that from the beginning with USB-B, but they never standardized an orientation.
mcny 3y ago
Just curious if you have seen the special irregular USB A plug for the Lenovo Yoga 3 Pro. If so, what are your thoughts on it? https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1XeKTDHSYBuNjSspiq6xNzpXae.jpg_640x640Q90.jpg_.webp https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1XeKTDHSYBuNjSspiq6xNzpXae.jpg... imgur mirror https://i.imgur.com/RQvMfhT.png https://i.imgur.com/RQvMfhT.png random newegg link: https://www.newegg.com/p/2MV-00MD-00DX3 https://www.newegg.com/p/2MV-00MD-00DX3
lttlrck 3y ago
Right, don't make a non-reversible connector appear reversible... I would have thought this is Connector 101. It's so bad it takes me 3 attempts to plug in USB-A blind, at least 50% of the time.
- ilyt 3y ago
  other part of connector 101 is "put the springy bit on the cable, not socket, so when it wears out you replace a cable, not connector" Given how Mini-USB looked I'm gotta say nobody there had any clue about designing connectors...
somat 3y ago
Right, the only thing worse than USB was the PS2 port. What sort of madness drive someone to invent a round connector that is keyed. Hyperbole aside, there are some very good reasons to go with round connectors, it can be very strong and you can put a big nut on them to have an extremely secure lock. however the PS2 connector is nether of these things, It would require a much more robust key to work well. The worst connector I ever encountered was on a old ATI capture card, it was the same barrel as a ps2 connector but had about 15 pins. Everything had to be perfect for it to insert, a tiny scratch or a slightly bent pin, it was not going anywhere.
- antiterra 3y ago
  The PS/2 connector was just a mini version of DIN connectors from the mid 1900s. They were sometimes used for printers and floppy drives in place of wider parallel connectors. In general, once you knew where ‘up’ was you could figure out the orientation in a way that is still more intuitive than USB. XLR cables are similar and still widely used, but have more external cues as to their orientation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector
- kergonath 3y ago
  > Right, the only thing worse than USB was the PS2 port. What sort of madness drive someone to invent a round connector that is keyed. The Apple desktop bus (ADB) that was used for keyboards and mice in Mac-land was also round. They improved it by using asymmetrical plugs, which marginally helped.
- akerr 3y ago
  I would line up the barrel and then rotate while pushing in until it plugged in. I don’t remember bending any pins. The mark on the top helped until the tower form factor turned the motherboard sideways. Still do this for XLR and MIDI but they’re more robust.
kelnos 3y ago
I guess it would be easier with the larger size of the USB-A connector, but I still struggle to plug in micro-USB cables sometimes, as it's still difficult to figure out its orientation at a glance.

fennecfoxy 3y ago

Tbf I think the most prevalent issue with USB was from people plugging them in where they cannot see the port properly, ie the back of a computer tower (most often) or back of TV/console etc. Not really sure that that's USB's fault so much as a lack of front USB ports. I think in those cases the consumer can chose to get some sort of hub that's easier to access/can be pulled out from behind their setup. Now that C exists though, idk if we really need to go much further. Connector much smaller than it is now will become fragile. I've always thought they could add a single fiber core to USB cables for some "ultra high speed" standard, since USB4 is predicted to top out at 80GBps, but we could get 50Tbps or so over a single fiber if we really needed to. But after owning several fiber cables, for networking and HDMI fiber based cables...yeah they're far, far too weak to replace copper. Just look at 'em wrong and they snap/break. Plus tbf if we get 80gbps from usb4...the problem then becomes that we don't reaaaally have a use case for that speed. Maybe network adaptors, but beyond that...I mean a modern SSD will saturate that with a sequential read I suppose, but still.

davidgay 3y ago

That only works when you can see the place you're connecting to, or have used it many times. I've definitely cursed many times failing to plug in non-rectangular VGA, serial and parallel cables ;) [edit: it is still better, but not a panacea]

stevage 3y ago

Even having a bump on the rubber moulding as part of the standard would have solved the problem.

rzzzt 3y ago
The USB symbol goes on top, IIRC. Edit: ninja'd by an enormous amount of people elsewhere in the thread, gah.
- qup 3y ago
  This is not always true, and not all ports are horizontal anyway.
  - edgedetector 3y ago
    Isn't it part of the standard?
    - Talanes 3y ago
      In relation to the PCB, so if they're horizontally mounted onto the motherboard, you end up with vertical slots on the back of a standard tower.
    - askvictor 3y ago
      Yes. Does everyone follow the standard? No. Including big names that prefer to have their logo facing up.
- ngcc_hk 3y ago
  Apple and many others need to be reverse always. There is no top.
- Moru 3y ago
  Vertically aligned motherboards are hard to judge what "up" is. Usually up is where the expansion boards are plugged in. But not all computer users know how a computer looks inside.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  > The USB symbol goes on top, IIRC. For some values of "top"; that is, some device manufacturers install the socket upside-down.

m_0x 3y ago

> All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor design change. I disagree. When connecting an HDMI cable I sometimes have issues, especially if in a weird angle. However I do concede is faster to connect an HDMI than a USB

dylan604 3y ago
Yeah, I want the connector that can be attached by only moving the TV a few inches, just enough to get my hand to fit and feel around, not something I have to rearrange the furniture for and break out some headlight to see which direction the cable is oriented. With BNC cables, I could do it with my eyes closed.
- rainbowzootsuit 3y ago
  I find that a USB-A fits reasonably by feel into an Ethernet port for extra points.
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    Oh good, and here I thought I was the only one who had done that... more than once.
    - FrankoDelMar 3y ago
      Admittedly I did this today.
  - fsckboy 3y ago
    I did that today! right hand side of lenovo X230, then wondered why my mouse didn't work
  - macintux 3y ago
    Conversely, I plugged my USB-C cable into a USB-A port by feel recently, and didn’t notice until much later that it wasn’t charging.

jonny_eh 3y ago

For an example of an asymmetrical "rectangle", look at HDMI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#/media/File:HDMI_connector-male_2_sharp_PNr%C2%B00059.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#/media/File:HDMI_connecto...

dweekly 3y ago
DisplayPort is even simpler; a notched shaved off of one of the corners.
- carstenhag 3y ago
  Still very difficult to plug in, also often struggling with its orientation.
kergonath 3y ago
FireWire was great for that. I loved that connector.
- eternityforest 3y ago
  Wasn't it based on the GB link cable?
  - Macha 3y ago
    No, they both used the same physical form factor, but it seems to have just been a model from a OEM used by both nintendo and apple around that time, rather than one spec deliberately copying the connector from the other.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    I’ve seen that claim but AFAICT it comes from a single source, which was a presentation by someone involved in the FireWire connector design. So at this point it’s more of an urban legend, until we have some solid confirmation. It does not really matter though, they are very similar in construction, and are very sturdy, and I really like them both :)

themerone 3y ago

They did that from the beginning with USB-B, but they never standardized an orientation.

mcny 3y ago

Just curious if you have seen the special irregular USB A plug for the Lenovo Yoga 3 Pro. If so, what are your thoughts on it? https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1XeKTDHSYBuNjSspiq6xNzpXae.jpg_640x640Q90.jpg_.webp https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1XeKTDHSYBuNjSspiq6xNzpXae.jpg... imgur mirror https://i.imgur.com/RQvMfhT.png https://i.imgur.com/RQvMfhT.png random newegg link: https://www.newegg.com/p/2MV-00MD-00DX3 https://www.newegg.com/p/2MV-00MD-00DX3

lttlrck 3y ago

Right, don't make a non-reversible connector appear reversible... I would have thought this is Connector 101. It's so bad it takes me 3 attempts to plug in USB-A blind, at least 50% of the time.

ilyt 3y ago
other part of connector 101 is "put the springy bit on the cable, not socket, so when it wears out you replace a cable, not connector" Given how Mini-USB looked I'm gotta say nobody there had any clue about designing connectors...

somat 3y ago

Right, the only thing worse than USB was the PS2 port. What sort of madness drive someone to invent a round connector that is keyed. Hyperbole aside, there are some very good reasons to go with round connectors, it can be very strong and you can put a big nut on them to have an extremely secure lock. however the PS2 connector is nether of these things, It would require a much more robust key to work well. The worst connector I ever encountered was on a old ATI capture card, it was the same barrel as a ps2 connector but had about 15 pins. Everything had to be perfect for it to insert, a tiny scratch or a slightly bent pin, it was not going anywhere.

antiterra 3y ago
The PS/2 connector was just a mini version of DIN connectors from the mid 1900s. They were sometimes used for printers and floppy drives in place of wider parallel connectors. In general, once you knew where ‘up’ was you could figure out the orientation in a way that is still more intuitive than USB. XLR cables are similar and still widely used, but have more external cues as to their orientation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector
kergonath 3y ago
> Right, the only thing worse than USB was the PS2 port. What sort of madness drive someone to invent a round connector that is keyed. The Apple desktop bus (ADB) that was used for keyboards and mice in Mac-land was also round. They improved it by using asymmetrical plugs, which marginally helped.
akerr 3y ago
I would line up the barrel and then rotate while pushing in until it plugged in. I don’t remember bending any pins. The mark on the top helped until the tower form factor turned the motherboard sideways. Still do this for XLR and MIDI but they’re more robust.

kelnos 3y ago

I guess it would be easier with the larger size of the USB-A connector, but I still struggle to plug in micro-USB cables sometimes, as it's still difficult to figure out its orientation at a glance.