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The implications, as far as I've understood, is that the Chinese government has access and, theoretically, could be slurping the information that TikTok collect

The implications, as far as I've understood, is that the Chinese government has access and, theoretically, could be slurping the information that TikTok collects which is seemingly more than some others collect. I'm not purporting to know this is happening but I believe this is the reason for the assertion.

lawlessone 3y ago
Looking at the content there... i don't think they are getting anything good...
- jayveeone 3y ago
  What content are you looking at? I see amazing artists on there every time I open the app.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  TikTok is the worst "brain junk food" platform I've seen. Sometimes people forward me videos from TikTok that have some horizontal video at the top (the one you are supposed to watch, apparently?), and then completely unrelated video game footage as the vertical "background". I don't know if it is intended to hook into some sort of attention hack where they abuse the fact that humans are stimulated by movement and color, so a video with a game background is more appealing/attractive than one without, but it's too much stimulus for me to enjoy it. I try to avoid brain junk food most of the time.
  - gardenhedge 3y ago
    It depends on what you look at. The algorithm learns and basically mirrors your interests. Look at crap and it means you're crap. For example I get great gardening tips, DIY videos and learn something every swipe /s I completely agree with you. It's junk! But expect to see my first paragraph as a common rebuttal.
    - thaanpaa 3y ago
      I.e. people who actually use the app are wrong, and you must be right.
      - gardenhedge 3y ago
        I've used the app from an objective point of view. I no longer use the app. I don't think the people promoting it for gardening tips are being objective. The app is _designed_ to keep you scrolling.
  - thaanpaa 3y ago
    My TikTok is filled with electrical engineering, various forms of activism, and so on. I've never seen anything like what you describe, and I've used it a lot. When I first started using it, I noticed a lot of dancing and singing (by very talented people), but those types of videos disappeared quite quickly.
    - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
      It's always difficult for me to not sound like a cranky old man when it comes to social media, because there are good things about social media as a concept, and many good things have been done only because of social media's existence. It's not good for me personally though, so I mostly avoid it. In execution, I really don't like how much it tries to hotwire our brains to scroll endlessly/seek attention so it can sneak ads in between. I also don't like how so much of it is geared toward instant gratification. Will we someday feel the same way about social media that we do about tobacco companies? "People willingly addicting themselves to something for the profit of a corporation" sounds dystopian but we've been here for years...
  - paulddraper 3y ago
    > I don't know if it is intended to hook into some sort of attention hack That's exactly it. Your ADHD brain is satiated by the bright color and movement and you pause long enough for the actual content to get the interesting part.
jayveeone 3y ago
There is zero proof that TikTok collects more user data or uses that data any more nefariously than Meta. US privacy laws are a joke. Singling out TikTok without addressing events like Cambridge Analytica with Facebook, is at best suspicious.
- thaanpaa 3y ago
  Everyone seems to believe that all the apps spy on users (such as tracking your location, etc.), but I don't believe the platforms actually permit this unless the user expressly grants the app permission. However, just having a huge database of videos, viewing patterns, and social connections to analyze can be absurdly valuable, but I don't see all of that becoming illegal anytime soon.
- rchaud 3y ago
  > Singling out TikTok without addressing events like Cambridge Analytica with Facebook They have addressed it, with the single largest FTC fine in history. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/07/ftc-imposes-5-billion-penalty-sweeping-new-privacy-restrictions-facebook https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/07/...
  - jayveeone 3y ago
    I'm in awe that you linked to the FTC fine as evidence of our government taking action to protect our user data.
  - asadotzler 3y ago
    How is 7% of that one year's revenue meaningful? Facebook could pay that every year and still be extremely lucrative. So, no, it has not been addressed.
    - rchaud 3y ago
      This is America, fines are how everything is addressed. Deepwater Horizon, Exxon Valdez, Facebook, you name it. We don't haul CEOs off to jail in this country.
throw__away7391 3y ago
I always thought that the opposite was the main concern, pushing a narrative rather than collecting data. I don’t know if it is, but it would be mine. For example, I have seen many videos clearly aimed at young people that casually and weirdly slip in a comment stating that Taiwan is part of China. One example: one of these “a guy asking pretty girls trivia questions” asks two girls a series of questions, to one question she says Taiwan to which says “Taiwan is part of China” in a mocking voice and the other girl laughs at her. Another example: a guy giving statistics about private jet ownership randomly mentioning the number of planes “in China, including Taiwan and Hong Kong”. These all appear to be made by Americans, filmed in LA or Miami, but are clearly either some sort of deliberate attempt to influence public opinion or content creators trying to get their videos promoted by including such comments.
- Hizonner 3y ago
  That does sound like the tone of Chinese propaganda. I mean, when they think they're being subtle. They are so bad at it. I would hope that kind of thing would be pretty cringeworthily crude and obvious to any teenager raised on a diet of Western advertising. Maybe I'm overoptimistic, though.
- kelseyfrog 3y ago
  This has "we don't have propaganda - we have truth," and "they don't have truth - they have propaganda" vibes to it. I'm frankly tired of being patronized. If the US wants to propagandize to people at least just admit it. At least one side is truthful about it.
  - usernomdeguerre 3y ago
    If we agree that both parties propagandize we should also recognize that they may do so to different ends, no?
    - kelseyfrog 3y ago
      Yep, and as someone on the receiving end, one can choose to defect as a bargaining tactic.

lawlessone 3y ago

Looking at the content there... i don't think they are getting anything good...

jayveeone 3y ago
What content are you looking at? I see amazing artists on there every time I open the app.
I_Am_Nous 3y ago
TikTok is the worst "brain junk food" platform I've seen. Sometimes people forward me videos from TikTok that have some horizontal video at the top (the one you are supposed to watch, apparently?), and then completely unrelated video game footage as the vertical "background". I don't know if it is intended to hook into some sort of attention hack where they abuse the fact that humans are stimulated by movement and color, so a video with a game background is more appealing/attractive than one without, but it's too much stimulus for me to enjoy it. I try to avoid brain junk food most of the time.
- gardenhedge 3y ago
  It depends on what you look at. The algorithm learns and basically mirrors your interests. Look at crap and it means you're crap. For example I get great gardening tips, DIY videos and learn something every swipe /s I completely agree with you. It's junk! But expect to see my first paragraph as a common rebuttal.
  - thaanpaa 3y ago
    I.e. people who actually use the app are wrong, and you must be right.
    - gardenhedge 3y ago
      I've used the app from an objective point of view. I no longer use the app. I don't think the people promoting it for gardening tips are being objective. The app is _designed_ to keep you scrolling.
- thaanpaa 3y ago
  My TikTok is filled with electrical engineering, various forms of activism, and so on. I've never seen anything like what you describe, and I've used it a lot. When I first started using it, I noticed a lot of dancing and singing (by very talented people), but those types of videos disappeared quite quickly.
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    It's always difficult for me to not sound like a cranky old man when it comes to social media, because there are good things about social media as a concept, and many good things have been done only because of social media's existence. It's not good for me personally though, so I mostly avoid it. In execution, I really don't like how much it tries to hotwire our brains to scroll endlessly/seek attention so it can sneak ads in between. I also don't like how so much of it is geared toward instant gratification. Will we someday feel the same way about social media that we do about tobacco companies? "People willingly addicting themselves to something for the profit of a corporation" sounds dystopian but we've been here for years...
- paulddraper 3y ago
  > I don't know if it is intended to hook into some sort of attention hack That's exactly it. Your ADHD brain is satiated by the bright color and movement and you pause long enough for the actual content to get the interesting part.

jayveeone 3y ago

There is zero proof that TikTok collects more user data or uses that data any more nefariously than Meta. US privacy laws are a joke. Singling out TikTok without addressing events like Cambridge Analytica with Facebook, is at best suspicious.

thaanpaa 3y ago
Everyone seems to believe that all the apps spy on users (such as tracking your location, etc.), but I don't believe the platforms actually permit this unless the user expressly grants the app permission. However, just having a huge database of videos, viewing patterns, and social connections to analyze can be absurdly valuable, but I don't see all of that becoming illegal anytime soon.
rchaud 3y ago
> Singling out TikTok without addressing events like Cambridge Analytica with Facebook They have addressed it, with the single largest FTC fine in history. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/07/ftc-imposes-5-billion-penalty-sweeping-new-privacy-restrictions-facebook https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/07/...
- jayveeone 3y ago
  I'm in awe that you linked to the FTC fine as evidence of our government taking action to protect our user data.
- asadotzler 3y ago
  How is 7% of that one year's revenue meaningful? Facebook could pay that every year and still be extremely lucrative. So, no, it has not been addressed.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    This is America, fines are how everything is addressed. Deepwater Horizon, Exxon Valdez, Facebook, you name it. We don't haul CEOs off to jail in this country.

throw__away7391 3y ago

I always thought that the opposite was the main concern, pushing a narrative rather than collecting data. I don’t know if it is, but it would be mine. For example, I have seen many videos clearly aimed at young people that casually and weirdly slip in a comment stating that Taiwan is part of China. One example: one of these “a guy asking pretty girls trivia questions” asks two girls a series of questions, to one question she says Taiwan to which says “Taiwan is part of China” in a mocking voice and the other girl laughs at her. Another example: a guy giving statistics about private jet ownership randomly mentioning the number of planes “in China, including Taiwan and Hong Kong”. These all appear to be made by Americans, filmed in LA or Miami, but are clearly either some sort of deliberate attempt to influence public opinion or content creators trying to get their videos promoted by including such comments.

Hizonner 3y ago
That does sound like the tone of Chinese propaganda. I mean, when they think they're being subtle. They are so bad at it. I would hope that kind of thing would be pretty cringeworthily crude and obvious to any teenager raised on a diet of Western advertising. Maybe I'm overoptimistic, though.
kelseyfrog 3y ago
This has "we don't have propaganda - we have truth," and "they don't have truth - they have propaganda" vibes to it. I'm frankly tired of being patronized. If the US wants to propagandize to people at least just admit it. At least one side is truthful about it.
- usernomdeguerre 3y ago
  If we agree that both parties propagandize we should also recognize that they may do so to different ends, no?
  - kelseyfrog 3y ago
    Yep, and as someone on the receiving end, one can choose to defect as a bargaining tactic.