8 ms·

You know how food tastes better when you’re hungry? That’s the element of nostalgia that is still unaccounted for in the emulation/preservation scene. Most of

by jl6 3y ago

You know how food tastes better when you’re hungry? That’s the element of nostalgia that is still unaccounted for in the emulation/preservation scene. Most of us who grew up playing games were hungry for it - our parents allowed us a fairly limited supply of games, on their budget and schedule, and they probably put limits on when and how long we could play them for, right? Maybe we had to travel to a friend’s house because they were the only one in the neighborhood with a particular game or console. Furthermore, entertainment options in general were limited, and the games offered a genuine novelty that you couldn’t get anywhere else - even the crappy ones. Thus we savored every opportunity to play, and the satisfaction of that hunger is what our nostalgic memories are built on. Contrast to today, where you can download NES.zip and possess literally every game on that platform, almost instantly. As an adult, you can play as much as you like. But you probably don’t even want to play that much because you’ve also got a universe of streaming TV and movies and media and a back catalog of AAA-games a mile long and VR and gadgets and social media and a million other entertainment options, distractions and responsibilities. We’re not hungry at all - we’re obese from media and stuffed to the gills with it.

PaulHoule 3y ago
My son got an N64 because he likes F-Zero and was looking for a CRT to go with it, I spoke to the director of our reuse center who said they send them to the hazardous waste landfill all the time but they’d hold one out for us and in a few weeks we got a cute little TV with a built-in VCR. I was hoping to get a home theatre from the late analog era but we didn’t see one so I got him a 2-channel receiver from NAD that looked like the gear I would have lusted over in the 1980s.
DWe1 3y ago
I have noticed this and built a system of scarcity in my consumption. I have a "random walk" of movies where I randomly go from one movie to the next based on director, writer, cast, prizes etc. I make sure the walk is not a slog and there is enough good movies that I encounter. That way it's really fun to "hit" a very good movie. It's almost like gambling but then with media consumption. I do that with restaurants/activities too (to a certain extent that I control) with all kinds of subsystems in it that I designed to be fun for myself. For video games my system is not random, but I will go 20 years in the past and play the major releases of that year. So I'm playing Beyond Good & Evil soon and already look forward to Half Life 2 next year. Makes me hyped but without fail because I know the actual release was a hit.
- rokkamokka 3y ago
  You could apply your video game system to other media consumption as well. Why don't you?
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    If I had to take a guess: watching a potentially bad movie still has a quality floor unless we are counting those dollar bin Wal mart DVDs. And even a really bad movie is generally 2 hours. a bad game can be frustrating to play and take 5 times that length at minimum.
  - glenstein 3y ago
    Well they just explained that they created kind of a content consumption subsystem and that having that system is fun in and of itself. Besides, with something like media consumption, having an idiosyncratic system doesn't to my mind present any conceptual issue where it's necessary to interrogate it for consistency, so I'm a bit confused as to what motivates that kind of question.
  - DWe1 3y ago
    All systems went through changes and I'm not afraid to change them further along the way. I was interested in video games from a young age and have an interest in how games progressed over the years. I saw a chance to have a somewhat comprehensive experience from the 90's over to the 00's, who knows how long I will keep doing this. With movies I didn't want to start in the 30's and watch all kinds of esoteric material that is mostly historically relevant, I just want to be entertained with a movie. Also, with movies it feels more satisfying to watch a classic in between other movies, instead of watching only classic after classic, so that's how I designed that system. With video games, I want all experiences to be very good otherwise I will just stop playing. It's just how I consume it and it's quite personal. Typically randomness adds an exciting factor to the equation so I prefer it over deterministic systems, but video games are an exception here.
- notnmeyer 3y ago
  this is interesting and sounds like fun. is there anywhere in particular you’re looking for the top releases for 20 years ago?
Justsignedup 3y ago
Also old games wining was not guaranteed. Mario, sonic, hell most sidesrollers. Just because you put 50 hours into the game doesn't mean you'll win. It's why dark souls has a place in my heart. It was a modern game where wining was absolutely not guaranteed. It was hard. And it put you on awe with visuals. Most games you play nowadays is winnable. And when it isn't people complain why isn't it winnable. Well... It's why they're not impactful. Do you remember the win you made against a group of 5 year Olds in soccer? Or do you remember the win against friends who were better than you but you played your heart out. That's the difference. Imo
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  I guess that explains the appeal of the "souls" subgenre of games. But also why it's not for me. I never beat Sonic 2 or Mario 3 as a small child and that was frustrating. Meanwhile, some of the first games I did beat by myself were Pokemon Silver and Final Fantasy VII. And they both gave me satisfying conclusions to my journey (compared to say, GTA 2, another game I played a lot by myself). And that proceeded to strongly influence the kinds of games I play. not necessarily hard ones, but ones that rewarded my teambuilding (or at least, ability to cheese the mechanics).
  - anthk 3y ago
    A game like GTA 2 (and specially 3) was not meant to be played as-in-the-script, but to fuck around in the city the to have fun and, then, yes, complete the game.
- masklinn 3y ago
  > Most games you play nowadays is winnable. And when it isn't people complain why isn't it winnable. Meh. There’s plenty of modern games where “winning” either is not really a thing (Minecraft, Terraria, dwarf fortress) or is fiendishly difficult (“winning” StS would be semi-reliably killing the heart with any character at maximum ascension, I think just reaching A20 in 50 hours would be impressive).
  - 3y ago
geraldwhen 3y ago
It takes discipline in all things. In highschool I had SNES.zip, and I fully completed over a dozen RPGs, some multiple times. For my children, I insist they watch one movie at once, one show, one game, one book. We don’t start multiple games, or books, until we follow something all the way through.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
  Sounds good, but I feel like being disciplined in your consumption of relaxing entertainment is something of an oxymoron.
  - pchristensen 3y ago
    It’s not an oxymoron when facing an infinite number of algorithmic firehoses of content.
  - fnordpiglet 3y ago
    When raising kids media consumption at a family level is actually often less about relaxation and more about cultural education, and if done right, educating kids how to consume media without the dark patterns of media consuming you.
- lobsterthief 3y ago
  What if it’s a book or show they don’t like? Do they have to follow it all the way through just because of the mistake of starting it? Seems like they’re going to miss out on a lot of experiences because they accidentally chose the wrong thing. I have a friend like this—he’s super noncommittal on experiences and events because he’s convinced something better will come along last minute (it rarely, if ever, does). And he ends up missing out—a lot.
  - arvinsim 3y ago
    I think the point was to do one thing at a time. If a book/movie/series doesn't work out, then drop it and move on. Life is too short.
ilyt 3y ago
Also just sheer choice of "good" games. I look at my wishlist on Steam and think "If didn't had a job and could play games for next 20 years I would still not have to settle for average one ever again". Like, compared to 20 years ago I don't ever play anything that by 20 years ago standards would be considered "just okay" or below. We're definitely spoiled And between indies and sales they are cheap too. Frankly picking good ones becomes harder, you no longer can count on next <AAA developer> being great as usual and game journalists are incompetent more often than they are useful.
- arvinsim 3y ago
  Funny that gameplay-wise, AAA games are the least interesting IMO. I play AAA games for the narrative now.
  - anthk 3y ago
    As the current AAA games are as playable as mediocre movies, and the movies themselves are nothing but soulless remakes, I'd prefer to get some public domain comic books from https://comicbookplus.com https://comicbookplus.com and get some stories from Ditko, the non-superhero based ones, but the ones from mistery/scifi themes, kinda like a comic version of The Twilight Zone. On proper gaming, most AAA games are lacking against Slashem, IF, csokoban and casual and libre games like Trigger Rally where the playability it's just there, even if the graphics are two decades behind.
    - arvinsim 3y ago
      Yes, I do agree that books are superior. But sometimes at the end of the day when I am tired, I just want to play something mindless and not that challenging.
- generic92034 3y ago
  > Also just sheer choice of "good" games. It is obviously a matter of personal taste and a matter of being lucky or unlucky choosing games, but my experience is very much the opposite. There are (nearly) no good games anymore.
boxed 3y ago
You're talking about a different thing than the video is talking about.
- pc86 3y ago
  I suggest you watch at least 30 seconds of the video. "Nostalgia's a very powerful and good thing" referring to our desire to come back to these games, "20, 30 years later." This comment is very relevant to the general effect of nostalgia and how it affects our desire to play to these games, and presents another (not contradictory or mutually exclusive) reason why they can sometimes fall flat today. The video focuses on the technical aspect but the economic/life aspect in the comment is equally important.
  - boxed 3y ago
    One throw away sentence in the beginning doesn't make it the topic...
  - jader201 3y ago
    No, the parent is right. I watched over half of the video, and while nostalgia is a big focus, it’s a completely different kind of visual nostalgia associated with CRTs, and the very technical differences, down to how CRTs produce smoother motion. I read the OP and had the same reaction as the parent — this is an interesting observation, but has almost nothing to do with the video.
dalbasal 3y ago
This is true, but does not stop a foodie from going on a mission to replicate the spicy sausage flavour of petrol station food they loved on childhood road trips.
- mnky9800n 3y ago
  Is this a real story? If so, link please?
  - dalbasal 3y ago
    No. It's rhetorical.
mnky9800n 3y ago
What is scarce today?
zogrodea 3y ago
Have we amused ourselves to death?
hulitu 3y ago
> You know how food tastes better when you’re hungry? That’s the element of nostalgia that is still unaccounted for in the emulation/preservation scene. Do you know that an LCD at 24bpp has the same color quality or even worse as an CRT at 16bpp? I need my HDR TV to be able to play some old games because the old LCD monitor is crap.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
AniseAbyss 3y ago
[dead]
pipes 3y ago
You might be on to something here. I spend more time configuring things rather than playing games (mister fpga, real hardware or emulators). I think having access to any game up to about 2004 has caused me to feel opportunity cost in playing any of them. I remember friends complaining of the same sort of thing once playstation piracy took off. It got to the point were one guy I new would purposely buy real retail games that he wanted to properly play because he knew if he got it on CDR it would be worthless to him and he'd not invest the time in it.
dehrmann 3y ago
In hindsight, most of those games were bad. Some were very bad. A handful were OK, and a select few are still worth playing today. In general, games that old weren't fair, and they relied on a lot of repetitive gameplay to overcome technological limitations. 16-year-old me would also be shocked that grown-up me spends more time being physically active than gaming, though interestingly, both are driven by a sense of accomplishment.
bitwize 3y ago
Nah, man, CRTs, vinyl, and tube amps are just better. If you don't understand why you haven't really experienced them deeply. CRT televisions produce a richer, warmer picture, man! Seriously though, I do so love hearing from soi-disant experts about how NES games are objectively better on the grotty, hand-me-down CRT TV they played them on than on today's crisp, high quality LCD or OLED displays. I know because I was there -- we would have given our left nut for that kind of picture sharpness back in the day. In fact I remember transitioning my computer display in the early 2000s from a quite good CRT to one of the earliest non-ghosty LED monitors -- and the increase in sharpness was a significant improvement, less eyestrain. Not to mention the CRT flicker -- annoying to me, possibly seizure-inducing to my sister -- that's largely gone now. For a long time CRTs did have the advantage of better color reproduction, and they still have the advantage of lower latency. But compared to modern displays they have enough disadvantages that the talk of their objective superiority is mainly nostalgia and copium. I am nostalgic for consoles hooked up to CRTs. I miss the NTSC color artifacts, the perturbations in the 60Hz hum caused by crosstalk from the CPU or video hardware, the beam racing coding techniques. But I also realize I am spoiled by being able to play all my favorite retro games on a razor-sharp 4K monitor.

by jl6 3y ago

PaulHoule 3y ago

My son got an N64 because he likes F-Zero and was looking for a CRT to go with it, I spoke to the director of our reuse center who said they send them to the hazardous waste landfill all the time but they’d hold one out for us and in a few weeks we got a cute little TV with a built-in VCR. I was hoping to get a home theatre from the late analog era but we didn’t see one so I got him a 2-channel receiver from NAD that looked like the gear I would have lusted over in the 1980s.

DWe1 3y ago

I have noticed this and built a system of scarcity in my consumption. I have a "random walk" of movies where I randomly go from one movie to the next based on director, writer, cast, prizes etc. I make sure the walk is not a slog and there is enough good movies that I encounter. That way it's really fun to "hit" a very good movie. It's almost like gambling but then with media consumption. I do that with restaurants/activities too (to a certain extent that I control) with all kinds of subsystems in it that I designed to be fun for myself. For video games my system is not random, but I will go 20 years in the past and play the major releases of that year. So I'm playing Beyond Good & Evil soon and already look forward to Half Life 2 next year. Makes me hyped but without fail because I know the actual release was a hit.

rokkamokka 3y ago
You could apply your video game system to other media consumption as well. Why don't you?
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  If I had to take a guess: watching a potentially bad movie still has a quality floor unless we are counting those dollar bin Wal mart DVDs. And even a really bad movie is generally 2 hours. a bad game can be frustrating to play and take 5 times that length at minimum.
- glenstein 3y ago
  Well they just explained that they created kind of a content consumption subsystem and that having that system is fun in and of itself. Besides, with something like media consumption, having an idiosyncratic system doesn't to my mind present any conceptual issue where it's necessary to interrogate it for consistency, so I'm a bit confused as to what motivates that kind of question.
- DWe1 3y ago
  All systems went through changes and I'm not afraid to change them further along the way. I was interested in video games from a young age and have an interest in how games progressed over the years. I saw a chance to have a somewhat comprehensive experience from the 90's over to the 00's, who knows how long I will keep doing this. With movies I didn't want to start in the 30's and watch all kinds of esoteric material that is mostly historically relevant, I just want to be entertained with a movie. Also, with movies it feels more satisfying to watch a classic in between other movies, instead of watching only classic after classic, so that's how I designed that system. With video games, I want all experiences to be very good otherwise I will just stop playing. It's just how I consume it and it's quite personal. Typically randomness adds an exciting factor to the equation so I prefer it over deterministic systems, but video games are an exception here.
notnmeyer 3y ago
this is interesting and sounds like fun. is there anywhere in particular you’re looking for the top releases for 20 years ago?

Justsignedup 3y ago

Also old games wining was not guaranteed. Mario, sonic, hell most sidesrollers. Just because you put 50 hours into the game doesn't mean you'll win. It's why dark souls has a place in my heart. It was a modern game where wining was absolutely not guaranteed. It was hard. And it put you on awe with visuals. Most games you play nowadays is winnable. And when it isn't people complain why isn't it winnable. Well... It's why they're not impactful. Do you remember the win you made against a group of 5 year Olds in soccer? Or do you remember the win against friends who were better than you but you played your heart out. That's the difference. Imo

johnnyanmac 3y ago
I guess that explains the appeal of the "souls" subgenre of games. But also why it's not for me. I never beat Sonic 2 or Mario 3 as a small child and that was frustrating. Meanwhile, some of the first games I did beat by myself were Pokemon Silver and Final Fantasy VII. And they both gave me satisfying conclusions to my journey (compared to say, GTA 2, another game I played a lot by myself). And that proceeded to strongly influence the kinds of games I play. not necessarily hard ones, but ones that rewarded my teambuilding (or at least, ability to cheese the mechanics).
- anthk 3y ago
  A game like GTA 2 (and specially 3) was not meant to be played as-in-the-script, but to fuck around in the city the to have fun and, then, yes, complete the game.
masklinn 3y ago
> Most games you play nowadays is winnable. And when it isn't people complain why isn't it winnable. Meh. There’s plenty of modern games where “winning” either is not really a thing (Minecraft, Terraria, dwarf fortress) or is fiendishly difficult (“winning” StS would be semi-reliably killing the heart with any character at maximum ascension, I think just reaching A20 in 50 hours would be impressive).
- 3y ago

geraldwhen 3y ago

It takes discipline in all things. In highschool I had SNES.zip, and I fully completed over a dozen RPGs, some multiple times. For my children, I insist they watch one movie at once, one show, one game, one book. We don’t start multiple games, or books, until we follow something all the way through.

0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
Sounds good, but I feel like being disciplined in your consumption of relaxing entertainment is something of an oxymoron.
- pchristensen 3y ago
  It’s not an oxymoron when facing an infinite number of algorithmic firehoses of content.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  When raising kids media consumption at a family level is actually often less about relaxation and more about cultural education, and if done right, educating kids how to consume media without the dark patterns of media consuming you.
lobsterthief 3y ago
What if it’s a book or show they don’t like? Do they have to follow it all the way through just because of the mistake of starting it? Seems like they’re going to miss out on a lot of experiences because they accidentally chose the wrong thing. I have a friend like this—he’s super noncommittal on experiences and events because he’s convinced something better will come along last minute (it rarely, if ever, does). And he ends up missing out—a lot.
- arvinsim 3y ago
  I think the point was to do one thing at a time. If a book/movie/series doesn't work out, then drop it and move on. Life is too short.

ilyt 3y ago

Also just sheer choice of "good" games. I look at my wishlist on Steam and think "If didn't had a job and could play games for next 20 years I would still not have to settle for average one ever again". Like, compared to 20 years ago I don't ever play anything that by 20 years ago standards would be considered "just okay" or below. We're definitely spoiled And between indies and sales they are cheap too. Frankly picking good ones becomes harder, you no longer can count on next <AAA developer> being great as usual and game journalists are incompetent more often than they are useful.

arvinsim 3y ago
Funny that gameplay-wise, AAA games are the least interesting IMO. I play AAA games for the narrative now.
- anthk 3y ago
  As the current AAA games are as playable as mediocre movies, and the movies themselves are nothing but soulless remakes, I'd prefer to get some public domain comic books from https://comicbookplus.com https://comicbookplus.com and get some stories from Ditko, the non-superhero based ones, but the ones from mistery/scifi themes, kinda like a comic version of The Twilight Zone. On proper gaming, most AAA games are lacking against Slashem, IF, csokoban and casual and libre games like Trigger Rally where the playability it's just there, even if the graphics are two decades behind.
  - arvinsim 3y ago
    Yes, I do agree that books are superior. But sometimes at the end of the day when I am tired, I just want to play something mindless and not that challenging.
generic92034 3y ago
> Also just sheer choice of "good" games. It is obviously a matter of personal taste and a matter of being lucky or unlucky choosing games, but my experience is very much the opposite. There are (nearly) no good games anymore.

boxed 3y ago

You're talking about a different thing than the video is talking about.

pc86 3y ago
I suggest you watch at least 30 seconds of the video. "Nostalgia's a very powerful and good thing" referring to our desire to come back to these games, "20, 30 years later." This comment is very relevant to the general effect of nostalgia and how it affects our desire to play to these games, and presents another (not contradictory or mutually exclusive) reason why they can sometimes fall flat today. The video focuses on the technical aspect but the economic/life aspect in the comment is equally important.
- boxed 3y ago
  One throw away sentence in the beginning doesn't make it the topic...
- jader201 3y ago
  No, the parent is right. I watched over half of the video, and while nostalgia is a big focus, it’s a completely different kind of visual nostalgia associated with CRTs, and the very technical differences, down to how CRTs produce smoother motion. I read the OP and had the same reaction as the parent — this is an interesting observation, but has almost nothing to do with the video.

dalbasal 3y ago

This is true, but does not stop a foodie from going on a mission to replicate the spicy sausage flavour of petrol station food they loved on childhood road trips.

mnky9800n 3y ago
Is this a real story? If so, link please?
- dalbasal 3y ago
  No. It's rhetorical.

mnky9800n 3y ago

What is scarce today?

zogrodea 3y ago

Have we amused ourselves to death?

hulitu 3y ago

> You know how food tastes better when you’re hungry? That’s the element of nostalgia that is still unaccounted for in the emulation/preservation scene. Do you know that an LCD at 24bpp has the same color quality or even worse as an CRT at 16bpp? I need my HDR TV to be able to play some old games because the old LCD monitor is crap.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

AniseAbyss 3y ago

[dead]

pipes 3y ago

You might be on to something here. I spend more time configuring things rather than playing games (mister fpga, real hardware or emulators). I think having access to any game up to about 2004 has caused me to feel opportunity cost in playing any of them. I remember friends complaining of the same sort of thing once playstation piracy took off. It got to the point were one guy I new would purposely buy real retail games that he wanted to properly play because he knew if he got it on CDR it would be worthless to him and he'd not invest the time in it.

dehrmann 3y ago

In hindsight, most of those games were bad. Some were very bad. A handful were OK, and a select few are still worth playing today. In general, games that old weren't fair, and they relied on a lot of repetitive gameplay to overcome technological limitations. 16-year-old me would also be shocked that grown-up me spends more time being physically active than gaming, though interestingly, both are driven by a sense of accomplishment.

bitwize 3y ago

Nah, man, CRTs, vinyl, and tube amps are just better. If you don't understand why you haven't really experienced them deeply. CRT televisions produce a richer, warmer picture, man! Seriously though, I do so love hearing from soi-disant experts about how NES games are objectively better on the grotty, hand-me-down CRT TV they played them on than on today's crisp, high quality LCD or OLED displays. I know because I was there -- we would have given our left nut for that kind of picture sharpness back in the day. In fact I remember transitioning my computer display in the early 2000s from a quite good CRT to one of the earliest non-ghosty LED monitors -- and the increase in sharpness was a significant improvement, less eyestrain. Not to mention the CRT flicker -- annoying to me, possibly seizure-inducing to my sister -- that's largely gone now. For a long time CRTs did have the advantage of better color reproduction, and they still have the advantage of lower latency. But compared to modern displays they have enough disadvantages that the talk of their objective superiority is mainly nostalgia and copium. I am nostalgic for consoles hooked up to CRTs. I miss the NTSC color artifacts, the perturbations in the 60Hz hum caused by crosstalk from the CPU or video hardware, the beam racing coding techniques. But I also realize I am spoiled by being able to play all my favorite retro games on a razor-sharp 4K monitor.