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Amazon's Alexa Telling Users That 2020 Election Was Rigged

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Well that's just going to fuel more conspiracy theories. Sigh. It was amazing when states like PA were counting and clearly said results will change by the morning, and when that happened and people woke up to a different result they started crying conspiracy. The election definitely wasn't rigged, but if it had been necessary to do so I would have supported it. Can't ever repeat the disaster we had from 2016 - 2022 again.
- olgeni 3y ago
  > but if it had been necessary to do so I would have supported it. And this is not going to fuel more conspiracy theories, at all \o/
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    The people that fail to reason will continue to fail to reason regardless of any comment I make.
    - w4ffl35 3y ago
      You stated you are in favor of rigging elections in order to prevent a person you don't want to be president to become president. Nothing you say on this topic is worth listening to.
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        Not quite. It's not just about personal preferences. It's about someone who is a clear and present danger to our way of life and the security of the country.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        w4ffl35 3y ago
        That is your personal opinion. A large potion of Americans feel differently than you. You may have strong feelings about this, but you aren't allowed to force an outcome on society because of it. You are advocating for fascism and rigged elections because you don't like a president's style.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        Those Americans are wrong, and most deserve the 'deplorable' moniker they were given. Most of them shouldn't have a right to vote in the first place IMO. And to downplay the issues as 'a president's style' is incredibly disingenuous.
        w4ffl35 3y ago
        These are simply more opinions and do not justify your desire to enact fascism via rigged elections.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        No, not opinions. Demonstrable facts.
        ginsider_oaks 3y ago
        > Most of them shouldn't have a right to vote in the first place [in my opinion]. > > These are simply more opinions [...] > > > No, not opinions. Demonstrable facts. you're going to have to explain this one to me
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        Most of the positions of people who vote GOP are untenable and at odds with our current understanding. Denying climate change is a good example. Voting on that basis has, and will continue to have real damage for citizens of the country, and thus the country as an entity.
- AllegedAlec 3y ago
  "If democracy doesn't return the result we want we'll rig the system to return that result anyway"
  - glompers 3y ago
    George Washington in his transfer of power farewell speech warned Americans to avoid factionalism, right? But never mind that. Our party base (true speaking for either franchise that extracts rents from the need for electoral viability now) are more patriotic than that dude. Or we only have to outrun the slower party in order to successfully outrun the grizzly bear of being less best for the country. No other accountability applies for very long if your faction can still pull back ahead as the better one for some projective new future of America, but both factions by their own definition will always outrun the other in that shadow race.
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      The problem is you have half the country severely lacking in education and their thoughts and ideas about what is best for the country don't correspond to reality.
      - georgeplusplus 3y ago
        And Whose reality exactly is that? Have you lived outside the US? Socialites in expensive lavish cities are the minority in the world by far. The majority is what you just described, poverty, and lack of education to start. To them you are like Maria Antoinette telling them just eat cake from your cushy little San Fran bubble.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        It's not anyone's reality, it's reality, period. Yes, I've lived outside the US - I'm not even from the US. I've lived in 5 different countries. I don't really care how it seems. Ignorance, and offense at having that ignorance called out, is not a sufficient reason to burn a country to the ground and violate the rights of citizens. If it were up to that poor uneducated half of the US, most of them would push for the US to be closer to Gilead.
- nologic02 3y ago
  > The election definitely wasn't rigged, but if it had been necessary to do so I would have supported it. Can't ever repeat the disaster we had from 2016 - 2022 again. Ah yes, as a student of 1940s Jewish culture, I am quite fond of the "it didn't happen, but they deserved it" angle myself.
- robador 3y ago
  GOP made every effort to rig it, but failed.
- Eggsellence 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - SgtBastard 3y ago
    > I believe it was rigged Evidence: Trust me, bro.
ggm 3y ago
How can the FCC not regulate this?
- fallingknife 3y ago
  Because the FCC has to respect the first amendment
  - ggm 3y ago
    You think Alexa has 1st amendment rights, which apply to misinformation? It's a point still under discussion, nothing like settled law.
    - bdowling 3y ago
      A terrorist to one person is a freedom fighter to another. Misinformation is the same.
      - ggm 3y ago
        This isn't 4chan, there is an objective reality. Alexa telling people Trump won is in the same space as my digital girlfriend telling me to kill the Queen. It's not smart. If alexa told people to drink bleach, lawyers would be queueing up to hit Bezos for restitution. And, if you read the story the programmers intervened.
        bdowling 3y ago
        Whether a defendant can be held liable for false speech is a different question from whether the government can prohibit the speech in the first place. My prior comment was a bit tangential and sort of off-topic, but I'll leave it there for context.
        ben_w 3y ago
        > Whether a defendant can be held liable for false speech is a different question from whether the government can prohibit the speech in the first place. How is such a distinction useful? I can, physically, drive a car over a speed limit, resulting in a fine; the fine is the enforcement of the prohibition. For speech (in the broader sense that includes non-vocal publication) we also have various prohibitions such as copyright and (as Musk has found) influencing stock prices, which are still prohibitions even if when they can only be enforced after the event. Whether or not we should have such prohibitions/penalties specifically on AI models is something that I feel will be the defining political battle of the decade, and may yield different results in different polities: we already have very vocal cohorts who speak with anger of OpenAI "lobotomising" ChatGPT and "censoring" DALL•E (ditto Midjourney), while other vocal cohorts are appalled at the way even these models are being used to deceive, to sexualise, to propagandise, etc.
nologic01 3y ago
Inane "AI" regurgitating what it is parsing from social media echo chambers as the epitome of "progress". You cant blame algorithms. People will get the digital society they deserve. Unless they do something about it. A sane online world will not materialize as a god-given present. It will the result of informed, enlightened and passionate people banging about the cause for as long as it takes. The challenge is commensurate with any of the major civic struggles of the past.
- Rhubi 3y ago
  Or maybe our masters to be could put a little more effort into what goes into their black boxes instead of counting their future fortunes.
- ALittleLight 3y ago
  Why can't I blame algorithms? These are heuristics that often misinform people. In my view someone, maybe Biden or the DNC or the FEC or the people asking Alexa, should have a claim to sue Amazon for something like defamation. Amazon has a reckless disregard for the truth and publishes lies through Alexa. (Assuming all this is true, no opinion on that). If Amazon gets sued enough they'll either make their service better or discontinue it.
  - swores 3y ago
    Sounds like you support blaming the creators / users of algorithms, not the algorithms themselves? Even if the best solution were to make these types of algorithms & code illegal, it still wouldn't exactly be "blaming" the algorithms - the same as when people call for gun control they're still blaming the shooters of guns for the actual crimes committed, not the guns, but banning the guns is seen (by gun control advocates) as a way of preventing those bad actors from doing what they'd otherwise do.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - GTP 3y ago
3np 3y ago
Re-report of https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/07/amazon-alexa-news-2020-election-misinformation/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/07/amazon-... https://archive.is/uePlD https://archive.is/uePlD
shrubble 3y ago
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/ https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/ Maybe the large amount of links to this article fed into that. When I searched for this article the first page of results was pointing to lots of sites that pointed to it; in fact I couldn't find the time.com URL directly....
ChatGTP 3y ago
AI offers improved civility for polarizing online conversations Another heading on the front page of hacker news right now...
cbeach 3y ago
Clinton and Pelosi claimed the 2016 election was rigged. But they weren’t accused of conspiracy theory (or sedition). So it’s interesting how we’re so quick to judge people who question the 2020 result. Particularly given the outright corruption uncovered in The Big Guy’s regime and the government agencies that manipulated social media to cover it up.
- willis936 3y ago
  I must have missed where Clinton and Pelosi orchestrated the halting of the transition of power by threatening the lives of hundreds of legislators.
  - cbeach 3y ago
    Perhaps Clinton and Pelosi’s arguments simply weren’t convincing enough? Some of Trump’s last tweets (before his first amendment rights were violated and his tweets were hidden from the public): “Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!” “I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!” https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346912780700577792?s=46&t=V_LFasefQl-Q0BteAGBqDg https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346912780700577792?s=4... Fair to say he also questioned the election process in strong terms. But so did Nancy Pelosi in 2016 when she said: “ Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.” https://x.com/speakerpelosi/status/864522009048494080?s=46&t=V_LFasefQl-Q0BteAGBqDg https://x.com/speakerpelosi/status/864522009048494080?s=46&t...
    - willis936 3y ago
      You will note the times of those tweets are several hours after congress had been fully taken over. I said Clinton and Pelosi did not orchestrate violence because they didn't and Trump did. He rallied in DC. He told them to march on the capital. I could tell this would happen just from rhetoric in speeches in the preceding week. All of this deflection is nonsense.

Well that's just going to fuel more conspiracy theories. Sigh. It was amazing when states like PA were counting and clearly said results will change by the morning, and when that happened and people woke up to a different result they started crying conspiracy. The election definitely wasn't rigged, but if it had been necessary to do so I would have supported it. Can't ever repeat the disaster we had from 2016 - 2022 again.

olgeni 3y ago
> but if it had been necessary to do so I would have supported it. And this is not going to fuel more conspiracy theories, at all \o/
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  The people that fail to reason will continue to fail to reason regardless of any comment I make.
  - w4ffl35 3y ago
    You stated you are in favor of rigging elections in order to prevent a person you don't want to be president to become president. Nothing you say on this topic is worth listening to.
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      Not quite. It's not just about personal preferences. It's about someone who is a clear and present danger to our way of life and the security of the country.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - w4ffl35 3y ago
        That is your personal opinion. A large potion of Americans feel differently than you. You may have strong feelings about this, but you aren't allowed to force an outcome on society because of it. You are advocating for fascism and rigged elections because you don't like a president's style.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        Those Americans are wrong, and most deserve the 'deplorable' moniker they were given. Most of them shouldn't have a right to vote in the first place IMO. And to downplay the issues as 'a president's style' is incredibly disingenuous.
        w4ffl35 3y ago
        These are simply more opinions and do not justify your desire to enact fascism via rigged elections.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        No, not opinions. Demonstrable facts.
        ginsider_oaks 3y ago
        > Most of them shouldn't have a right to vote in the first place [in my opinion]. > > These are simply more opinions [...] > > > No, not opinions. Demonstrable facts. you're going to have to explain this one to me
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        Most of the positions of people who vote GOP are untenable and at odds with our current understanding. Denying climate change is a good example. Voting on that basis has, and will continue to have real damage for citizens of the country, and thus the country as an entity.
AllegedAlec 3y ago
"If democracy doesn't return the result we want we'll rig the system to return that result anyway"
- glompers 3y ago
  George Washington in his transfer of power farewell speech warned Americans to avoid factionalism, right? But never mind that. Our party base (true speaking for either franchise that extracts rents from the need for electoral viability now) are more patriotic than that dude. Or we only have to outrun the slower party in order to successfully outrun the grizzly bear of being less best for the country. No other accountability applies for very long if your faction can still pull back ahead as the better one for some projective new future of America, but both factions by their own definition will always outrun the other in that shadow race.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    The problem is you have half the country severely lacking in education and their thoughts and ideas about what is best for the country don't correspond to reality.
    - georgeplusplus 3y ago
      And Whose reality exactly is that? Have you lived outside the US? Socialites in expensive lavish cities are the minority in the world by far. The majority is what you just described, poverty, and lack of education to start. To them you are like Maria Antoinette telling them just eat cake from your cushy little San Fran bubble.
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        It's not anyone's reality, it's reality, period. Yes, I've lived outside the US - I'm not even from the US. I've lived in 5 different countries. I don't really care how it seems. Ignorance, and offense at having that ignorance called out, is not a sufficient reason to burn a country to the ground and violate the rights of citizens. If it were up to that poor uneducated half of the US, most of them would push for the US to be closer to Gilead.
nologic02 3y ago
> The election definitely wasn't rigged, but if it had been necessary to do so I would have supported it. Can't ever repeat the disaster we had from 2016 - 2022 again. Ah yes, as a student of 1940s Jewish culture, I am quite fond of the "it didn't happen, but they deserved it" angle myself.
robador 3y ago
GOP made every effort to rig it, but failed.
Eggsellence 3y ago
[flagged]
- SgtBastard 3y ago
  > I believe it was rigged Evidence: Trust me, bro.

ggm 3y ago

How can the FCC not regulate this?

fallingknife 3y ago
Because the FCC has to respect the first amendment
- ggm 3y ago
  You think Alexa has 1st amendment rights, which apply to misinformation? It's a point still under discussion, nothing like settled law.
  - bdowling 3y ago
    A terrorist to one person is a freedom fighter to another. Misinformation is the same.
    - ggm 3y ago
      This isn't 4chan, there is an objective reality. Alexa telling people Trump won is in the same space as my digital girlfriend telling me to kill the Queen. It's not smart. If alexa told people to drink bleach, lawyers would be queueing up to hit Bezos for restitution. And, if you read the story the programmers intervened.
      - bdowling 3y ago
        Whether a defendant can be held liable for false speech is a different question from whether the government can prohibit the speech in the first place. My prior comment was a bit tangential and sort of off-topic, but I'll leave it there for context.
        ben_w 3y ago
        > Whether a defendant can be held liable for false speech is a different question from whether the government can prohibit the speech in the first place. How is such a distinction useful? I can, physically, drive a car over a speed limit, resulting in a fine; the fine is the enforcement of the prohibition. For speech (in the broader sense that includes non-vocal publication) we also have various prohibitions such as copyright and (as Musk has found) influencing stock prices, which are still prohibitions even if when they can only be enforced after the event. Whether or not we should have such prohibitions/penalties specifically on AI models is something that I feel will be the defining political battle of the decade, and may yield different results in different polities: we already have very vocal cohorts who speak with anger of OpenAI "lobotomising" ChatGPT and "censoring" DALL•E (ditto Midjourney), while other vocal cohorts are appalled at the way even these models are being used to deceive, to sexualise, to propagandise, etc.

nologic01 3y ago

Inane "AI" regurgitating what it is parsing from social media echo chambers as the epitome of "progress". You cant blame algorithms. People will get the digital society they deserve. Unless they do something about it. A sane online world will not materialize as a god-given present. It will the result of informed, enlightened and passionate people banging about the cause for as long as it takes. The challenge is commensurate with any of the major civic struggles of the past.

Rhubi 3y ago
Or maybe our masters to be could put a little more effort into what goes into their black boxes instead of counting their future fortunes.
ALittleLight 3y ago
Why can't I blame algorithms? These are heuristics that often misinform people. In my view someone, maybe Biden or the DNC or the FEC or the people asking Alexa, should have a claim to sue Amazon for something like defamation. Amazon has a reckless disregard for the truth and publishes lies through Alexa. (Assuming all this is true, no opinion on that). If Amazon gets sued enough they'll either make their service better or discontinue it.
- swores 3y ago
  Sounds like you support blaming the creators / users of algorithms, not the algorithms themselves? Even if the best solution were to make these types of algorithms & code illegal, it still wouldn't exactly be "blaming" the algorithms - the same as when people call for gun control they're still blaming the shooters of guns for the actual crimes committed, not the guns, but banning the guns is seen (by gun control advocates) as a way of preventing those bad actors from doing what they'd otherwise do.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - GTP 3y ago

3np 3y ago

Re-report of https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/07/amazon-alexa-news-2020-election-misinformation/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/07/amazon-... https://archive.is/uePlD https://archive.is/uePlD

shrubble 3y ago

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/ https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/ Maybe the large amount of links to this article fed into that. When I searched for this article the first page of results was pointing to lots of sites that pointed to it; in fact I couldn't find the time.com URL directly....

ChatGTP 3y ago

AI offers improved civility for polarizing online conversations Another heading on the front page of hacker news right now...

cbeach 3y ago

Clinton and Pelosi claimed the 2016 election was rigged. But they weren’t accused of conspiracy theory (or sedition). So it’s interesting how we’re so quick to judge people who question the 2020 result. Particularly given the outright corruption uncovered in The Big Guy’s regime and the government agencies that manipulated social media to cover it up.

willis936 3y ago
I must have missed where Clinton and Pelosi orchestrated the halting of the transition of power by threatening the lives of hundreds of legislators.
- cbeach 3y ago
  Perhaps Clinton and Pelosi’s arguments simply weren’t convincing enough? Some of Trump’s last tweets (before his first amendment rights were violated and his tweets were hidden from the public): “Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!” “I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!” https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346912780700577792?s=46&t=V_LFasefQl-Q0BteAGBqDg https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346912780700577792?s=4... Fair to say he also questioned the election process in strong terms. But so did Nancy Pelosi in 2016 when she said: “ Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.” https://x.com/speakerpelosi/status/864522009048494080?s=46&t=V_LFasefQl-Q0BteAGBqDg https://x.com/speakerpelosi/status/864522009048494080?s=46&t...
  - willis936 3y ago
    You will note the times of those tweets are several hours after congress had been fully taken over. I said Clinton and Pelosi did not orchestrate violence because they didn't and Trump did. He rallied in DC. He told them to march on the capital. I could tell this would happen just from rhetoric in speeches in the preceding week. All of this deflection is nonsense.