4 ms·

An implantable device could enable injection-free control of diabetes

152 points by thebigspacefuck 3y ago

onetokeoverthe 3y ago
[dead]
idontknoworcare 3y ago
[flagged]
- cursuve 3y ago
  I like how you think you just found the cure to Type 1 Diabetes... It doesn't work like that. People on keto/carnivore still need insulin to digest the protein and proteins will still eventually elevate the blood sugar. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9416027/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9416027/
- GordonS 3y ago
  Doesn't that only work for T2 diabetes?
jmercouris 3y ago
Why does the radio antenna need to be outside of the body for energy harvesting? Why not just use a pair of terminals in that case?
- scotty79 3y ago
  "A tuned magnetic coil located outside the body transmits power to a small, flexible antenna within the device, allowing for wireless power transfer." Energy reciever is completely inside the body and the energy transmitter completely outside. Piercing skin for prolonged times is generally a very bad idea because it's a channel for infection.
  - jmercouris 3y ago
    I see, thank you! I had totally misunderstood.
blackle 3y ago
> generates oxygen by splitting water vapor found in the body This will also generate hydrogen. Is there any mention in the paper about what happens to the waste hydrogen? I can't get past the paywall and I'm curious
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Something like this happens: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD-3vE_R7p8&pp=ygUoY2hhcmxpZSBhbmQgdGhlIGNob2NvbGF0ZSBmYWN0b3J5IGZseWluZw%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD-3vE_R7p8&pp=ygUoY2hhcmxpZSB...
- Expez 3y ago
  The article says it will "diffuse away" which implies they just let it escape the device. It'll then move through the tissue / fluids, reach the blood and eventually be breathed out. I did a quick google search to see if we already had some level of hydrogen gas in our body. It seems that bacteria in the human gut already produce some hydrogen gas and that breath contains measurable levels of it[0]. This was news to me, but means that dumping a tiny amount of H2 into the body is probably fine. [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00216-013-7606-6 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00216-013-7606-6
- jaggederest 3y ago
  Hydrogen in the body is not normally a problem. It's such a light gas that it diffuses out the lungs readily, if it's in diatomic form, and your body has good mechanisms for dealing with ionized hydrogen already. Most people's gut already produces hydrogen (normal levels at or below 16ppm in breath)
  - CommitSyn 3y ago
    That's in the gut, but I wonder how that works when it's pumped out into the subcutaneous fat layer.
    - kadoban 3y ago
      It's an interesting question, but I suspect it's not a big deal. H2 is _very_ good at escaping, doesn't really do anything biologically, and our bodies already have ways to get rid of small amounts of gas from various places. I'm curious if it'd just do the same thing that CO2 does. That might all just be governed by physics and there probably isn't much chemistry involved in that being expelled after it's generated in cells? I looked up the solubility of H2 in water, and it is _much_ worse than CO2's, so maybe that does suggest it'd at least not use the same mechanisms to escape, not sure.
dave8088 3y ago
“ Most patients with Type 1 diabetes have to monitor their blood glucose levels carefully and inject themselves with insulin at least once a day.” Once a day lol. Tell me you don’t know anything about Type 1 diabetes without telling me you don’t know anything about type 1 diabetes.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- terminalcommand 3y ago
  Another T1 here, fast-acting insulin wasn't invented until recently. One large dose of mixed insulin and a fixed diet may have been prescribed back in the day.
  - consp 3y ago
    Before fast acting there was human analog, this is also somewhat short term. What was quite common for a while was the mixed insulins (the cloudy ones you would have to make sure mixed before injecting) which you took twice a day. The same could be achieved with individual doses of course. In general the very long acting insulins are highly variable and not much subscribed (as in they work between 12 and 48h, good luck if it varies a lot). Long story short, NPH insulins for medium length (about 18h to a day but still lots of variation) was available since the 50's and was usually combined with normal human analog in either a mixture taken twice a day or in separate doses. I was on the twice a day regime of mixtard for most of the 90's.
    - terminalcommand 3y ago
      Thank you for enlightening us, I was diagnosed around 2004. At that time, fast acting insulin was the norm. But I knew that some patients used mixed insulin. I still know T1Ds who continue to use mixed insulin, because it works for them.
      - eep_social 3y ago
XorNot 3y ago
This is the coolest bit of biotech I've seen lately because the approach feels very complete: custom cells so the device is self-regenerative, and an encapsulation system so it's protected from the immune system. It does make you wonder what else could be done: i.e. could we implant some cells which produce antivenom?
- chpatrick 3y ago
  Or drugs like in Culture.
  - inhumantsar 3y ago
    Out of all the wild future tech in those books, a universally accessible easily controllable gland capable of pumping out whatever molecules the body could use, from hormones to party drugs, still stands out as the single most beneficial thing possible.
    - CommitSyn 3y ago
      As a kid I had an idea for a pill that would do that. I had no idea how it would work if course, but I thought one day in the future we could have a pill that you took that detected issues with the body and produced the needed drugs to fix it, so nobody needs to take a bunch of pills or the wrong pills. I'll have to read it.
alexcaps 3y ago
I would love to finally see some progress here. Worked on something similar 20+ years ago and got so burned out by the process and huge amount of capital needed. https://www.inknowvation.com/sbir/companies/solgene-therapeutics-llc https://www.inknowvation.com/sbir/companies/solgene-therapeu... “ Solgene Therapeutics' patented drug-delivery technology enables the encapsulation, in a porous ceramic material, of living cells that secrete therapeutic compounds. After implantation, the material shields the encapsulated cells from the host's immune system while allowing passage of nutrients and therapeutic cell-secreted compounds. Implanted cells continue to function, thus mimicking natural processes. Solgene believes it can create competitive advantages in under-served biotech markets. It seeks revenues through alliances to commercialize hard-to-deliver, cell-secreted, large-molecule therapies. Solgene proved its concept by overcoming diabetes in diabetic mice. Target applications include delivery of livestock therapies, growth factors for bone healing, and a cell-secreted HIV therapy.”
wolverine876 3y ago
For the oxygen supply there's a techology, already widely used, that runs 24/7 with no marginal maintenance cost. It takes O2 from the environment and outputs waste as a gas back into the environment, has a distribution system that can reach the entire body, and even its own pump that is self-repairing and typically lasts 70-100 years. Seriously, why not extract O2 from the bloodstream? Is it that difficult? I don't doubt they considered this option; I just wonder what the issues are.
- CommitSyn 3y ago
  Speaking as a layman here. I do know which one is safer, as to gain access to blood you have to gain access to a vein, likely by inserting a small tube made of [something] inside the vein, expect it to never break down and enter the bloodstream, become compromised, or be hit with an impact and tear the vein open to create internal bleeding. Then you also have to have a system to get rid of the waste blood (everything but the small amount of oxygen you want) all entirely within a closed system implanted into the arm, thigh, etc.
  - nonplus 3y ago
    Also a layman (but t1d), I believe what you are saying is correct/Insulin is injected into fatty tissue, and I presume this implant would go in fatty tissue. Getting to a vein sounds like a much higher risk.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > vein Artery - not a lot of O2 in veins. But other than nitpicking defensively, I agree those good points. I'd still like to see what any actual bio-whatever engineers have to say.
    - MRtecno98 3y ago
      Well, if you're going to be really nitpicky, pulmonary veins also carry oxygenated blood ;)

onetokeoverthe 3y ago

[dead]

idontknoworcare 3y ago

[flagged]

cursuve 3y ago
I like how you think you just found the cure to Type 1 Diabetes... It doesn't work like that. People on keto/carnivore still need insulin to digest the protein and proteins will still eventually elevate the blood sugar. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9416027/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9416027/
GordonS 3y ago
Doesn't that only work for T2 diabetes?

jmercouris 3y ago

Why does the radio antenna need to be outside of the body for energy harvesting? Why not just use a pair of terminals in that case?

scotty79 3y ago
"A tuned magnetic coil located outside the body transmits power to a small, flexible antenna within the device, allowing for wireless power transfer." Energy reciever is completely inside the body and the energy transmitter completely outside. Piercing skin for prolonged times is generally a very bad idea because it's a channel for infection.
- jmercouris 3y ago
  I see, thank you! I had totally misunderstood.

blackle 3y ago

> generates oxygen by splitting water vapor found in the body This will also generate hydrogen. Is there any mention in the paper about what happens to the waste hydrogen? I can't get past the paywall and I'm curious

willcipriano 3y ago
Something like this happens: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD-3vE_R7p8&pp=ygUoY2hhcmxpZSBhbmQgdGhlIGNob2NvbGF0ZSBmYWN0b3J5IGZseWluZw%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD-3vE_R7p8&pp=ygUoY2hhcmxpZSB...
Expez 3y ago
The article says it will "diffuse away" which implies they just let it escape the device. It'll then move through the tissue / fluids, reach the blood and eventually be breathed out. I did a quick google search to see if we already had some level of hydrogen gas in our body. It seems that bacteria in the human gut already produce some hydrogen gas and that breath contains measurable levels of it[0]. This was news to me, but means that dumping a tiny amount of H2 into the body is probably fine. [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00216-013-7606-6 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00216-013-7606-6
jaggederest 3y ago
Hydrogen in the body is not normally a problem. It's such a light gas that it diffuses out the lungs readily, if it's in diatomic form, and your body has good mechanisms for dealing with ionized hydrogen already. Most people's gut already produces hydrogen (normal levels at or below 16ppm in breath)
- CommitSyn 3y ago
  That's in the gut, but I wonder how that works when it's pumped out into the subcutaneous fat layer.
  - kadoban 3y ago
    It's an interesting question, but I suspect it's not a big deal. H2 is _very_ good at escaping, doesn't really do anything biologically, and our bodies already have ways to get rid of small amounts of gas from various places. I'm curious if it'd just do the same thing that CO2 does. That might all just be governed by physics and there probably isn't much chemistry involved in that being expelled after it's generated in cells? I looked up the solubility of H2 in water, and it is _much_ worse than CO2's, so maybe that does suggest it'd at least not use the same mechanisms to escape, not sure.

dave8088 3y ago

“ Most patients with Type 1 diabetes have to monitor their blood glucose levels carefully and inject themselves with insulin at least once a day.” Once a day lol. Tell me you don’t know anything about Type 1 diabetes without telling me you don’t know anything about type 1 diabetes.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
terminalcommand 3y ago
Another T1 here, fast-acting insulin wasn't invented until recently. One large dose of mixed insulin and a fixed diet may have been prescribed back in the day.
- consp 3y ago
  Before fast acting there was human analog, this is also somewhat short term. What was quite common for a while was the mixed insulins (the cloudy ones you would have to make sure mixed before injecting) which you took twice a day. The same could be achieved with individual doses of course. In general the very long acting insulins are highly variable and not much subscribed (as in they work between 12 and 48h, good luck if it varies a lot). Long story short, NPH insulins for medium length (about 18h to a day but still lots of variation) was available since the 50's and was usually combined with normal human analog in either a mixture taken twice a day or in separate doses. I was on the twice a day regime of mixtard for most of the 90's.
  - terminalcommand 3y ago
    Thank you for enlightening us, I was diagnosed around 2004. At that time, fast acting insulin was the norm. But I knew that some patients used mixed insulin. I still know T1Ds who continue to use mixed insulin, because it works for them.
    - eep_social 3y ago

XorNot 3y ago

This is the coolest bit of biotech I've seen lately because the approach feels very complete: custom cells so the device is self-regenerative, and an encapsulation system so it's protected from the immune system. It does make you wonder what else could be done: i.e. could we implant some cells which produce antivenom?

chpatrick 3y ago
Or drugs like in Culture.
- inhumantsar 3y ago
  Out of all the wild future tech in those books, a universally accessible easily controllable gland capable of pumping out whatever molecules the body could use, from hormones to party drugs, still stands out as the single most beneficial thing possible.
  - CommitSyn 3y ago
    As a kid I had an idea for a pill that would do that. I had no idea how it would work if course, but I thought one day in the future we could have a pill that you took that detected issues with the body and produced the needed drugs to fix it, so nobody needs to take a bunch of pills or the wrong pills. I'll have to read it.

alexcaps 3y ago

I would love to finally see some progress here. Worked on something similar 20+ years ago and got so burned out by the process and huge amount of capital needed. https://www.inknowvation.com/sbir/companies/solgene-therapeutics-llc https://www.inknowvation.com/sbir/companies/solgene-therapeu... “ Solgene Therapeutics' patented drug-delivery technology enables the encapsulation, in a porous ceramic material, of living cells that secrete therapeutic compounds. After implantation, the material shields the encapsulated cells from the host's immune system while allowing passage of nutrients and therapeutic cell-secreted compounds. Implanted cells continue to function, thus mimicking natural processes. Solgene believes it can create competitive advantages in under-served biotech markets. It seeks revenues through alliances to commercialize hard-to-deliver, cell-secreted, large-molecule therapies. Solgene proved its concept by overcoming diabetes in diabetic mice. Target applications include delivery of livestock therapies, growth factors for bone healing, and a cell-secreted HIV therapy.”

wolverine876 3y ago

For the oxygen supply there's a techology, already widely used, that runs 24/7 with no marginal maintenance cost. It takes O2 from the environment and outputs waste as a gas back into the environment, has a distribution system that can reach the entire body, and even its own pump that is self-repairing and typically lasts 70-100 years. Seriously, why not extract O2 from the bloodstream? Is it that difficult? I don't doubt they considered this option; I just wonder what the issues are.

CommitSyn 3y ago
Speaking as a layman here. I do know which one is safer, as to gain access to blood you have to gain access to a vein, likely by inserting a small tube made of [something] inside the vein, expect it to never break down and enter the bloodstream, become compromised, or be hit with an impact and tear the vein open to create internal bleeding. Then you also have to have a system to get rid of the waste blood (everything but the small amount of oxygen you want) all entirely within a closed system implanted into the arm, thigh, etc.
- nonplus 3y ago
  Also a layman (but t1d), I believe what you are saying is correct/Insulin is injected into fatty tissue, and I presume this implant would go in fatty tissue. Getting to a vein sounds like a much higher risk.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > vein Artery - not a lot of O2 in veins. But other than nitpicking defensively, I agree those good points. I'd still like to see what any actual bio-whatever engineers have to say.
  - MRtecno98 3y ago
    Well, if you're going to be really nitpicky, pulmonary veins also carry oxygenated blood ;)