4 ms·

CCC was cancelled last year because of this and they are still making a big deal out of it this year. Why? The rest of German society doesn't care. I live in D

by 0xDEF 3y ago

CCC was cancelled last year because of this and they are still making a big deal out of it this year. Why? The rest of German society doesn't care. I live in Denmark and have been to plenty of social events in Germany in 2022 and 2023. Nobody cares anymore. Why does the CCC?

skrause 3y ago
Even last December there weren't any regulations in Germany that would have prevented the congress. It was a weird time last December: After the cancellation of the congress was announced, there was a large congress of intensive care workers in Germany where the attendees were going around mostly maskless. I mean, who would be better at estimating the risks? I also don't understand why the German hacker scene was and still is so much in favor Covid restrictions. There are hackerspaces that still require N95 masks today while in the general population nobody cares anymore. I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene.
- mr_mitm 3y ago
  > I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene. Completely agree. At the beginning of the pandemic, people who opposed the restrictions were considered selfish and showing a lack of solidarity, if not harmful. It quickly turned out that right-leaning people were more likely to oppose the restrictions. This turned the mask already into a symbol of virtue signaling which seemed to stuck with a certain part of the population. It seems that the only people left caring about COVID restrictions are left-leaning academics who, since I rarely encounter them IRL, spend a lot of time online. So exactly what the CCC is.
  - thesaintlives 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ahartmetz 3y ago
      Utter bullshit. They are somewhat leftist, but certainly not communist. Do you know what communist means or are you just using at as an insult?
      - thesaintlives 3y ago
        No. You are talking utter bullshit. The founder of my local maker space was an actual communist party member so yes I know what it means. He was not the only one and I have no doubt other maker spaces with close CCC ties will be similar. Somewhat leftist is the understatement of the year. Personally I have absolutely no problem with a persons political beliefs so that is not an insult. I have a problem with fascism. If I believe something different I should not be penalized or viewed as a threat. I am not a fan of the CCC or their organization and will continue to share my experiences of them with others.
    - zichy 3y ago
      You may want to look up the CCC‘s founding history.
      - dontupvoteme 3y ago
        Was there not some rather dramatic change in the leadership in the last ~5 years? Admittedly it's very murky to see how it's organized and run..
    - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - thesaintlives 3y ago
        Funny. Have you tried crack? Discussing maker spaces will be further down your priority list if you do. German maker spaces are not nice for people with different views i.e. not left wing. Simply not true.
- rdl 3y ago
  It's a combination of virtue signaling/perceiving the risk to be higher than others perceive it to be (right or wrong; not commenting on the merits), and the long lead times/limited financial reserves the org has in planning events. The go/no go decision had to be made months before, and there was some risk of covid restrictions being in place in December which would have made the event suck or not happen. Probably harder to cancel a single event in, say, 2019 over that level of risk, but easier to continue not running it in 2020, 2021, and then in 2022, I think. I really hope it happens this year.
- ketzu 3y ago
  > Even last December While I believe the general CCC public to be more careful regarding covid, I'd say they had to make that decision long before december. I don't know how long beforehand though, as many rules ran out around a year ago(? not super sure). > I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene. Out of curiosity, how would you describe the difference between virtue signaling and actually possessing a virtue, e.g., showing that you're a good member vs being a good member of the scene. For me, virtue signalling always seemed to imply words instead of actions, claiming things instead of doing things. But actually wearing masks and canceling events are actions to me, not just words. (This relies on the assumption that the people organizing the events and spaces, actually care about them, and don't just run them to show how much they care.)
  - dontupvoteme 3y ago
    Or it's simply that it wasn't pragmatic for them to take the risk, because it would be PR hit and the winter months are a likely time for new "waves" to hit.
tazjin 3y ago
Because obsession with the covid stuff is closely tied to political philosophy, and, as the CCC itself likes to say, the CCC is a political organisation.
thesaintlives 3y ago
Because they are complete bed-wetters! This is the generation who are frightened to even shake hands now. Man or mouse? Definitely mouse...

by 0xDEF 3y ago

skrause 3y ago

Even last December there weren't any regulations in Germany that would have prevented the congress. It was a weird time last December: After the cancellation of the congress was announced, there was a large congress of intensive care workers in Germany where the attendees were going around mostly maskless. I mean, who would be better at estimating the risks? I also don't understand why the German hacker scene was and still is so much in favor Covid restrictions. There are hackerspaces that still require N95 masks today while in the general population nobody cares anymore. I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene.

mr_mitm 3y ago
> I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene. Completely agree. At the beginning of the pandemic, people who opposed the restrictions were considered selfish and showing a lack of solidarity, if not harmful. It quickly turned out that right-leaning people were more likely to oppose the restrictions. This turned the mask already into a symbol of virtue signaling which seemed to stuck with a certain part of the population. It seems that the only people left caring about COVID restrictions are left-leaning academics who, since I rarely encounter them IRL, spend a lot of time online. So exactly what the CCC is.
- thesaintlives 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ahartmetz 3y ago
    Utter bullshit. They are somewhat leftist, but certainly not communist. Do you know what communist means or are you just using at as an insult?
    - thesaintlives 3y ago
      No. You are talking utter bullshit. The founder of my local maker space was an actual communist party member so yes I know what it means. He was not the only one and I have no doubt other maker spaces with close CCC ties will be similar. Somewhat leftist is the understatement of the year. Personally I have absolutely no problem with a persons political beliefs so that is not an insult. I have a problem with fascism. If I believe something different I should not be penalized or viewed as a threat. I am not a fan of the CCC or their organization and will continue to share my experiences of them with others.
  - zichy 3y ago
    You may want to look up the CCC‘s founding history.
    - dontupvoteme 3y ago
      Was there not some rather dramatic change in the leadership in the last ~5 years? Admittedly it's very murky to see how it's organized and run..
  - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - thesaintlives 3y ago
      Funny. Have you tried crack? Discussing maker spaces will be further down your priority list if you do. German maker spaces are not nice for people with different views i.e. not left wing. Simply not true.
rdl 3y ago
It's a combination of virtue signaling/perceiving the risk to be higher than others perceive it to be (right or wrong; not commenting on the merits), and the long lead times/limited financial reserves the org has in planning events. The go/no go decision had to be made months before, and there was some risk of covid restrictions being in place in December which would have made the event suck or not happen. Probably harder to cancel a single event in, say, 2019 over that level of risk, but easier to continue not running it in 2020, 2021, and then in 2022, I think. I really hope it happens this year.
ketzu 3y ago
> Even last December While I believe the general CCC public to be more careful regarding covid, I'd say they had to make that decision long before december. I don't know how long beforehand though, as many rules ran out around a year ago(? not super sure). > I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene. Out of curiosity, how would you describe the difference between virtue signaling and actually possessing a virtue, e.g., showing that you're a good member vs being a good member of the scene. For me, virtue signalling always seemed to imply words instead of actions, claiming things instead of doing things. But actually wearing masks and canceling events are actions to me, not just words. (This relies on the assumption that the people organizing the events and spaces, actually care about them, and don't just run them to show how much they care.)
- dontupvoteme 3y ago
  Or it's simply that it wasn't pragmatic for them to take the risk, because it would be PR hit and the winter months are a likely time for new "waves" to hit.

tazjin 3y ago

Because obsession with the covid stuff is closely tied to political philosophy, and, as the CCC itself likes to say, the CCC is a political organisation.

thesaintlives 3y ago

Because they are complete bed-wetters! This is the generation who are frightened to even shake hands now. Man or mouse? Definitely mouse...