6 ms·

> The 37C3 is guaranteed to take place unless prohibited by the authorities. All official infection control regulations will of course be implemented. The CCC a

by rapnie 3y ago

> The 37C3 is guaranteed to take place unless prohibited by the authorities. All official infection control regulations will of course be implemented. The CCC asks all participants to consider their own awareness of the health risks of large events before purchasing a ticket. Participants with cold symptoms are requested not to attend the event. This will keep quite a few people e.g. with existing health conditions or long covid from attending. There are still open conferences that keep Public Health Pledge [0] or similar into account for inclusion and to avoid being mass spreading events. [0] https://publichealthpledge.com/ https://publichealthpledge.com/

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kuschku 3y ago
There will be an infection control concept for the congress itself, but that's not fully planned as of yet. Many CCC spaces currently require proof of vaccination, daily testing and rigorous masking, and while Congress will likely be a less strict, you can expect similar rules nonetheless.
- paganel 3y ago
  > Many CCC spaces currently require proof of vaccination, daily testing and rigorous masking, Crazy to see those types of measures still in place as we’re more than half-way through 2023. That’s a good way to self-select their members, I guess.
  - kuschku 3y ago
    Well, society ignored the problem of infection through aerosols far too long. Now at least some care is taken, and some spaces bought and configured large air filter systems to allow unmasking without infection risk. You don't want a ransomware infected, malware spreading windows 95 PC in your intranet either unless it's heavily firewalled.
    - mr_mitm 3y ago
      > Now at least some care is taken, and some spaces bought and configured large air filter systems to allow unmasking without infection risk. You mean reduced infection risk. It's impossible to eliminate completely. And my gut feeling tells me that most people overestimate the amount of risk reduction caused by these air filters.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > Crazy to see those types of measures still in place as we’re more than half-way through 2023. Just because politicians have "declared" the pandemic over, it is by far not over yet - we are still seeing significant excess mortality [1], and across Germany many companies are complaining about significant amounts of people on sick leave, most noticeably in public transit. Guess where that comes from... it's a lot of Covid. SARS-CoV-2 is an incredibly dangerous virus and way too many people aren't even doing air purifiers any more because these are "too expensive to run" and whatnot. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230714-2 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d...
    - LeanderK 3y ago
      i think the pandemic is really over, it is endemic. I wonder when we will get back to baseline or whether we will have to live with deadlier virus than what's usual for some time. Just keep in mind that the flu isn't as harmless as it's usually portrait. Older or otherwise more vulnerable parts of the population died every year, with some really bad years. It's in some way part of life, a risk is always present. But looking at the statistics in your link it is not that obvious, as it looks like the excess mortality slowly converges to zero.
      - kuschku 3y ago
        Considering covid safety measures also help avoid the flu, the common cold, Norovirus and RSV, it'd be wise if we as society found a way to keep them up even if COVID becomes endemic. Especially considering how with every previous congress the congress flu had infected the vast majority of participants and caused them to be bedridden for the 1-2 weeks after.
        mozman 3y ago
        It’s the new normal, the virus is here to stay. I’ve already had it like most people and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to give my immune system practice.
- morita2342 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - kuschku 3y ago
    c3gelb and CERT are afaik responsible for planning the hygiene concept. Complaints or suggestions made here will likely fall on deaf ears.
  - mrna19 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
    Shit idea. Boosters are not widely available in many countries for people outside the risk group. In a lot of places you simply cannot get a booster currently unless you are a healthcare worker, or documented risk group. No, you can’t even get them privately at this time either.
    - morita2342 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
        The last available booster shot in many places was the third shot, way back in I think 2021. That’s “the most up to date and available booster” in many countries. The boosters since have been often only available to healthcare workers, the elderly, or those with preexisting conditions.
      - mr_mitm 3y ago
        Have right-wing extremists ever been a problem at the Congress?
        morita2342 3y ago
        Have you heard about fefe and his following?
noirscape 3y ago
I mean, that goes for a lot of big social events (wrt existing health conditions); immunocompromised people have always been at risk for that kinda stuff, even before COVID. It feels a tad absurd to demand following what are arguably unnecessary extra regulations at this point (vaccines have been made widely available for the majority of the populace; Germany has a non-booster vaccination rate of 72%, about 6% above the usual 2/3rds you need for herd immunity to kick in; 62% has at least one booster[0] - these are rates somewhat consistent across most of Europe at that[1] and purely anecdotally speaking, C3 leans heavily European in attendance). The insistence that masking up as a requirement is still necessary as if we're on the peak of COVID just strikes me as odd (and tends to not translate well outside online spaces anyway - good luck convincing people that masks are necessary when most of them took the vaccine the moment they could specifically so that life could get back to normal and they didn't need to mask up all the time; for most people, COVID as a pandemic ended when they got their vaccination). If you want to do it on your own terms, sure, nobody will stop you (in fact I think the world could learn a bit from the general tedency of masking up if they have a cold like they do in countries such as Japan out of general politeness) but to request events keep doing it for everyone is a bit silly. Following government regulations is the right call here. [0]: https://impfdashboard.de/en/ https://impfdashboard.de/en/ [1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccina... - stat is per 100 people; a rate of above 200 means that the majority of people also got their second shot.
- wink 3y ago
  But what does "majority of people also got their second shot" even mean now? - my last one was in late 2021 and my mom (a senior) has gotten like 5 overall. Also I've not even seen anything in the news lately, so maybe I'm just not looking at the right places but right now I am honestly not even sure if I should be getting more shots, or other ones, based on how the situation has developed in... about 22 months. My point being: I am simply not sure if these last 2 years haven't changed how we looked at the vaccination numbers back then, because e.g. omicron even came after people were still pushing for this "basic immunization".
ralferoo 3y ago
The problem with adopting requirements more stringent than national requirements is that many people may not be able to comply. As an example, one of the things this site suggests as an option is "Require vaccines, including boosters". In my country at least (UK), it's not yet possible for an individual to pay to have a booster and so the only way of getting another vaccine shot is for free via the NHS. However, this is only available if you are sufficiently old (I believe over 50) or in a "vulnerable group", so teachers, someone working in healthcare, or someone who has a pre-existing medical condition that makes them more likely to have more severe effects. So, far from making it more open to all, this suggestion massively limits the potential attendee pool. Of course, the other suggestions like not attending if you have any symptoms or having negative test results, seem like good steps in the right direction. Masking is another issue - maybe it'd be OK for a 1 day event, but personally, I wouldn't attend a 3 day event if I had to wear a mask the whole time, because they are uncomfortable for prolonged periods. I was super vigilant during and after COVID and always wore a mask when I would encounter people, but because I didn't enjoy wearing a mask, I decided it was better to largely stay at home where I didn't need to interact with people instead. I'm happy to agree that the preference to not wear a mask is selfish, but it's still an interesting question on how many people would choose to not attend because they don't want 3 days of discomfort compared to how many vulnerable people would choose to attend if everyone was wearing masks. My gut feeling is that people who are that vulnerable would still rather stay away and avoid crowds because there would still be a non-zero risk, but equally I can see that some people might be glad for an opportunity to finally do something in a larger group that's safer than normal larger groups.
- bookofjoe 3y ago
  >Masking is another issue - maybe it'd be OK for a 1 day event, but personally, I wouldn't attend a 3 day event if I had to wear a mask the whole time, because they are uncomfortable for prolonged periods. I guess it's all of matter of circumstance: as an anesthesiology resident/attending/private practitioner from 1977-2015, I normally wore a mask in the OR all day and sometimes all night. It never occurred to me that this was uncomfortable — it was like a fish in water: this is the life I had chosen.
mrna19 3y ago
[flagged]

by rapnie 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kuschku 3y ago

There will be an infection control concept for the congress itself, but that's not fully planned as of yet. Many CCC spaces currently require proof of vaccination, daily testing and rigorous masking, and while Congress will likely be a less strict, you can expect similar rules nonetheless.

paganel 3y ago
> Many CCC spaces currently require proof of vaccination, daily testing and rigorous masking, Crazy to see those types of measures still in place as we’re more than half-way through 2023. That’s a good way to self-select their members, I guess.
- kuschku 3y ago
  Well, society ignored the problem of infection through aerosols far too long. Now at least some care is taken, and some spaces bought and configured large air filter systems to allow unmasking without infection risk. You don't want a ransomware infected, malware spreading windows 95 PC in your intranet either unless it's heavily firewalled.
  - mr_mitm 3y ago
    > Now at least some care is taken, and some spaces bought and configured large air filter systems to allow unmasking without infection risk. You mean reduced infection risk. It's impossible to eliminate completely. And my gut feeling tells me that most people overestimate the amount of risk reduction caused by these air filters.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > Crazy to see those types of measures still in place as we’re more than half-way through 2023. Just because politicians have "declared" the pandemic over, it is by far not over yet - we are still seeing significant excess mortality [1], and across Germany many companies are complaining about significant amounts of people on sick leave, most noticeably in public transit. Guess where that comes from... it's a lot of Covid. SARS-CoV-2 is an incredibly dangerous virus and way too many people aren't even doing air purifiers any more because these are "too expensive to run" and whatnot. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230714-2 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d...
  - LeanderK 3y ago
    i think the pandemic is really over, it is endemic. I wonder when we will get back to baseline or whether we will have to live with deadlier virus than what's usual for some time. Just keep in mind that the flu isn't as harmless as it's usually portrait. Older or otherwise more vulnerable parts of the population died every year, with some really bad years. It's in some way part of life, a risk is always present. But looking at the statistics in your link it is not that obvious, as it looks like the excess mortality slowly converges to zero.
    - kuschku 3y ago
      Considering covid safety measures also help avoid the flu, the common cold, Norovirus and RSV, it'd be wise if we as society found a way to keep them up even if COVID becomes endemic. Especially considering how with every previous congress the congress flu had infected the vast majority of participants and caused them to be bedridden for the 1-2 weeks after.
      - mozman 3y ago
        It’s the new normal, the virus is here to stay. I’ve already had it like most people and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to give my immune system practice.
morita2342 3y ago
[flagged]
- kuschku 3y ago
  c3gelb and CERT are afaik responsible for planning the hygiene concept. Complaints or suggestions made here will likely fall on deaf ears.
- mrna19 3y ago
  [flagged]
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago
  Shit idea. Boosters are not widely available in many countries for people outside the risk group. In a lot of places you simply cannot get a booster currently unless you are a healthcare worker, or documented risk group. No, you can’t even get them privately at this time either.
  - morita2342 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
      The last available booster shot in many places was the third shot, way back in I think 2021. That’s “the most up to date and available booster” in many countries. The boosters since have been often only available to healthcare workers, the elderly, or those with preexisting conditions.
    - mr_mitm 3y ago
      Have right-wing extremists ever been a problem at the Congress?
      - morita2342 3y ago
        Have you heard about fefe and his following?

noirscape 3y ago

I mean, that goes for a lot of big social events (wrt existing health conditions); immunocompromised people have always been at risk for that kinda stuff, even before COVID. It feels a tad absurd to demand following what are arguably unnecessary extra regulations at this point (vaccines have been made widely available for the majority of the populace; Germany has a non-booster vaccination rate of 72%, about 6% above the usual 2/3rds you need for herd immunity to kick in; 62% has at least one booster[0] - these are rates somewhat consistent across most of Europe at that[1] and purely anecdotally speaking, C3 leans heavily European in attendance). The insistence that masking up as a requirement is still necessary as if we're on the peak of COVID just strikes me as odd (and tends to not translate well outside online spaces anyway - good luck convincing people that masks are necessary when most of them took the vaccine the moment they could specifically so that life could get back to normal and they didn't need to mask up all the time; for most people, COVID as a pandemic ended when they got their vaccination). If you want to do it on your own terms, sure, nobody will stop you (in fact I think the world could learn a bit from the general tedency of masking up if they have a cold like they do in countries such as Japan out of general politeness) but to request events keep doing it for everyone is a bit silly. Following government regulations is the right call here. [0]: https://impfdashboard.de/en/ https://impfdashboard.de/en/ [1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccina... - stat is per 100 people; a rate of above 200 means that the majority of people also got their second shot.

wink 3y ago
But what does "majority of people also got their second shot" even mean now? - my last one was in late 2021 and my mom (a senior) has gotten like 5 overall. Also I've not even seen anything in the news lately, so maybe I'm just not looking at the right places but right now I am honestly not even sure if I should be getting more shots, or other ones, based on how the situation has developed in... about 22 months. My point being: I am simply not sure if these last 2 years haven't changed how we looked at the vaccination numbers back then, because e.g. omicron even came after people were still pushing for this "basic immunization".

ralferoo 3y ago

The problem with adopting requirements more stringent than national requirements is that many people may not be able to comply. As an example, one of the things this site suggests as an option is "Require vaccines, including boosters". In my country at least (UK), it's not yet possible for an individual to pay to have a booster and so the only way of getting another vaccine shot is for free via the NHS. However, this is only available if you are sufficiently old (I believe over 50) or in a "vulnerable group", so teachers, someone working in healthcare, or someone who has a pre-existing medical condition that makes them more likely to have more severe effects. So, far from making it more open to all, this suggestion massively limits the potential attendee pool. Of course, the other suggestions like not attending if you have any symptoms or having negative test results, seem like good steps in the right direction. Masking is another issue - maybe it'd be OK for a 1 day event, but personally, I wouldn't attend a 3 day event if I had to wear a mask the whole time, because they are uncomfortable for prolonged periods. I was super vigilant during and after COVID and always wore a mask when I would encounter people, but because I didn't enjoy wearing a mask, I decided it was better to largely stay at home where I didn't need to interact with people instead. I'm happy to agree that the preference to not wear a mask is selfish, but it's still an interesting question on how many people would choose to not attend because they don't want 3 days of discomfort compared to how many vulnerable people would choose to attend if everyone was wearing masks. My gut feeling is that people who are that vulnerable would still rather stay away and avoid crowds because there would still be a non-zero risk, but equally I can see that some people might be glad for an opportunity to finally do something in a larger group that's safer than normal larger groups.

bookofjoe 3y ago
>Masking is another issue - maybe it'd be OK for a 1 day event, but personally, I wouldn't attend a 3 day event if I had to wear a mask the whole time, because they are uncomfortable for prolonged periods. I guess it's all of matter of circumstance: as an anesthesiology resident/attending/private practitioner from 1977-2015, I normally wore a mask in the OR all day and sometimes all night. It never occurred to me that this was uncomfortable — it was like a fish in water: this is the life I had chosen.

mrna19 3y ago

[flagged]