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stranger: Hey guys, my car was making a weird squealing sound the other day. Not knowing anything about cars, I went in there with a hammer and methodically hit

stranger: Hey guys, my car was making a weird squealing sound the other day. Not knowing anything about cars, I went in there with a hammer and methodically hit everything I saw that was moving. Eventually the squealing stopped. ianbutler: Congratulations! You're a car mechanic! And to be blunt, fuck anyone who disagrees with me!

beepbooptheory 3y ago
Its ok to feel anxiety around something that seemingly challenges your identity, but you don't have to fight so hard to hold on to such an unimportant part of your identity. Nobody is a programmer, really. We live in particular moment of the world where this new idea of professionalization tricks you into thinking sometimes what you are is first and foremost defined by what you trade on the labor market. And this is an especially potent spell for those, like us, who for right now particularly well compensated in this market. But either way you must try not to forget that this is just a kind of illusion. That we are more united by shared capacity than discriminated by "skill". Why not take joy in the idea that what you have devoted yourself to, presumably, can be a more shared and understood thing for the world at large than that of a doctor or college professor?
- AlmostGreyBeard 3y ago
  Nobody is real, everything is an illusion defined by your interpretation. Please. There is a standard definition of what a programmer is. Dood that had an llm create his code is not a programmer. You have to actually write code to program..
- mistrial9 3y ago
  engineer: do you need bonded insurance on this project? architect: do you want common design themes in the parts of this project? Philosopher: would you like frys with your burger sir?
  - footy 3y ago
    Philosophy is actually one of the majors with highest career earnings out of college. Also anecdotally, I know several people who majored in philosophy (one with a CS minor) and they all do quite well. I'm in my mid 30s and the people I'm talking about are between 28ish and 45.
    - mistrial9 3y ago
      > Philosophy is actually one of the majors with highest career earnings out of college. citation please!
      - footy 3y ago
        I was away for Thanksgiving Not sure if you'll still find this relevant, but here's a source I had saved where you can see philosophy is in the highest third: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/07/which-college-degrees-get-the-highest-salaries https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/07/which-college-degrees... And a now-somewhat-broken 538 article: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/philosophers-dont-get-much-respect-but-their-earnings-dont-suck/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/philosophers-dont-get-m...
      - pedrosorio 3y ago
        I don't know about a philosophy. But people with graduate degrees in Zoology seems to be doing well: https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors/ https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors/ For some reason it groups "philosophy and religious studies" and the latter might not lead to very high paying careers, so it's hard to tell what that means for "just" philosophy. The report [0] has them below the median of all "humanities and liberal arts" majors. [0] https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/The-Economic-Value-of-College-Majors-Full-Report-web-FINAL.pdf https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/The-Economic-V...
- claytongulick 3y ago
  > Nobody is a programmer, really Huh. So, being almost 50, having spent 35 of those years writing code and orienting the majority of my life around it - somehow that's separate from my identity? Do tell.
  - booleandilemma 3y ago
    People like the person you're responding to, who haven't spent any significant amount of time to develop any sort of skills, console themselves by saying that no one is anything, because they themselves are nothing. "No one is an artist. No one is a programmer. No one is a football player." It doesn't make any sense of course, but it makes them feel like less of a loser. It's a sad coping mechanism.
    - beepbooptheory 3y ago
      Aw. Life can be many things to people, friend. I feel like I know the meaning of commitment, and focus, but even if I didn't, that wouldn't make me a loser! You can live a life in ascetic focus toward mastery, or one filled with family and companionship and simple pleasure. Or something else entirely. It's all just people living life! I just think its more important to focus on what we do, rather than what we call ourselves. I don't think that precludes the existence of talented, amazing people!
      - booleandilemma 3y ago
        I'm not your friend, buddy :)
      - RugnirViking 3y ago
        The first step of learning any great skill is recognising that there are other people who are unimaginably better at it than you. The next step is understanding ways in which they are mere humans doing things you too can do. Then the next is going back to the first step, repeat ad nauseum. You will never reach the peak, and there will almost always be people below looking up at you. Try to find peace in this.
- krapp 3y ago
  Skill exists. Some of us are programmers. Some of us are artists, musicians, writers, photographers, engineers. The time we put into our craft, learning, practicing, has real value. AI does not replicate that value, at best it only steals it. We aren't united by shared capacity, because the capacity belongs to the AI, not to you. We don't share understanding because, when a black box does all the work, there's nothing for you to understand. You're standing in the dojo wearing the black belt you bought at Wal-Mart and condescending to the masters for acting as if any of the discipline and hard work they put in meant anything, because look - you have the same belt as everyone else, and didn't have to do shit for it. This is why people hate AI and the people who use it.
  - bobsmooth 3y ago
    >This is why people hate AI and the people who use it. And you all sound like luddites.
    - krapp 3y ago
      And you don't understand what the Luddites were about, because they weren't wrong.
      - bobsmooth 3y ago
        Yes, they were. Technology always advances. You either adapt or get left behind. You're just mad because after 100 years of industrialization it's finally coming after your job.
        krapp 3y ago
        To hell with progress. I don't want to live in the future where corporate black box AIs generate everything society considers "art" and "culture", where no one knows how to so much as code a for loop or draw a stick figure because human expression no longer has an outlet. I don't want to simply be forced to adapt to a life where my only option is to blindly consume what the machines feed me like I'm in a tube in the Matrix. Yes. It does make me mad. And I should be mad. Everyone who cares about anything but the bottom line should be mad. The wholesale commoditization and destruction of human intellectual skill and creative talent in service of the relentless pursuit of capitalism through automation is a bad thing and you should feel bad for cheering it on. "Adapt or get left behind" isn't what someone who actually cares about the quality of their craft says, it's what the Borg say before injecting their nanoprobes into your brain. "we only want to improve quality of life." Fuck that.
- PixyMisa 3y ago
  Because using ChatGPT doesn't make you a programmer anymore than using WebMD makes you a doctor.

beepbooptheory 3y ago

Its ok to feel anxiety around something that seemingly challenges your identity, but you don't have to fight so hard to hold on to such an unimportant part of your identity. Nobody is a programmer, really. We live in particular moment of the world where this new idea of professionalization tricks you into thinking sometimes what you are is first and foremost defined by what you trade on the labor market. And this is an especially potent spell for those, like us, who for right now particularly well compensated in this market. But either way you must try not to forget that this is just a kind of illusion. That we are more united by shared capacity than discriminated by "skill". Why not take joy in the idea that what you have devoted yourself to, presumably, can be a more shared and understood thing for the world at large than that of a doctor or college professor?

AlmostGreyBeard 3y ago
Nobody is real, everything is an illusion defined by your interpretation. Please. There is a standard definition of what a programmer is. Dood that had an llm create his code is not a programmer. You have to actually write code to program..
mistrial9 3y ago
engineer: do you need bonded insurance on this project? architect: do you want common design themes in the parts of this project? Philosopher: would you like frys with your burger sir?
- footy 3y ago
  Philosophy is actually one of the majors with highest career earnings out of college. Also anecdotally, I know several people who majored in philosophy (one with a CS minor) and they all do quite well. I'm in my mid 30s and the people I'm talking about are between 28ish and 45.
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    > Philosophy is actually one of the majors with highest career earnings out of college. citation please!
    - footy 3y ago
      I was away for Thanksgiving Not sure if you'll still find this relevant, but here's a source I had saved where you can see philosophy is in the highest third: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/07/which-college-degrees-get-the-highest-salaries https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/07/which-college-degrees... And a now-somewhat-broken 538 article: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/philosophers-dont-get-much-respect-but-their-earnings-dont-suck/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/philosophers-dont-get-m...
    - pedrosorio 3y ago
      I don't know about a philosophy. But people with graduate degrees in Zoology seems to be doing well: https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors/ https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors/ For some reason it groups "philosophy and religious studies" and the latter might not lead to very high paying careers, so it's hard to tell what that means for "just" philosophy. The report [0] has them below the median of all "humanities and liberal arts" majors. [0] https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/The-Economic-Value-of-College-Majors-Full-Report-web-FINAL.pdf https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/The-Economic-V...
claytongulick 3y ago
> Nobody is a programmer, really Huh. So, being almost 50, having spent 35 of those years writing code and orienting the majority of my life around it - somehow that's separate from my identity? Do tell.
- booleandilemma 3y ago
  People like the person you're responding to, who haven't spent any significant amount of time to develop any sort of skills, console themselves by saying that no one is anything, because they themselves are nothing. "No one is an artist. No one is a programmer. No one is a football player." It doesn't make any sense of course, but it makes them feel like less of a loser. It's a sad coping mechanism.
  - beepbooptheory 3y ago
    Aw. Life can be many things to people, friend. I feel like I know the meaning of commitment, and focus, but even if I didn't, that wouldn't make me a loser! You can live a life in ascetic focus toward mastery, or one filled with family and companionship and simple pleasure. Or something else entirely. It's all just people living life! I just think its more important to focus on what we do, rather than what we call ourselves. I don't think that precludes the existence of talented, amazing people!
    - booleandilemma 3y ago
      I'm not your friend, buddy :)
    - RugnirViking 3y ago
      The first step of learning any great skill is recognising that there are other people who are unimaginably better at it than you. The next step is understanding ways in which they are mere humans doing things you too can do. Then the next is going back to the first step, repeat ad nauseum. You will never reach the peak, and there will almost always be people below looking up at you. Try to find peace in this.
krapp 3y ago
Skill exists. Some of us are programmers. Some of us are artists, musicians, writers, photographers, engineers. The time we put into our craft, learning, practicing, has real value. AI does not replicate that value, at best it only steals it. We aren't united by shared capacity, because the capacity belongs to the AI, not to you. We don't share understanding because, when a black box does all the work, there's nothing for you to understand. You're standing in the dojo wearing the black belt you bought at Wal-Mart and condescending to the masters for acting as if any of the discipline and hard work they put in meant anything, because look - you have the same belt as everyone else, and didn't have to do shit for it. This is why people hate AI and the people who use it.
- bobsmooth 3y ago
  >This is why people hate AI and the people who use it. And you all sound like luddites.
  - krapp 3y ago
    And you don't understand what the Luddites were about, because they weren't wrong.
    - bobsmooth 3y ago
      Yes, they were. Technology always advances. You either adapt or get left behind. You're just mad because after 100 years of industrialization it's finally coming after your job.
      - krapp 3y ago
        To hell with progress. I don't want to live in the future where corporate black box AIs generate everything society considers "art" and "culture", where no one knows how to so much as code a for loop or draw a stick figure because human expression no longer has an outlet. I don't want to simply be forced to adapt to a life where my only option is to blindly consume what the machines feed me like I'm in a tube in the Matrix. Yes. It does make me mad. And I should be mad. Everyone who cares about anything but the bottom line should be mad. The wholesale commoditization and destruction of human intellectual skill and creative talent in service of the relentless pursuit of capitalism through automation is a bad thing and you should feel bad for cheering it on. "Adapt or get left behind" isn't what someone who actually cares about the quality of their craft says, it's what the Borg say before injecting their nanoprobes into your brain. "we only want to improve quality of life." Fuck that.
PixyMisa 3y ago
Because using ChatGPT doesn't make you a programmer anymore than using WebMD makes you a doctor.