5 ms·

Do google developers develop on Chromebooks ?

by slim 3y ago

AJRF 3y ago
All new devs are given Chromebooks unless they need a specific device (like a MacBook for iOS devs)
- nolist_policy 3y ago
  Are they still given a Debian workstation besides that? Didn't know they are dogfooding ChromeOS that seriously.
  - legolas2412 3y ago
    Nopes, everyone uses cloud VMs by default. These VMs were very powerful too.
    - curt15 3y ago
      Is gLinux[1] still a thing? https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioners/how-google-got-to-rolling-linux-releases-for-desktops https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioner...
      - wffurr 3y ago
        Yes; that’s what’s used on the VMs, workstations, and Linux laptops.
- westurner 3y ago
  But aren't devs also provided with: SSH, CI build minutes, and GCP budgets for containers and VMs? To actually dogfood Chromebooks internally like Chromebooks for Education and for Families, Google would need to deny its devs containers behind a greyed out "Turn on Linux" button and deny them access to Colab notebooks and AI platform etc (while only allowing Play Store apps); nothing to SSH to, no notebooks, no devpod, no local git repos (!), no local terminal to run e.g. pytest tests with, no devtools JS console, etc.
  - nolist_policy 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure the grayed out "Turn on Linux" button due to policy setting by the organization managing the Chromebook.
  - ajross 3y ago
    I don't follow? Software developers... aren't students or children. It's a different market with different product segmentation and feature sets, it just happens to run on the same hardware and OS. And it's true that schools and parents often demand that their kids not hack stuff that the "admins" don't understand. And maybe that's bad or misguided or whatever. But it's not a statement about using a Chromebook as a developer client, which IMHO works very well.
    - westurner 3y ago
      The kids can't code locally on a git repo on Chromebooks and run make; they don't even have a terminal. Googlers only code remotely on Chromebooks. The kids MUST be able to run `pytest arithmetic.ipynb` on whichever platform. (It was not appropriate for Google 2016-2020 (?) to decide that we should all accept WASM runtime vulnerabilities in sandboxed browser processes running as the same user instead of per-app SELinux contexts like Android requires since 4.4+, or instead of containers and VMs like almost all of Google's hosted apps and internal systems) Cannot believe there's not even a JS console on these for the kids (because "Inspect Element" and "Turn on Linux" are blocked for them all)
      - ajross 3y ago
        I'm still not understanding the criticism. You're saying it's bad that kids can't hack on their school-supplied/parent-managed computers. And... I think I agree, as far as it goes. But you're responding to a thread saying "Chromebooks are good for Developers", where's it's just not responsive. There's absolutely no reason schools or parents can't hand kids unmanaged/unrestricted Chromebooks; they just choose not to (for some good and some bad reasons). Take that up with schools and parents, I guess?
- mdwalters 3y ago
  Which brand, though? I have a feeling it's one of those first-party Google Chromebooks...
  - ajross 3y ago
    My daily driver right now is a mid-tier Tiger Lake board. You can get the equivalent for sub-$300 on Amazon. The client doesn't need to do much in the modern developer flow, running a browser, an X server and an ssh client is 90% of anything that needs to happen, with the occasional Linux Wayland client from the VM thrown in (Thunderbird for personal mail, occasional use of Audacity, stuff like that).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - fancl20 3y ago
    In most cases HP
  - wffurr 3y ago
    I have a couple of Samsungs and a Pixelbook. You can BYOD with Chromebooks, too, so you can pick smaller, lighter ones or ones with bigger screens than the standard offerings if you’re willing to pay for it.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  You can request the computer you want. They will push you towards Chromebook but you can pick a normal Linux machine or a MacBook or even a Windows computer (don't do this).
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Someone at Google needs to support the top 80% desktop market.
    - wffurr 3y ago
      I used a Windows laptop for some time. It made browser testing in IE significantly simpler and otherwise worked fine for running Chrome + remote access to workstation. It was also the only model offered with a garaged stylus, which I used and tested quite a lot. I used that laptop to skip over the lousy overheating butterfly MacBook generation. Now I have an M1 Pro MacBook like everyone else. They also offer Windows on the cloud VMs.
danwilkerson 3y ago
Yup!
LordDragonfang 3y ago
They do, but for the googlers I know it's just as a thin client for their remote desktop software (https://remotedesktop.google.com/ https://remotedesktop.google.com/).
xt00 3y ago
So wait to be specific here -- is the setup that people develop on: 1. chrome-os device 2. install a debian VM 3. do all their development in a VM where they can easily install packages they need etc? 4. so they are doing dev in a VM on a core-i3 intel machine I guess?
- mdwalters 3y ago
  Not exactly. There are some ways to install GNU/Linux distros on Chromebooks, the Eupnea project's Depthboot script[1], for example, lets users build/run a distro by extracting the rootfs from an ISO file, and apply Chromebook-specific patches, like using ChromeOS' kernel, using keyd to make patches to support the Chromebook keyboard's action keys, and much others. (Disclaimer: I'm the current maintainer of the Eupnea project.) [1]: https://github.com/eupnea-linux-backup/depthboot-builder https://github.com/eupnea-linux-backup/depthboot-builder
- danans 3y ago
  If the question is about Google, they use the Chromebooks to connect to cloud hosted dev environments. Often these days that's the internal cloud based IDE whose UI is VSCode based. For many legacy command line tasks, you SSH to a cloud workstation. More than ever though, you can get away with a lot of programming tasks without ever touching a terminal. For those who really want a traditional Linux Desktop environment, you use Chrome Remote Desktop to connect to the same cloud VM that you SSH to.
bitwize 3y ago
As I understand it, yes, albeit it's much easier at Google than some places. Google is pretty much a supercomputer with a company built around it; the Chromebook can serve as your terminal into that supercomputer, accessing your files, codebase, and other resources all remotely.

Do google developers develop on Chromebooks ?

by slim 3y ago

Do google developers develop on Chromebooks ?

AJRF 3y ago

All new devs are given Chromebooks unless they need a specific device (like a MacBook for iOS devs)

nolist_policy 3y ago
Are they still given a Debian workstation besides that? Didn't know they are dogfooding ChromeOS that seriously.
- legolas2412 3y ago
  Nopes, everyone uses cloud VMs by default. These VMs were very powerful too.
  - curt15 3y ago
    Is gLinux[1] still a thing? https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioners/how-google-got-to-rolling-linux-releases-for-desktops https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioner...
    - wffurr 3y ago
      Yes; that’s what’s used on the VMs, workstations, and Linux laptops.
westurner 3y ago
But aren't devs also provided with: SSH, CI build minutes, and GCP budgets for containers and VMs? To actually dogfood Chromebooks internally like Chromebooks for Education and for Families, Google would need to deny its devs containers behind a greyed out "Turn on Linux" button and deny them access to Colab notebooks and AI platform etc (while only allowing Play Store apps); nothing to SSH to, no notebooks, no devpod, no local git repos (!), no local terminal to run e.g. pytest tests with, no devtools JS console, etc.
- nolist_policy 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure the grayed out "Turn on Linux" button due to policy setting by the organization managing the Chromebook.
- ajross 3y ago
  I don't follow? Software developers... aren't students or children. It's a different market with different product segmentation and feature sets, it just happens to run on the same hardware and OS. And it's true that schools and parents often demand that their kids not hack stuff that the "admins" don't understand. And maybe that's bad or misguided or whatever. But it's not a statement about using a Chromebook as a developer client, which IMHO works very well.
  - westurner 3y ago
    The kids can't code locally on a git repo on Chromebooks and run make; they don't even have a terminal. Googlers only code remotely on Chromebooks. The kids MUST be able to run `pytest arithmetic.ipynb` on whichever platform. (It was not appropriate for Google 2016-2020 (?) to decide that we should all accept WASM runtime vulnerabilities in sandboxed browser processes running as the same user instead of per-app SELinux contexts like Android requires since 4.4+, or instead of containers and VMs like almost all of Google's hosted apps and internal systems) Cannot believe there's not even a JS console on these for the kids (because "Inspect Element" and "Turn on Linux" are blocked for them all)
    - ajross 3y ago
      I'm still not understanding the criticism. You're saying it's bad that kids can't hack on their school-supplied/parent-managed computers. And... I think I agree, as far as it goes. But you're responding to a thread saying "Chromebooks are good for Developers", where's it's just not responsive. There's absolutely no reason schools or parents can't hand kids unmanaged/unrestricted Chromebooks; they just choose not to (for some good and some bad reasons). Take that up with schools and parents, I guess?
mdwalters 3y ago
Which brand, though? I have a feeling it's one of those first-party Google Chromebooks...
- ajross 3y ago
  My daily driver right now is a mid-tier Tiger Lake board. You can get the equivalent for sub-$300 on Amazon. The client doesn't need to do much in the modern developer flow, running a browser, an X server and an ssh client is 90% of anything that needs to happen, with the occasional Linux Wayland client from the VM thrown in (Thunderbird for personal mail, occasional use of Audacity, stuff like that).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- fancl20 3y ago
  In most cases HP
- wffurr 3y ago
  I have a couple of Samsungs and a Pixelbook. You can BYOD with Chromebooks, too, so you can pick smaller, lighter ones or ones with bigger screens than the standard offerings if you’re willing to pay for it.
saagarjha 3y ago
You can request the computer you want. They will push you towards Chromebook but you can pick a normal Linux machine or a MacBook or even a Windows computer (don't do this).
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Someone at Google needs to support the top 80% desktop market.
  - wffurr 3y ago
    I used a Windows laptop for some time. It made browser testing in IE significantly simpler and otherwise worked fine for running Chrome + remote access to workstation. It was also the only model offered with a garaged stylus, which I used and tested quite a lot. I used that laptop to skip over the lousy overheating butterfly MacBook generation. Now I have an M1 Pro MacBook like everyone else. They also offer Windows on the cloud VMs.

danwilkerson 3y ago

Yup!

LordDragonfang 3y ago

They do, but for the googlers I know it's just as a thin client for their remote desktop software (https://remotedesktop.google.com/ https://remotedesktop.google.com/).

xt00 3y ago

So wait to be specific here -- is the setup that people develop on: 1. chrome-os device 2. install a debian VM 3. do all their development in a VM where they can easily install packages they need etc? 4. so they are doing dev in a VM on a core-i3 intel machine I guess?

mdwalters 3y ago
Not exactly. There are some ways to install GNU/Linux distros on Chromebooks, the Eupnea project's Depthboot script[1], for example, lets users build/run a distro by extracting the rootfs from an ISO file, and apply Chromebook-specific patches, like using ChromeOS' kernel, using keyd to make patches to support the Chromebook keyboard's action keys, and much others. (Disclaimer: I'm the current maintainer of the Eupnea project.) [1]: https://github.com/eupnea-linux-backup/depthboot-builder https://github.com/eupnea-linux-backup/depthboot-builder
danans 3y ago
If the question is about Google, they use the Chromebooks to connect to cloud hosted dev environments. Often these days that's the internal cloud based IDE whose UI is VSCode based. For many legacy command line tasks, you SSH to a cloud workstation. More than ever though, you can get away with a lot of programming tasks without ever touching a terminal. For those who really want a traditional Linux Desktop environment, you use Chrome Remote Desktop to connect to the same cloud VM that you SSH to.

bitwize 3y ago

As I understand it, yes, albeit it's much easier at Google than some places. Google is pretty much a supercomputer with a company built around it; the Chromebook can serve as your terminal into that supercomputer, accessing your files, codebase, and other resources all remotely.