21 ms·

Vivaldi on iOS

151 points by aeadio 3y ago

catlover76 3y ago
[flagged]
verandaguy 3y ago
I'm not seeing a whole lot about whether or not this uses WebKit or Blink -- and IIRC newer versions of iOS have relaxed the policy about needing to use WebKit.
- tpmx 3y ago
  Of course it's using WKWebView.
- Klonoar 3y ago
  You do not recall correctly. There is ongoing pressure to open that up and there have been changes to allow non-Safari default browsers, but at the moment WebKit is still the name of the game for iOS.
  - verandaguy 3y ago
    Appreciate the clarification, this sounds more in line with Apple's historical policies.
- Terretta 3y ago
  It sure seems most browser makers aren't trying very hard with the WebKit thing to still be themselves. Check out https://browser.kagi.com/ https://browser.kagi.com/ for one that wraps WebKit with web extensions and other goodness in a unique brand feeling browser. And of course https://www.icab.de/ https://www.icab.de/ for offering a unique WebKit experience for over a decade now: https://web.archive.org/web/20090426232408/http://www.icab.de/mobile.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090426232408/http://www.icab.d...
pluc 3y ago
Chrome on the App Store is nothing new.
denysonique 3y ago
Lack of an option to have the address bar at the bottom near the keyboard like on Safari, lack of address bar gestures for tab navigation. I don't see the iOS version of Vivaldi having any features that would be compelling enough to degrade my user experience by switching to it. The only other bottom address bar browser with gestures that I have seen is Kiwi on Android and I am surprised this paradigm is still not more common.
- cycomanic 3y ago
  firefox on android has had the addressbar at the bottom since focus was around at least.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    I think it's configurable?
    - rg111 3y ago
      Yes, you can change the position.
- mozman 3y ago
  I always prefer the address bar at the top, I use Firefox on iOS for this reason. Is there something I am missing out on?
  - keyle 3y ago
    You can change Safari to put the bar up top...
  - tiltowait 3y ago
    Easier to reach.
- vxNsr 3y ago
  Orion on iOS has addr bar on the bottom, also supports rich set of gestures for tab navigation, if you're looking for an alternative to safari on iOS I'd take a look at that. They also offer a mac option, no MS option yet.
rgreekguy 3y ago
I might have missed an update in the past couple of days, but, otherwise, the experience on a fully up-to-date iPad Mini is the same like in Android in the past. Maybe a bit worse, too. It happily crashes, lags, as in, the touches take a couple of seconds to register, and overheats the iPadlet like I've been using the pen for 30+ minutes in the summer. Also, I can not understand why they do not have the custom themes on mobile, Android or i*OS.
- aeadio 3y ago
  The slowness seems to come from rendering the desktop-style tab bar. With that disabled, the UI seems more or less as snappy as Safari on the iPhone.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
the_gipsy 3y ago
It's just a WebView, right? Illusions.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  What does it matter? All engines are supposed to display the content the same way anyway.
  - matsz 3y ago
    Can't speak for the OP, but "Takes a bite out of the Apple" implied to me an alternative engine at the first glance.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      yeah, i also read it to mean taking a large number of users.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    <snicker> yeah, "supposed to" is doing a quite a bit of heavy lifting. it has gotten soooo much better than in the past, but yet things still do slightly weird things depending on browser. the closer to the designer you are, the more you notice. by notice, i mean have it pointed out to you.
  - gloryjulio 3y ago
    Then this is a click baity title. There are tons of reskinned browsers, how is Vivaldi different form the rest?
  - howinteresting 3y ago
    It's not just about the engine itself, it's about things like supporting extensions. Safari's content blocker API is less powerful than Firefox's on desktop/Android, for example. I don't know how much of that is a technical engine limitation versus an Apple policy decision.
- meindnoch 3y ago
MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
If you’re not using Vivaldi on the desktop, this isn’t for you (yet). It doesn’t have many of the features that desktop Vivaldi has, and it doesn’t have many features that other browsers don’t. Right now the main feature of this is that it syncs with the desktop version, which is something that people (Vivaldi users) have been asking for for a long time. But Vivaldi (the company), over the course of many years, took their desktop browser from a Chromium clone to the most feature-packed browser currently available. I’m confidently they’ll do the same with their mobile browsers.
- yborg 3y ago
  Yeah, it doesn't have any of the integrated apps or any of the tab features (stacking/tiling). It does have an ad/tracker blocker built in (vs. Safari). But I use Firefox on iOS because it supports sync and Firefox is my primary desktop browser. I like Vivaldi, but not as privacy-focused as Firefox, they don't have Containers, for example, and I use that heavily.
  - bad_user 3y ago
    Safari on iOS does have ads blocking, e.g., AdGuard, Wipr, 1Blocker. It doesn't work so well versus uBlock Origin, ofc. Alternative browsers don't have that much control over what's rendered, so they are probably using the same content blocking functionality baked into Safari.
    - sanirank 3y ago
      Orion browser for iOS permits both Chrome and Firefox extensions. I have Firefox’s ublock origin installed on mine. Seems to work well so far.
      - bad_user 3y ago
        Good to know, will try it, although I don't understand how Firefox's uBlock Origin can work without having its own rendering engine. Are you sure it works?
haolez 3y ago
I've tried to use Vivaldi for a few weeks, but I kept getting hit by glitches and small annoyances that ended bringing me back to Chrome. There are nice ideas there, but if I were them, I'd focus on making sure you are not losing users before going all in on growth and features.
- unstatusthequo 3y ago
  Why not Brave? Chrome feels like quitting to me.
  - ShamelessC 3y ago
    Isn't Brave a Chromium fork?
  - haolez 3y ago
    It doesn't seem to offer anything special except "it's not chrome". Vivaldi has some nice design concepts, but it was getting in my way.
    - spdif899 3y ago
      "It's not chrome" is a pretty compelling feature for many. If you ignore Brave's insistence on following shitty web3 trends, it's an open source chromium fork that matches Chrome in performance and reliability while supporting the blocking of ads and trackers, and importantly ripping out all the ways Google sucks up all your usage data in Chrome.
  - jadbox 3y ago
    Vivaldi is a privately-owned co-op.
- MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
  Vivaldi's target users are power-users who want every feature imaginable. They're not adding new features to browser for "growth", they're adding new features to the browser because their founding philosophy is that software should be as flexible and powerful as possible.
albumen 3y ago
Orion is the first browser on iOS that has convinced me to move away from safari. From the Kagi team, and admittedly still in beta, it's fast, rejects telemetry, and allows install of Chrome and Firefox extensions. The built-in pop up and blocking is great, and nukes YT ads too. Still a little rough around the edges (sometimes freezes; restart it; and switching orientation is slow), but the pros outweigh the cons. https://browser.kagi.com/ https://browser.kagi.com/
- MrAlex94 3y ago
  Does it actually allow installation of WebExtensions on iOS? I thought that was currently against the App Store rules? Edit: I can’t find any hard and fast rule about browsers not being allowed WebExtensions on iOS, so interesting to see for sure.
  - microflash 3y ago
    It does allow installation of webextensions. Unfortunately, they are extremely buggy on iOS. I was pretty disappointed when uBlock Origin installed successfully but didn't do anything. Once the webextension support is stabilized, Orion can be a serious alternative to Safari.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- iguana_lawyer 3y ago
  I have tested this with half a dozen Chrome extensions and none of them worked. “Allows install” is misleading. “Allows download” is more accurate.
jbverschoor 3y ago
My thumb can’t stretch like that.. perhaps try out an app on real devices instead of simulators. Edit: It is quite fast. Search button tries to fix address bar location, but I don’t like it. Switching tabs is a pain and sweeping them interferes with iOS app switching. Difficult to add a new tab
leotravis10 3y ago
Although I appreciate Vivaldi for getting a iOS version out, do keep in mind that it's very inferior to Safari much like all non-Safari browsers on iOS running WebKit because of how very privileged Safari is and sadly their hands are very tied. The only hope is that the EU's DMA and DSA can allow third-party browsing engines on iOS eventually, and this release is a head start type of move toward that goal I feel. Until that happens, Safari will always be the only browser that truly matters if you use a iOS device and that's a fact.
- freediver 3y ago
  Can you give an example of such privileges?
  - leodriesch 3y ago
    Support for web extensions as an example (Safari extensions)
    - lhnz 3y ago
      Doesn't Kagi for iOS support web extensions already?
      - elashri 3y ago
        Not yet. The support is very limited.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    Safari's rendering and JavaScript engines are the only ones allowed to run on, or be distributed to, iOS.
    - freediver 3y ago
      That is technically WebKit, which is open source.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
joshcollie 3y ago
I find the promise of ‘unmatched personalisation’ or customisation lacklustre here. If you’re seeking something more customisable I’d suggest Quiche Browser. It’s a recent app by an independent developer that provides an experience that offers more UI customisation in a tasteful manner. Sure there are fewer bells and whistles features, but if you just want a minimal, privacy conscious browser that can adapt to you it may be worth a shot. https://apps.apple.com/app/quiche-browser/id1668363952 https://apps.apple.com/app/quiche-browser/id1668363952
- asicsp 3y ago
  Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36834732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36834732 (226 points | 74 days ago | 174 comments)
danpalmer 3y ago
> In most browsers on mobile, it’s difficult to keep track of many open tabs. > We’ve integrated an elegant desktop-style Tab Bar in the UI by default. I think there's a good reason why no mobile browsers implement desktop style tabs. Even the Vivaldi screenshots in this post show just 2.5 tabs with significant truncation of all the visible tabs. On tablet this might work (where other browsers have a more traditional tab view), but on portrait phone this seems like a terrible idea.
- corbezzoli 3y ago
  > no mobile browsers implement desktop style tabs iOS Safari has done it for a long time, since the first Plus iPhone, as long as you use it in portrait.
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    People aren't using devices like that. Most users barely even turn their phone for a horizontal video, let alone a web browser.
    - corbezzoli 3y ago
      Whether you think people do or don’t is irrelevant. The feature exists, unlike what you alleged.
- eviks 3y ago
  Their screenshot just illustrates their poor design defaults. If you could remove useless padding, make the icon smaller, and remove the close button (and the + button) like you can do on a desktop, you could fit more useful info there You could also do the same with the url bar, and then you're looking at just a bit more vertical space vs safari with more information and functionality
sgt 3y ago
According to Screen Time I am using my phone on average about 1.5 hours a day. I can't imagine a scenario where I would need a "speed dial" function to bring up many different sites at once, in order to do "real work". I use a computer for that. It's interesting to note that other people have entirely different usage patterns of their phones and actually prefer a small screen to a proper computer. Not saying either is right/wrong, just curious. How prevalent is this on HN, I wonder?

151 points by aeadio 3y ago

[flagged]

I'm not seeing a whole lot about whether or not this uses WebKit or Blink -- and IIRC newer versions of iOS have relaxed the policy about needing to use WebKit.

tpmx 3y ago
Of course it's using WKWebView.
Klonoar 3y ago
You do not recall correctly. There is ongoing pressure to open that up and there have been changes to allow non-Safari default browsers, but at the moment WebKit is still the name of the game for iOS.
- verandaguy 3y ago
  Appreciate the clarification, this sounds more in line with Apple's historical policies.
Terretta 3y ago
It sure seems most browser makers aren't trying very hard with the WebKit thing to still be themselves. Check out https://browser.kagi.com/ https://browser.kagi.com/ for one that wraps WebKit with web extensions and other goodness in a unique brand feeling browser. And of course https://www.icab.de/ https://www.icab.de/ for offering a unique WebKit experience for over a decade now: https://web.archive.org/web/20090426232408/http://www.icab.de/mobile.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090426232408/http://www.icab.d...

pluc 3y ago

Chrome on the App Store is nothing new.

denysonique 3y ago

Lack of an option to have the address bar at the bottom near the keyboard like on Safari, lack of address bar gestures for tab navigation. I don't see the iOS version of Vivaldi having any features that would be compelling enough to degrade my user experience by switching to it. The only other bottom address bar browser with gestures that I have seen is Kiwi on Android and I am surprised this paradigm is still not more common.

cycomanic 3y ago
firefox on android has had the addressbar at the bottom since focus was around at least.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  I think it's configurable?
  - rg111 3y ago
    Yes, you can change the position.
mozman 3y ago
I always prefer the address bar at the top, I use Firefox on iOS for this reason. Is there something I am missing out on?
- keyle 3y ago
  You can change Safari to put the bar up top...
- tiltowait 3y ago
  Easier to reach.
vxNsr 3y ago
Orion on iOS has addr bar on the bottom, also supports rich set of gestures for tab navigation, if you're looking for an alternative to safari on iOS I'd take a look at that. They also offer a mac option, no MS option yet.

rgreekguy 3y ago

I might have missed an update in the past couple of days, but, otherwise, the experience on a fully up-to-date iPad Mini is the same like in Android in the past. Maybe a bit worse, too. It happily crashes, lags, as in, the touches take a couple of seconds to register, and overheats the iPadlet like I've been using the pen for 30+ minutes in the summer. Also, I can not understand why they do not have the custom themes on mobile, Android or i*OS.

aeadio 3y ago
The slowness seems to come from rendering the desktop-style tab bar. With that disabled, the UI seems more or less as snappy as Safari on the iPhone.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

the_gipsy 3y ago

It's just a WebView, right? Illusions.

mrtksn 3y ago
What does it matter? All engines are supposed to display the content the same way anyway.
- matsz 3y ago
  Can't speak for the OP, but "Takes a bite out of the Apple" implied to me an alternative engine at the first glance.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    yeah, i also read it to mean taking a large number of users.
- dylan604 3y ago
  <snicker> yeah, "supposed to" is doing a quite a bit of heavy lifting. it has gotten soooo much better than in the past, but yet things still do slightly weird things depending on browser. the closer to the designer you are, the more you notice. by notice, i mean have it pointed out to you.
- gloryjulio 3y ago
  Then this is a click baity title. There are tons of reskinned browsers, how is Vivaldi different form the rest?
- howinteresting 3y ago
  It's not just about the engine itself, it's about things like supporting extensions. Safari's content blocker API is less powerful than Firefox's on desktop/Android, for example. I don't know how much of that is a technical engine limitation versus an Apple policy decision.
meindnoch 3y ago

MatthiasPortzel 3y ago

If you’re not using Vivaldi on the desktop, this isn’t for you (yet). It doesn’t have many of the features that desktop Vivaldi has, and it doesn’t have many features that other browsers don’t. Right now the main feature of this is that it syncs with the desktop version, which is something that people (Vivaldi users) have been asking for for a long time. But Vivaldi (the company), over the course of many years, took their desktop browser from a Chromium clone to the most feature-packed browser currently available. I’m confidently they’ll do the same with their mobile browsers.

yborg 3y ago
Yeah, it doesn't have any of the integrated apps or any of the tab features (stacking/tiling). It does have an ad/tracker blocker built in (vs. Safari). But I use Firefox on iOS because it supports sync and Firefox is my primary desktop browser. I like Vivaldi, but not as privacy-focused as Firefox, they don't have Containers, for example, and I use that heavily.
- bad_user 3y ago
  Safari on iOS does have ads blocking, e.g., AdGuard, Wipr, 1Blocker. It doesn't work so well versus uBlock Origin, ofc. Alternative browsers don't have that much control over what's rendered, so they are probably using the same content blocking functionality baked into Safari.
  - sanirank 3y ago
    Orion browser for iOS permits both Chrome and Firefox extensions. I have Firefox’s ublock origin installed on mine. Seems to work well so far.
    - bad_user 3y ago
      Good to know, will try it, although I don't understand how Firefox's uBlock Origin can work without having its own rendering engine. Are you sure it works?

haolez 3y ago

I've tried to use Vivaldi for a few weeks, but I kept getting hit by glitches and small annoyances that ended bringing me back to Chrome. There are nice ideas there, but if I were them, I'd focus on making sure you are not losing users before going all in on growth and features.

unstatusthequo 3y ago
Why not Brave? Chrome feels like quitting to me.
- ShamelessC 3y ago
  Isn't Brave a Chromium fork?
- haolez 3y ago
  It doesn't seem to offer anything special except "it's not chrome". Vivaldi has some nice design concepts, but it was getting in my way.
  - spdif899 3y ago
    "It's not chrome" is a pretty compelling feature for many. If you ignore Brave's insistence on following shitty web3 trends, it's an open source chromium fork that matches Chrome in performance and reliability while supporting the blocking of ads and trackers, and importantly ripping out all the ways Google sucks up all your usage data in Chrome.
- jadbox 3y ago
  Vivaldi is a privately-owned co-op.
MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
Vivaldi's target users are power-users who want every feature imaginable. They're not adding new features to browser for "growth", they're adding new features to the browser because their founding philosophy is that software should be as flexible and powerful as possible.

albumen 3y ago

Orion is the first browser on iOS that has convinced me to move away from safari. From the Kagi team, and admittedly still in beta, it's fast, rejects telemetry, and allows install of Chrome and Firefox extensions. The built-in pop up and blocking is great, and nukes YT ads too. Still a little rough around the edges (sometimes freezes; restart it; and switching orientation is slow), but the pros outweigh the cons. https://browser.kagi.com/ https://browser.kagi.com/

MrAlex94 3y ago
Does it actually allow installation of WebExtensions on iOS? I thought that was currently against the App Store rules? Edit: I can’t find any hard and fast rule about browsers not being allowed WebExtensions on iOS, so interesting to see for sure.
- microflash 3y ago
  It does allow installation of webextensions. Unfortunately, they are extremely buggy on iOS. I was pretty disappointed when uBlock Origin installed successfully but didn't do anything. Once the webextension support is stabilized, Orion can be a serious alternative to Safari.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
iguana_lawyer 3y ago
I have tested this with half a dozen Chrome extensions and none of them worked. “Allows install” is misleading. “Allows download” is more accurate.

jbverschoor 3y ago

My thumb can’t stretch like that.. perhaps try out an app on real devices instead of simulators. Edit: It is quite fast. Search button tries to fix address bar location, but I don’t like it. Switching tabs is a pain and sweeping them interferes with iOS app switching. Difficult to add a new tab

leotravis10 3y ago

Although I appreciate Vivaldi for getting a iOS version out, do keep in mind that it's very inferior to Safari much like all non-Safari browsers on iOS running WebKit because of how very privileged Safari is and sadly their hands are very tied. The only hope is that the EU's DMA and DSA can allow third-party browsing engines on iOS eventually, and this release is a head start type of move toward that goal I feel. Until that happens, Safari will always be the only browser that truly matters if you use a iOS device and that's a fact.

freediver 3y ago
Can you give an example of such privileges?
- leodriesch 3y ago
  Support for web extensions as an example (Safari extensions)
  - lhnz 3y ago
    Doesn't Kagi for iOS support web extensions already?
    - elashri 3y ago
      Not yet. The support is very limited.
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  Safari's rendering and JavaScript engines are the only ones allowed to run on, or be distributed to, iOS.
  - freediver 3y ago
    That is technically WebKit, which is open source.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

joshcollie 3y ago

I find the promise of ‘unmatched personalisation’ or customisation lacklustre here. If you’re seeking something more customisable I’d suggest Quiche Browser. It’s a recent app by an independent developer that provides an experience that offers more UI customisation in a tasteful manner. Sure there are fewer bells and whistles features, but if you just want a minimal, privacy conscious browser that can adapt to you it may be worth a shot. https://apps.apple.com/app/quiche-browser/id1668363952 https://apps.apple.com/app/quiche-browser/id1668363952

asicsp 3y ago
Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36834732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36834732 (226 points | 74 days ago | 174 comments)

danpalmer 3y ago

> In most browsers on mobile, it’s difficult to keep track of many open tabs. > We’ve integrated an elegant desktop-style Tab Bar in the UI by default. I think there's a good reason why no mobile browsers implement desktop style tabs. Even the Vivaldi screenshots in this post show just 2.5 tabs with significant truncation of all the visible tabs. On tablet this might work (where other browsers have a more traditional tab view), but on portrait phone this seems like a terrible idea.

corbezzoli 3y ago
> no mobile browsers implement desktop style tabs iOS Safari has done it for a long time, since the first Plus iPhone, as long as you use it in portrait.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  People aren't using devices like that. Most users barely even turn their phone for a horizontal video, let alone a web browser.
  - corbezzoli 3y ago
    Whether you think people do or don’t is irrelevant. The feature exists, unlike what you alleged.
eviks 3y ago
Their screenshot just illustrates their poor design defaults. If you could remove useless padding, make the icon smaller, and remove the close button (and the + button) like you can do on a desktop, you could fit more useful info there You could also do the same with the url bar, and then you're looking at just a bit more vertical space vs safari with more information and functionality

sgt 3y ago

According to Screen Time I am using my phone on average about 1.5 hours a day. I can't imagine a scenario where I would need a "speed dial" function to bring up many different sites at once, in order to do "real work". I use a computer for that. It's interesting to note that other people have entirely different usage patterns of their phones and actually prefer a small screen to a proper computer. Not saying either is right/wrong, just curious. How prevalent is this on HN, I wonder?