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Why does it say "5 developers $ 17k / month"? Is that 1 developer of $17k / month? (So a $204k annual salary?) Or, does it mean 5 developers for $17k / month

Why does it say "5 developers $ 17k / month"? Is that 1 developer of $17k / month? (So a $204k annual salary?) Or, does it mean 5 developers for $17k / month (i.e. a $40k annual salary?) If it's the latter, I'm highly concerned. Even in countries like India salaries like $60k USD (INR 50 lakh) has become a bare minimum for software engineers who are even the least bit talented... For a really good software developer in India, you'd have to pay circa $180k USD (INR 1.5 cr), which is still a massive discount compared to the US, since in the US that person would probably make around $350k. Where are they hiring people?

Uehreka 3y ago
Uhhh, $180k is an awesome developer salary in the US (as long as you’re not talking about silicon valley salaries, which most Americans aren’t). There are also definitely juniors in the US making $60k (and probably even less).
- winter_blue 3y ago
  > as long as you’re not talking about silicon valley salaries, which most Americans aren’t Since WFH became more common, high salaries have spread across the US. Several members of my team are earning $250k to $400k (depending on their level), and are scattered across the US, and many are living super-LCOL cities. For example, one guy (who makes over $350k) lives in Utah, and around the start of COVID he bought a large house with a lot land surrounding it, for (to him) a measly $270k. > There are also definitely juniors in the US making $60k (and probably even less). Nobody should be making that little in the US. $120k is the minimum for a software engineer in the US, regardless of location. If a SWE is earning less than six figures in the US, they're certainly being swindled.
matkoniecz 3y ago
Many open source projects have people working for free and spending a lot of time on that. Even really low wages may enable more people to do this. I spend a lot of time on developing StreetComplete, got paid only for small part of that. And I would be able to spend more time on that and willing even with relatively small funds. I think that many people would be willing to take significant pay cut to work on project chosen by them.
- winter_blue 3y ago
  > And I would be able to spend more time on that and willing even with relatively small funds. > I think that many people would be willing to take significant pay cut to work on project chosen by them. I definitely agree with this sentiment; I can relate to it strongly.
tredre3 3y ago
Wow that whole comment suggests you're SF/SV-based. 180k is top pay for a dev in most of America. 50-60k is entry-level pay for a dev in most of America. 350k is really uncommon outside of your bubble. Are you really suggesting Indians make as much and even more? Then why are companies offshoring to them when they could just hire local juniors for the same price?
- winter_blue 3y ago
  You can find "engineers" in India who'll accept $6k / year. But, with a few exceptions, most of these $6k/year engineers are really quite terrible at what they do, and their English communication skills are...to put it lightly... not good. I've dealt with a contractor who hired such engineers. I remember the team, which I think had around 10 people (but I don't recall the exact size). There was 1 guy, who was basically a 10X engineer, and pulled the weight of most of his team/division. He wrote/delivered most of the working code, while there were around 9 others on his team who contributed very little (mostly terribly buggy code which he had to fix). Yea, they were paying each person on the team $6k (the manager–who was pretty much useless -- was probably earning like $12k), and they were spending around $60k to $70k in total on this 10-person team. But–they could have pretty much just fired the entire team except for the one guy who was producing most of the code, and gotten the same (or better results). He would've been happier, and he wouldn't been dragged down by all those other nearly-non-contributing folks. (For what it was worth, I talked to this guy (who was from Rajasthan), and suggested that he find a better job that paid better and valued his skills better. And I even offered to recommend him, and help him find a job abroad with a company that'd sponsor a visa for him; but he turned down my offer–he was actually, quite bizarrely, worried about some form of retaliation, if he left that contractor/team. It was strange indeed...) Of course, if you want to find a software engineer in India who can actually deliver results (and communicate well in English), you should be willing to pay them at least $60k USD (INR 50 lakh) / year. Any less, and you'll basically "get what you pay for" unless you luck out and land some talented engineer who doesn't know his skills' worth. Fwiw, $60k USD is still a quite cheaper than the US (a 50% discount), since I'd say in the US, the bare minimum for a software engineer today stands at around $120k USD.

Uehreka 3y ago

Uhhh, $180k is an awesome developer salary in the US (as long as you’re not talking about silicon valley salaries, which most Americans aren’t). There are also definitely juniors in the US making $60k (and probably even less).

winter_blue 3y ago
> as long as you’re not talking about silicon valley salaries, which most Americans aren’t Since WFH became more common, high salaries have spread across the US. Several members of my team are earning $250k to $400k (depending on their level), and are scattered across the US, and many are living super-LCOL cities. For example, one guy (who makes over $350k) lives in Utah, and around the start of COVID he bought a large house with a lot land surrounding it, for (to him) a measly $270k. > There are also definitely juniors in the US making $60k (and probably even less). Nobody should be making that little in the US. $120k is the minimum for a software engineer in the US, regardless of location. If a SWE is earning less than six figures in the US, they're certainly being swindled.

matkoniecz 3y ago

Many open source projects have people working for free and spending a lot of time on that. Even really low wages may enable more people to do this. I spend a lot of time on developing StreetComplete, got paid only for small part of that. And I would be able to spend more time on that and willing even with relatively small funds. I think that many people would be willing to take significant pay cut to work on project chosen by them.

winter_blue 3y ago
> And I would be able to spend more time on that and willing even with relatively small funds. > I think that many people would be willing to take significant pay cut to work on project chosen by them. I definitely agree with this sentiment; I can relate to it strongly.

tredre3 3y ago

Wow that whole comment suggests you're SF/SV-based. 180k is top pay for a dev in most of America. 50-60k is entry-level pay for a dev in most of America. 350k is really uncommon outside of your bubble. Are you really suggesting Indians make as much and even more? Then why are companies offshoring to them when they could just hire local juniors for the same price?

winter_blue 3y ago
You can find "engineers" in India who'll accept $6k / year. But, with a few exceptions, most of these $6k/year engineers are really quite terrible at what they do, and their English communication skills are...to put it lightly... not good. I've dealt with a contractor who hired such engineers. I remember the team, which I think had around 10 people (but I don't recall the exact size). There was 1 guy, who was basically a 10X engineer, and pulled the weight of most of his team/division. He wrote/delivered most of the working code, while there were around 9 others on his team who contributed very little (mostly terribly buggy code which he had to fix). Yea, they were paying each person on the team $6k (the manager–who was pretty much useless -- was probably earning like $12k), and they were spending around $60k to $70k in total on this 10-person team. But–they could have pretty much just fired the entire team except for the one guy who was producing most of the code, and gotten the same (or better results). He would've been happier, and he wouldn't been dragged down by all those other nearly-non-contributing folks. (For what it was worth, I talked to this guy (who was from Rajasthan), and suggested that he find a better job that paid better and valued his skills better. And I even offered to recommend him, and help him find a job abroad with a company that'd sponsor a visa for him; but he turned down my offer–he was actually, quite bizarrely, worried about some form of retaliation, if he left that contractor/team. It was strange indeed...) Of course, if you want to find a software engineer in India who can actually deliver results (and communicate well in English), you should be willing to pay them at least $60k USD (INR 50 lakh) / year. Any less, and you'll basically "get what you pay for" unless you luck out and land some talented engineer who doesn't know his skills' worth. Fwiw, $60k USD is still a quite cheaper than the US (a 50% discount), since I'd say in the US, the bare minimum for a software engineer today stands at around $120k USD.