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I can’t quite make out from the paper but did they just kill eight cats and remove their larynx for this experiment? Was it really worth doing that to determin

I can’t quite make out from the paper but did they just kill eight cats and remove their larynx for this experiment? Was it really worth doing that to determine this? I don’t think learning this was worth even eight cats dying and being mutilated if so. I’m from academia and science and I keep getting more disillusioned with the whole thing the longer I’m in it.

j7ake 3y ago
The larynges were taken from euthanised cats that had terminal diseases.
b112 3y ago
Would you presume murder, if a scientist worked on a human cavadier?
- JCharante 3y ago
  It depends on the maturity of the field. In the 1800s? Absolutely. Animal rights are behind that of humans in the 1800s (yes I know human slavery was common at that time, and that’s my point, humans were treated as property and not as people with rights, which is how our legal frameworks view non-human animals now)
  - behringer 3y ago
    No reasonable scientist would have been murdering people in the 1800s...
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      I doubt there were many "reasonable scientists" in the 1800s.
    - magicalhippo 3y ago
      Sure, you get someone else to do that[1]. Don't ask, don't tell of course. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders
    - rsynnott 3y ago
      I have… bad news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders Rule of thumb, when dealing with the 19th century: assume pretty much any level of cruelty, depravity, or plain stupidity was up for grabs (you have all three here, the stupidity being around the laws which made this industry inevitable). It wasn’t a very nice time, in general.
    - lynx23 3y ago
      That is a pretty naiv assumption.
      - behringer 3y ago
        Congrats you found one example. I could probably list a dozen from recent times too.
orra 3y ago
Why would you assume that? A, nobody wants to murder eight cats. B, it'd probably be illegal. > The larynges were harvested from animals that had to be euthanised due to terminal disease unrelated to the respiratory tract in veterinary clinics in Vienna, Austria. The animals’ owners gave their explicit consent for the larynges to be investigated postmortem.
- astrange 3y ago
  And then they mounted them on Legos. > After removing excess tissue and all but four tracheal rings, each larynx was mounted on a vertical tube that could supply heated (∼37°C) and humidified (100% humidity) air. Larynx stability was maintained with an adjustable plastic support structure (using LEGO blocks, Billund, Denmark) and 3D-printed plastic mounts.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    they probably needed something reliable
  - mojo74 3y ago
    Pride of place on the mantlepiece along with a Death Star and Saturn 5 lego set. Head to https://ideas.lego.com/ https://ideas.lego.com/ to realise the dream...
- defrost 3y ago
  > A, nobody wants to murder eight cats. Many people embrace the idea of murdering more than just eight cats and actively develop better methods to do so: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-device-felixer-tested-at-animal-reserve/12296874 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-... https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/felixer,-the-grooming-trap,-works-to-control-feral-cats https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/felixer,-the-grooming-trap,-... A feral cat management device that uses lasers and sensors to specifically target cats has been shown to be effective in a field trial in remote South Australia.
  - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
PetitPrince 3y ago
They were already dead cats. From the material and method section: > The larynges were harvested from animals that had to be euthanised due to terminal disease unrelated to the respiratory tract in veterinary clinics in Vienna, Austria.
- OnlyMortal 3y ago
  Schrodinger has entered the chat
__alexs 3y ago
They didn't kill any cats but also as a long term and very loving cohabiter with multiple cats, they are just cats. Animal cruelty is a serious problem because it makes some people miserable to see them suffer and the ones it doesn't make miserable are possibly dangerously psychotic. This isn't that.
acosmism 3y ago
i’m genuinely curious about how you feel about killing insects in the name of academia and science. the same?

j7ake 3y ago

The larynges were taken from euthanised cats that had terminal diseases.

b112 3y ago

Would you presume murder, if a scientist worked on a human cavadier?

JCharante 3y ago
It depends on the maturity of the field. In the 1800s? Absolutely. Animal rights are behind that of humans in the 1800s (yes I know human slavery was common at that time, and that’s my point, humans were treated as property and not as people with rights, which is how our legal frameworks view non-human animals now)
- behringer 3y ago
  No reasonable scientist would have been murdering people in the 1800s...
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    I doubt there were many "reasonable scientists" in the 1800s.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    Sure, you get someone else to do that[1]. Don't ask, don't tell of course. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    I have… bad news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders Rule of thumb, when dealing with the 19th century: assume pretty much any level of cruelty, depravity, or plain stupidity was up for grabs (you have all three here, the stupidity being around the laws which made this industry inevitable). It wasn’t a very nice time, in general.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    That is a pretty naiv assumption.
    - behringer 3y ago
      Congrats you found one example. I could probably list a dozen from recent times too.

orra 3y ago

Why would you assume that? A, nobody wants to murder eight cats. B, it'd probably be illegal. > The larynges were harvested from animals that had to be euthanised due to terminal disease unrelated to the respiratory tract in veterinary clinics in Vienna, Austria. The animals’ owners gave their explicit consent for the larynges to be investigated postmortem.

astrange 3y ago
And then they mounted them on Legos. > After removing excess tissue and all but four tracheal rings, each larynx was mounted on a vertical tube that could supply heated (∼37°C) and humidified (100% humidity) air. Larynx stability was maintained with an adjustable plastic support structure (using LEGO blocks, Billund, Denmark) and 3D-printed plastic mounts.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  they probably needed something reliable
- mojo74 3y ago
  Pride of place on the mantlepiece along with a Death Star and Saturn 5 lego set. Head to https://ideas.lego.com/ https://ideas.lego.com/ to realise the dream...
defrost 3y ago
> A, nobody wants to murder eight cats. Many people embrace the idea of murdering more than just eight cats and actively develop better methods to do so: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-device-felixer-tested-at-animal-reserve/12296874 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-... https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/felixer,-the-grooming-trap,-works-to-control-feral-cats https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/felixer,-the-grooming-trap,-... A feral cat management device that uses lasers and sensors to specifically target cats has been shown to be effective in a field trial in remote South Australia.
- 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

PetitPrince 3y ago

They were already dead cats. From the material and method section: > The larynges were harvested from animals that had to be euthanised due to terminal disease unrelated to the respiratory tract in veterinary clinics in Vienna, Austria.

OnlyMortal 3y ago
Schrodinger has entered the chat

__alexs 3y ago

They didn't kill any cats but also as a long term and very loving cohabiter with multiple cats, they are just cats. Animal cruelty is a serious problem because it makes some people miserable to see them suffer and the ones it doesn't make miserable are possibly dangerously psychotic. This isn't that.

acosmism 3y ago

i’m genuinely curious about how you feel about killing insects in the name of academia and science. the same?