7 ms·

“Free markets are efficient”

by TaylorAlexander 3y ago

jacknews 3y ago
Right, the fake parts suppliers will get weeded out of the market by natural competition after a few parts fail...
- lostlogin 3y ago
  I wonder what Amazon would say about this, if an unfiltered comment were possible.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    XEUWU jackscrew assembly horizontal stabilizer trim system OVERALL PICK (highly rated, well-priced and available to ship immediately), 14% off.
    - pjerem 3y ago
      With a picture of a flying plane side by side with a crashed plane : "ours / theirs".
    - oblio 3y ago
      4.2 stars out of 5 (20 reviews), a few 5 star reviews mentioning how cool the box looked and how easy it was to open and a 1 star review at the bottom with a detailed explanation how the part is made of shoddy material and after being installed everyone died.
      - plagiarist 3y ago
        The five star reviews are all about the comfort level of a pair of socks from before the listing was changed into an industrial part.
  - conjectures 3y ago
    Amazon own brand jet engine, 4.5 stars, prime available.
    - zapdrive 3y ago
      Amazon basics landing gear.
- aerique 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - RoyalHenOil 3y ago
    I think they're pointing out that hundreds of people would probably have to die to before the free market fixed it, whereas timely regulation would save all those lives.
    - FeepingCreature 3y ago
      To be fair, hundreds of people have died for the current regulations.
  - achenet 3y ago
    I think they were being ironic ;)
- charcircuit 3y ago
  The parts aren't fake nor will they just fail. They are likely the same exact part, just without markup for having some documentation attached to them. All of the paper work and liability reduces competition and results in much higher prices for literally the same exact part.
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    > They are likely the same exact part, just without markup for having some documentation attached to them. Why would they be the same parts? Why would their manufacturer go through extensive testing if they have no incentives in doing so? Somehow people here seem to believe that “documentation” is expensive, but most of the expense doesn't come from the paperwork itself but from the things that you are required to do by these pieces of paper. And if you want to save costs, you're gonna save costs on the manufacturing process, not just on the paperwork.
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      >Why would they be the same parts? If you are buying a replacement part you would want to buy one with the same specs as the part you are replacing. >Why would their manufacturer go through extensive testing if they have no incentives in doing so? Manufacturers will test their parts so that buyers can see if the part is usable for their needs.
      - littlestymaar 3y ago
        > If you are buying a replacement part you would want to buy one with the same specs as the part you are replacing. But without the paper, you cannot know for sure if the spec is the same (you can't see the difference between aviation grade screws and regular screws with naked eyes for instance). > Manufacturers will test their parts so that buyers can see if the part is usable for their needs. Manufacturers want to sell their parts, they don't want buyers to “see if the part is usable for their needs” (if the buyer doesn't buy, that's a missed sale). I mean have you never buy anything? Sellers want you to believe their product is good so you buy it and they make money, that's how it works. And customers being disappointed by false marketing promises is routine stuff, including in the B2B sector.
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  So like obviously the original comment was facetious. But just to make it clear… “weeded out of market after the parts fail” involves a billion dollar aircraft with hundreds of humans on it. And just to be more clear, delta is the fourth airline to report these parts. So when does natural competition start? Because the goal is of course to prevent anyone from getting hurt due to problems that may occur on ~100 jets.
  - zo1 3y ago
    It happens after the first time most likely, but before this one. It's kind of disingenuous to dismiss a free-market solution because it is on some level reactive. For all we know, in the absence of government, when planes were invented and accidents started happening, people got together and started doing this on their own. Sure we could argue "something something greedy profits", but even then, we have to assume action on the part of consumers, companies, intermediaries, etc. It's a valid business model to provide a "certification" service, and there are many examples out there of just such a thing if you squint. Further, we really can't discount the "laziness" and "apathy" that is caused by over-reliance on government and what it purports to do.
    - vineyardmike 3y ago
      I think we can critique the system for being reactive. It’s totally fair. Furthermore, the presence of fraudulent parts is already a problem, and we have regulations, so I think the assumption that we might see entirely honest market participants in more laissez faire market is probably debunked. Waiting for enough plane crashes that customers demand certification through a free market process might work but will certainly result in more deaths. More deaths is basically the thing society decided governments should stop.
    - selfmodruntime 3y ago
      Sorry, but the very real alternative to regulation is the loss of people's life. > For all we know, in the absence of government, when planes were invented and accidents started happening, people got together and started doing this on their own. Thousands of people had to die until we arrived at the regulation we have today. As the saying goes, every rule is written in blood.
addicted 3y ago
“Free” markets are extremely efficient at what they’re intended to do. Which is finding a fair price for a goods/service. But there are MANY nuances: 1. Are you making sure everything you value is being priced in? For example, a free market will find you a very efficient price for an assassin to get rid of your spouse. But without external regulation it won’t factor in whether or not getting rid of your spouse is actually a good thing for society or not. 2. Is all the information available to all participants? This is extremely difficult to achieve and in a sense the entire financial system is a hundreds of billions of dollar industry whose goal is to improve information transparency marginally. 3. The word “free” doesn’t mean what a lot of the people who go on and on about “free” markets think it means. It means markets where information is freely available and buyers and sellers can participate freely. The “free market” propagandists, on the other hand, insist free means free from government regulation, when in fact to achieve a real free market where buyers and sellers can bid freely and information is easily available to all, regulation is a prerequisite. And in a democracy the regulation is likely to be government regulation.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
efficient at boosting stock price, in the Friedman sense. if it's not going to improve the stock price the who cares? source: worked for a lot of very large, healthy F500 companies that were clusterfucks most of the time

“Free markets are efficient”

jacknews 3y ago

Right, the fake parts suppliers will get weeded out of the market by natural competition after a few parts fail...

lostlogin 3y ago
I wonder what Amazon would say about this, if an unfiltered comment were possible.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  XEUWU jackscrew assembly horizontal stabilizer trim system OVERALL PICK (highly rated, well-priced and available to ship immediately), 14% off.
  - pjerem 3y ago
    With a picture of a flying plane side by side with a crashed plane : "ours / theirs".
  - oblio 3y ago
    4.2 stars out of 5 (20 reviews), a few 5 star reviews mentioning how cool the box looked and how easy it was to open and a 1 star review at the bottom with a detailed explanation how the part is made of shoddy material and after being installed everyone died.
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      The five star reviews are all about the comfort level of a pair of socks from before the listing was changed into an industrial part.
- conjectures 3y ago
  Amazon own brand jet engine, 4.5 stars, prime available.
  - zapdrive 3y ago
    Amazon basics landing gear.
aerique 3y ago
[flagged]
- RoyalHenOil 3y ago
  I think they're pointing out that hundreds of people would probably have to die to before the free market fixed it, whereas timely regulation would save all those lives.
  - FeepingCreature 3y ago
    To be fair, hundreds of people have died for the current regulations.
- achenet 3y ago
  I think they were being ironic ;)
charcircuit 3y ago
The parts aren't fake nor will they just fail. They are likely the same exact part, just without markup for having some documentation attached to them. All of the paper work and liability reduces competition and results in much higher prices for literally the same exact part.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  > They are likely the same exact part, just without markup for having some documentation attached to them. Why would they be the same parts? Why would their manufacturer go through extensive testing if they have no incentives in doing so? Somehow people here seem to believe that “documentation” is expensive, but most of the expense doesn't come from the paperwork itself but from the things that you are required to do by these pieces of paper. And if you want to save costs, you're gonna save costs on the manufacturing process, not just on the paperwork.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    >Why would they be the same parts? If you are buying a replacement part you would want to buy one with the same specs as the part you are replacing. >Why would their manufacturer go through extensive testing if they have no incentives in doing so? Manufacturers will test their parts so that buyers can see if the part is usable for their needs.
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      > If you are buying a replacement part you would want to buy one with the same specs as the part you are replacing. But without the paper, you cannot know for sure if the spec is the same (you can't see the difference between aviation grade screws and regular screws with naked eyes for instance). > Manufacturers will test their parts so that buyers can see if the part is usable for their needs. Manufacturers want to sell their parts, they don't want buyers to “see if the part is usable for their needs” (if the buyer doesn't buy, that's a missed sale). I mean have you never buy anything? Sellers want you to believe their product is good so you buy it and they make money, that's how it works. And customers being disappointed by false marketing promises is routine stuff, including in the B2B sector.
vineyardmike 3y ago
So like obviously the original comment was facetious. But just to make it clear… “weeded out of market after the parts fail” involves a billion dollar aircraft with hundreds of humans on it. And just to be more clear, delta is the fourth airline to report these parts. So when does natural competition start? Because the goal is of course to prevent anyone from getting hurt due to problems that may occur on ~100 jets.
- zo1 3y ago
  It happens after the first time most likely, but before this one. It's kind of disingenuous to dismiss a free-market solution because it is on some level reactive. For all we know, in the absence of government, when planes were invented and accidents started happening, people got together and started doing this on their own. Sure we could argue "something something greedy profits", but even then, we have to assume action on the part of consumers, companies, intermediaries, etc. It's a valid business model to provide a "certification" service, and there are many examples out there of just such a thing if you squint. Further, we really can't discount the "laziness" and "apathy" that is caused by over-reliance on government and what it purports to do.
  - vineyardmike 3y ago
    I think we can critique the system for being reactive. It’s totally fair. Furthermore, the presence of fraudulent parts is already a problem, and we have regulations, so I think the assumption that we might see entirely honest market participants in more laissez faire market is probably debunked. Waiting for enough plane crashes that customers demand certification through a free market process might work but will certainly result in more deaths. More deaths is basically the thing society decided governments should stop.
  - selfmodruntime 3y ago
    Sorry, but the very real alternative to regulation is the loss of people's life. > For all we know, in the absence of government, when planes were invented and accidents started happening, people got together and started doing this on their own. Thousands of people had to die until we arrived at the regulation we have today. As the saying goes, every rule is written in blood.

addicted 3y ago

“Free” markets are extremely efficient at what they’re intended to do. Which is finding a fair price for a goods/service. But there are MANY nuances: 1. Are you making sure everything you value is being priced in? For example, a free market will find you a very efficient price for an assassin to get rid of your spouse. But without external regulation it won’t factor in whether or not getting rid of your spouse is actually a good thing for society or not. 2. Is all the information available to all participants? This is extremely difficult to achieve and in a sense the entire financial system is a hundreds of billions of dollar industry whose goal is to improve information transparency marginally. 3. The word “free” doesn’t mean what a lot of the people who go on and on about “free” markets think it means. It means markets where information is freely available and buyers and sellers can participate freely. The “free market” propagandists, on the other hand, insist free means free from government regulation, when in fact to achieve a real free market where buyers and sellers can bid freely and information is easily available to all, regulation is a prerequisite. And in a democracy the regulation is likely to be government regulation.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

efficient at boosting stock price, in the Friedman sense. if it's not going to improve the stock price the who cares? source: worked for a lot of very large, healthy F500 companies that were clusterfucks most of the time