5 ms·

Genuinely curious, I don’t see how this isn’t fair use? Probably one of the reason Facebook doesn’t “charge” for this.

theshrike79 3y ago
Try making a Mickey Mouse animation and release it for free. Then shout "FAIR USE, FAIR USE!" when the Mouse's lawyers burn your house down and take everything that's left =) It doesn't matter whether the result is sold or not, copyright law doesn't care.
- syntaxing 3y ago
  For peasants like us, it of course is out of the question. But for a 800B company (Meta) vs a 150B company (Disney), the conversation is very different.
- dvngnt_ 3y ago
  not a lawyer, but what can they take if you don't gain? maybe they could cite brand harm which might have monetary implications.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    If you're using someone else's copyright, you're effectively stealing from them. It literally doesn't matter if you don't make money off it. A quick search provided this link: https://www.kent.edu/it/civil-and-criminal-penalties-violation-federal-copyright-laws https://www.kent.edu/it/civil-and-criminal-penalties-violati... Penalties for copyright infringement include civil and criminal penalties. In general, anyone found liable for civil copyright infringement may be ordered to pay either actual damages or "statutory" damages affixed at not less than $750 and not more than $30,000 per work infringed. For "willful" infringement, a court may award up to $150,000 per work infringed. A court can, in its discretion, also assess costs and attorneys' fees. For details, see Title 17, United States Code, Sections 504, 505. Willful copyright infringement can also result in criminal penalties, including imprisonment of up to five years and fines of up to $250,000 per offense. Let's say you make a free animation with Mickey, Minnie and Goofy. If (when) The Mouse's lawyers are really good, they'll claim that's 3 works that have been wilfully infringed on. That's 150k * 3.
    - throwaway50634 3y ago
      Using a generated image that looks like some character is not in any way infringing on copyright. Copyright applies when you reuse the exact artwork someone else created.
      - meepmorp 3y ago
        > Copyright applies when you reuse the exact artwork someone else created. For your own sake, talk to an IP lawyer before you rely on this belief.
        throwaway50634 3y ago
        Have you talked to an IP lawyer?
      - theshrike79 3y ago
        So you're claiming that if I draw a Mickey Mouse myself, I can do whatever I want with it. Disney's copyright doesn't apply? You really need to look up what copyright is. It has the word "copy" in the name, but it doesn't mean what you think it means.
        throwaway50634 3y ago
        Yes, exactly. It's your own image. You might've based it on a trademark or another copyrighted work and that changes what you can do with your image and in what cases, but you own the copyright for the image you created.
  - freejazz 3y ago
    They can stop you from infringing.
dagmx 3y ago
It’s not a paid for feature, but it’s a project that is part of their monetization (ads, data etc) and continued engagement. Put another way, it’s a value add for something that makes them money and not educational in nature either. Otherwise one could use any IP for advertising their non-paid for products. Which for Meta is everything.
JohnFen 3y ago
Not making an assessment of this case, but not all use is fair use. Whether or not money is being charged for it generally isn't relevant to that determination.
crazygringo 3y ago
If you look at the standard tests for fair use, how do you think this is fair use? It's not in the context of education or criticism or even parody or anything else. You can't sell a product and include Mickey Mouse stickers with it. This is basically that. (Even if users aren't purchasing, it's selling ads.)

Try making a Mickey Mouse animation and release it for free. Then shout "FAIR USE, FAIR USE!" when the Mouse's lawyers burn your house down and take everything that's left =) It doesn't matter whether the result is sold or not, copyright law doesn't care.

syntaxing 3y ago
For peasants like us, it of course is out of the question. But for a 800B company (Meta) vs a 150B company (Disney), the conversation is very different.
dvngnt_ 3y ago
not a lawyer, but what can they take if you don't gain? maybe they could cite brand harm which might have monetary implications.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  If you're using someone else's copyright, you're effectively stealing from them. It literally doesn't matter if you don't make money off it. A quick search provided this link: https://www.kent.edu/it/civil-and-criminal-penalties-violation-federal-copyright-laws https://www.kent.edu/it/civil-and-criminal-penalties-violati... Penalties for copyright infringement include civil and criminal penalties. In general, anyone found liable for civil copyright infringement may be ordered to pay either actual damages or "statutory" damages affixed at not less than $750 and not more than $30,000 per work infringed. For "willful" infringement, a court may award up to $150,000 per work infringed. A court can, in its discretion, also assess costs and attorneys' fees. For details, see Title 17, United States Code, Sections 504, 505. Willful copyright infringement can also result in criminal penalties, including imprisonment of up to five years and fines of up to $250,000 per offense. Let's say you make a free animation with Mickey, Minnie and Goofy. If (when) The Mouse's lawyers are really good, they'll claim that's 3 works that have been wilfully infringed on. That's 150k * 3.
  - throwaway50634 3y ago
    Using a generated image that looks like some character is not in any way infringing on copyright. Copyright applies when you reuse the exact artwork someone else created.
    - meepmorp 3y ago
      > Copyright applies when you reuse the exact artwork someone else created. For your own sake, talk to an IP lawyer before you rely on this belief.
      - throwaway50634 3y ago
        Have you talked to an IP lawyer?
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      So you're claiming that if I draw a Mickey Mouse myself, I can do whatever I want with it. Disney's copyright doesn't apply? You really need to look up what copyright is. It has the word "copy" in the name, but it doesn't mean what you think it means.
      - throwaway50634 3y ago
        Yes, exactly. It's your own image. You might've based it on a trademark or another copyrighted work and that changes what you can do with your image and in what cases, but you own the copyright for the image you created.
- freejazz 3y ago
  They can stop you from infringing.

dagmx 3y ago

It’s not a paid for feature, but it’s a project that is part of their monetization (ads, data etc) and continued engagement. Put another way, it’s a value add for something that makes them money and not educational in nature either. Otherwise one could use any IP for advertising their non-paid for products. Which for Meta is everything.

JohnFen 3y ago

Not making an assessment of this case, but not all use is fair use. Whether or not money is being charged for it generally isn't relevant to that determination.

crazygringo 3y ago

If you look at the standard tests for fair use, how do you think this is fair use? It's not in the context of education or criticism or even parody or anything else. You can't sell a product and include Mickey Mouse stickers with it. This is basically that. (Even if users aren't purchasing, it's selling ads.)