9 ms·

I am sorry to play the role of devil's advocate. The hiring industry put up with ridiculous requirements on the engineers. There is such a disconnect between t

I am sorry to play the role of devil's advocate. The hiring industry put up with ridiculous requirements on the engineers. There is such a disconnect between the requirements on job post and actual job. As a result, all entry level people are forced to apply to 300-400 jobs at least. And you are all looking for programmers. If one thing I know is most of them are having a heck of fun creating their automated system. I know it's annoying to you but it is equally annoying to us. I hope the upper management learns something out of this. Compile a presentation and show it to upper management. If they don't do something, expect more weird stuffs down the line. I think your upper management will force your senior engineers to come with a filter and we will come with ways to bypass the filter. The race to the bottom is on.

dleeftink 3y ago
I was about to say: the automation of HR and candidate screening has given rise to 'hidden workers' that may be ideal for certain positions but are missed due to candidate pre-screening [0]. [0]: https://www.hbs.edu/managing-the-future-of-work/Documents/research/hiddenworkers09032021.pdf https://www.hbs.edu/managing-the-future-of-work/Documents/re...
lovehashbrowns 3y ago
I agree with this. Just getting to talk to a human is a massive effort in the hiring process. Before that it’s create an account on workday, have it automatically fill in the form with a pdf resume but it doesn’t change anything because I still have to go through it and make sure everything is correct, decide if I want to put effort into writing a cover letter, fill in all the manual questionnaires like “why do you want to work for us?” that I’m comfortable with, wait 2+ weeks for the automated rejection email, repeat! This is also precious coming from an industry that uses automated emails for rejection. Yeah you don’t want to write 80 personalized rejection emails (probably way more) aaaand we don’t want to write 80 (or more) cover letters. I feel that’s pretty fair. Also isn’t this the industry that uses keywords to automatically detect “good” resumes and skips the resumes that don’t have those keywords?
- asalahli 3y ago
  How does that have anything to do with the OP and their company? A bad behavior in the industry doesn't justify taking the revenge on one small company. If anything, it creates a negative feedback loop. > Please don't do this. I spend time going through the resume, the various links in it, and then responding to everyone who applied. But this time, with so much AI-generated verbiage I simply don't want to. Congratulations, now there's one more company "that uses automated emails for rejection". And rightly so, if you ask me. Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with OP or their employer.
  - lovehashbrowns 3y ago
    Because if someone’s experience is that their cover letter never gets read, and they finally get the chance to automate writing a cover letter, they’re just going to follow the pattern they’ve always experienced. I also love that the way things have worked for decades is applicants have to do everything by hand, but employers can automate as much as they want. Now suddenly applicants can automate just the writing of the cover letter and suddenly automation is bad and it’s all about being personal and what happened to the human touch lmao. This is just over a cover letter, by the way. Also this is likely not applicants that are filling out one job application. We’re talking applicants that have probably spent weeks trying to apply for jobs. Spare then the 5 minutes of writing a cover letter for a job they’re probably not going to get for the 50th or whatever time.
    - ntp_user 3y ago
      yep, you hit it on. I was going to reply the same thing to OP. when companies use AI to determine which resumes/candidates are good, no one can complain, but when candidates use AI to generate cover letters and all that garbage (for the 300 companies they have to apply to) they are literally hitler
    - jakabia 3y ago
      This, exactly this! I've been looking for a job for a while now, and of course I automated it... genuinely asking, who reads the 100s of cover letters anyway?
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
Not just engineers. My wife recently went through this. Application after application, each expecting a cover letter, as to why my wife is the ideal candidate, and how she would be a great fit in the company. It's an absolute waste of time. Then when you get through the first filter, you need to do x aptitude tests and a degrading personality test. And only THEN, when you understand how those tests work and get to get a perfect score, then you might get an email to set up a phone call.
- Fnoord 3y ago
  I'll get laid off end of year. Now I will soon have to do one (serious) job application a week in order to receive benefits for the time being. If I could use ML to make that part easier (I will get declined a lot without even having been read anyway, not even a non-personal rejection letter) while I put effort into it then all the more power to me. Actually, I'd like to thank the OP for the heads up.
- yoyopa 3y ago
  how does the personality test work? what do they want?
naikrovek 3y ago
> If one thing I know is most of them are having a heck of fun creating their automated system. ... did AI write this?
- nullptr_deref 3y ago
  Hahaha. This has happened to me once before. I do not use sophisticated language and they thought I sounded like AI because of minor exaggeration on venting opinions. I think that is why your anti-ai flag got triggered.
  - jwestbury 3y ago
    Not a case of unsophisticated language here -- rather, it's a case of an awkward and non-standard sentence construction, which, to be honest, I just parse as someone who doesn't speak English as their first language; ChatGPT wouldn't make this mistake.
    - naikrovek 3y ago
      I think the assumption that all bad grammar is the result of speaking a non-native speaker is a bad one. I work with a lot of native English speakers and they get all kinds of grammar school grammar wrong.
mongol 3y ago
That's true. But I always thought that HN's "Who is hiring" was more informal, a kind of back door so to say.
- jventura 3y ago
  It's not anymore, it's just another job board as many others out there..
joeblogs 3y ago
Um. No you're not. I refuse to participate in a process where I send out 300 bullshit apps. Instead, network. Reach out to your college profs and family friends. Go to meetups and tech events. Do hackathons. Anything to get time with a real human to build a connection. Seriously, its how things get done.

dleeftink 3y ago

I was about to say: the automation of HR and candidate screening has given rise to 'hidden workers' that may be ideal for certain positions but are missed due to candidate pre-screening [0]. [0]: https://www.hbs.edu/managing-the-future-of-work/Documents/research/hiddenworkers09032021.pdf https://www.hbs.edu/managing-the-future-of-work/Documents/re...

lovehashbrowns 3y ago

I agree with this. Just getting to talk to a human is a massive effort in the hiring process. Before that it’s create an account on workday, have it automatically fill in the form with a pdf resume but it doesn’t change anything because I still have to go through it and make sure everything is correct, decide if I want to put effort into writing a cover letter, fill in all the manual questionnaires like “why do you want to work for us?” that I’m comfortable with, wait 2+ weeks for the automated rejection email, repeat! This is also precious coming from an industry that uses automated emails for rejection. Yeah you don’t want to write 80 personalized rejection emails (probably way more) aaaand we don’t want to write 80 (or more) cover letters. I feel that’s pretty fair. Also isn’t this the industry that uses keywords to automatically detect “good” resumes and skips the resumes that don’t have those keywords?

asalahli 3y ago
How does that have anything to do with the OP and their company? A bad behavior in the industry doesn't justify taking the revenge on one small company. If anything, it creates a negative feedback loop. > Please don't do this. I spend time going through the resume, the various links in it, and then responding to everyone who applied. But this time, with so much AI-generated verbiage I simply don't want to. Congratulations, now there's one more company "that uses automated emails for rejection". And rightly so, if you ask me. Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with OP or their employer.
- lovehashbrowns 3y ago
  Because if someone’s experience is that their cover letter never gets read, and they finally get the chance to automate writing a cover letter, they’re just going to follow the pattern they’ve always experienced. I also love that the way things have worked for decades is applicants have to do everything by hand, but employers can automate as much as they want. Now suddenly applicants can automate just the writing of the cover letter and suddenly automation is bad and it’s all about being personal and what happened to the human touch lmao. This is just over a cover letter, by the way. Also this is likely not applicants that are filling out one job application. We’re talking applicants that have probably spent weeks trying to apply for jobs. Spare then the 5 minutes of writing a cover letter for a job they’re probably not going to get for the 50th or whatever time.
  - ntp_user 3y ago
    yep, you hit it on. I was going to reply the same thing to OP. when companies use AI to determine which resumes/candidates are good, no one can complain, but when candidates use AI to generate cover letters and all that garbage (for the 300 companies they have to apply to) they are literally hitler
  - jakabia 3y ago
    This, exactly this! I've been looking for a job for a while now, and of course I automated it... genuinely asking, who reads the 100s of cover letters anyway?

WirelessGigabit 3y ago

Not just engineers. My wife recently went through this. Application after application, each expecting a cover letter, as to why my wife is the ideal candidate, and how she would be a great fit in the company. It's an absolute waste of time. Then when you get through the first filter, you need to do x aptitude tests and a degrading personality test. And only THEN, when you understand how those tests work and get to get a perfect score, then you might get an email to set up a phone call.

Fnoord 3y ago
I'll get laid off end of year. Now I will soon have to do one (serious) job application a week in order to receive benefits for the time being. If I could use ML to make that part easier (I will get declined a lot without even having been read anyway, not even a non-personal rejection letter) while I put effort into it then all the more power to me. Actually, I'd like to thank the OP for the heads up.
yoyopa 3y ago
how does the personality test work? what do they want?

naikrovek 3y ago

> If one thing I know is most of them are having a heck of fun creating their automated system. ... did AI write this?

nullptr_deref 3y ago
Hahaha. This has happened to me once before. I do not use sophisticated language and they thought I sounded like AI because of minor exaggeration on venting opinions. I think that is why your anti-ai flag got triggered.
- jwestbury 3y ago
  Not a case of unsophisticated language here -- rather, it's a case of an awkward and non-standard sentence construction, which, to be honest, I just parse as someone who doesn't speak English as their first language; ChatGPT wouldn't make this mistake.
  - naikrovek 3y ago
    I think the assumption that all bad grammar is the result of speaking a non-native speaker is a bad one. I work with a lot of native English speakers and they get all kinds of grammar school grammar wrong.

mongol 3y ago

That's true. But I always thought that HN's "Who is hiring" was more informal, a kind of back door so to say.

jventura 3y ago
It's not anymore, it's just another job board as many others out there..

joeblogs 3y ago

Um. No you're not. I refuse to participate in a process where I send out 300 bullshit apps. Instead, network. Reach out to your college profs and family friends. Go to meetups and tech events. Do hackathons. Anything to get time with a real human to build a connection. Seriously, its how things get done.