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Daisugi, the Japanese technique of growing trees out of other trees (2020)
- johng 3y agoWhat an interesting subject.
- artursapek 3y agoI feel like one could study Japanese culture for a lifetime and never get bored
- smt88 3y agoWhat culture is this not true of? Perhaps Japanese culture is more fascinating to you because it's so different from yours.
- lizardking 3y agoSome cultures are more interesting to me than others. This seems to be the rule for most people rather than an exception. Are all cultures equally interesting to you?
- culi 3y agoIt's more fascinating because it's more well-preserved. There was a conscious effort to do so
- justrealist 3y agoI'm not a Japanophile but I think it's hard to deny there's a crispness to their cultural institutions that other cultures don't care as much about preserving at high fidelity. Like, when they have traditional festivals, there's a pretty real effort at doing them right? It's not that the culture itself is "better" but they don't generally half-ass their public traditions and that makes it more fun to observe. Like I don't want to be mean, but for example American Indian culture in a historical context is fascinating, but it's really hard to find groups that put effort into preserving cultural institutions at more than a "phone it in" level. And that makes it a lot less fun to go out of your way to see/learn.
- Tadpole9181 3y agoTo be fair, Native American culture was the victim of a 200-year genocide, is still actively repressed today for corporate interests, and has virtually no healthy, nostalgic population left to actively champion and revive it. There were Native American cities with the population of London, they had (ephemeral, regional) writing and counting systems, etc. But aside from anthropologists and a few survivors, all of that culture is dead and gone.
- justrealist 3y agoThat's true and I don't mean to cast blame on how we got here. But it's disappointing in practice. My wife and kids are tribal members (technically, albeit at long distance) so we stop by Pow Wows sometimes and I feel like there's a lot of missed opportunity. Mostly ends up being a place to resell commercial trinkets (of course with some exceptions).
- Tadpole9181 3y agoOh, I apologize if I came across as accusatory! That wasn't my intention.
- defrost 3y agoNot entirely despite best efforts to the contrary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTJvpfkRRdA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTJvpfkRRdA
- huytersd 3y agoIndian culture (from India) is another culture that puts a lot of effort into cultural preservation.
- Klonoar 3y agoThat “crispness” wears off if you actually live in the culture for a bit and realize it’s just a different way of doing things. It’s really not particularly special. I’ve been in festivals for Brazilian culture, Taiwanese, etc and they can be just as fulfilling to experience. The real thing to grapple with is that the tech industry in particular has an almost unhealthy exoticism focus on Japan and it colors and elevates any discussion about it beyond any other culture. Seriously - take a shot every time you see a new Japan-focused article hit the front page of this very site. You won’t be drunk but you’ll finish a bottle faster than you’d think.
- Tadpole9181 3y agoI agree the distance makes it even stronger for the Japanese, but as an American I do feel like we have very little identifiably American culture. We're so young, spread out, individualistic, and corporatized. It feels a significant amount of what was positive "American culture" in the age of Art Deco died. We left behind our Grand Central Stations for strip malls and fentanyl and huge parking lots around square beige buildings. And what clearly identifiable culture does exist aren't always pleasant: constant war (both foreign and domestic), gun culture, our views on labor, conservative christianity, anti-intellectualism, etc. So any nation with centuries of culture and tradition catches our eye as something we crave. Whether that's France or Mexico or Japan. That isn't to say we don't have subcultures nestled around, we certainly do. Nor to say other cultures don't have serious negatives / fragmentation we ignore from afar, they certainly do. But a lot of people I know all express the same longing for a sense of belonging. But a bias for Japanese culture does exist. It's better preserved, heavily juxtaposed to ours, has a close relationship with us, and they spend a lot of money to spread it.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoAny culture's citizen will feel the same as you do about their own culture. Immigrants (like me) to the US adore US culture. Some positive examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(culture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(culture)
- Tadpole9181 3y agoOh, for sure! My point is just that America has a lot of factors that exacerbate the reasons those feelings happen. Americana is a good example, IMO. It's more a stereotype used in country songs idealizing a conservative, rural America; but it's not something actually practiced or related to by most Americans. Heck, it's often actively opposed!
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoEvery culture has positive and negative aspects. Several positive aspects of US culture belong to non conservative areas: NYC, Hollywood, NASA, Silicon Valley, etc. Culture is not just ancient low tech practice. American culture is so globally ubiquitous we don’t even recognize it when we do it. E.g, despite animosity between China/US, Chinese citizens are fond of US culture (and vice-versa): https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/04/world/asia/china-jackson-hole-jiang/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/04/world/asia/china-jackson-hole... Japanese culture likewise has some negative aspects too: grope issue on trains, monoethnic culture where almost no other races can live as real equals, innovation and risk being actively discouraged, etc.
- smegsicle 3y agojust wait until you hear about other cultures
- lizardking 3y agoI don’t understand the reason for this snark (or the down votes).
- smegsicle 3y agonot sure what down votes, and i know that demanding someone take culture seriously feels like ray liotta in his underwear and a hairnet tearfully insisting 'fear me', but i imagine there's an even richer heritage much closer to home
- lizardking 3y agoGP comment was being down voted at the time of my reply. There’s no objective measure for richness of a culture, so you can’t guarantee anything of the sort. People are into whatever they are into.
- ms2718 3y ago[flagged]
- huytersd 3y agoDo you also like Japanese culture?
- thedailymail 3y agoI've been in Japan for 29 years and, while I can't say I've never been bored, I do find new (or very old) things all the time that keep life interesting.
- farrarstan 3y ago[dead]
- npteljes 3y agoI find that one of the reasons is that creating a tradition is part of the larger Japanese culture itself. Similar to how the Anglosphere likes to create new words via contractions, just to have a word for a very specific meaning, in Japan everything is encouraged to connect to a tradition, or a cultural reason for it.
- Retric 3y agoLooks like a more labor intensive refinement of the much older techniques of copping and pollarding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollarding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollarding
- culi 3y agoI don't think copping and pollarding are "older". They're just the European (rough) equivalents
- Retric 3y agoCoppicing predates writing, pollarding was written about in 1st century BC so it’s at least that old. Daisugi is mentioned as 600 years old so ~1500 years more recent. Daisugi could in theory be significantly older than 600 years, but it’s origins seems well documented.
- culi 3y agoSure but the practice of whatever-you'd-call-Japanese-pollarding is obviously older than daisugi since that's just pollarding with the discovery of a particular tree that's really really good at it. That discovery wouldn't have been made if people weren't already pollarding. Other extremely meticulous plant manipulation traditions like bonsai are confirmed to be over 3k years old
- RoyalHenOil 3y agoI'm quite confused. Japanese people practiced pollarding, and then later developed a more complex and refined variant of it known as daisugi. That's the original comment's claim, and you seem to making that exact same claim here, but phrasing it as if you are right and the original commenter is wrong.
- culi 3y ago
- dang 3y agoRelated: Daisugi, the 600-year-old Japanese technique of growing trees out of other trees - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26941631 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26941631 - April 2021 (171 comments)
- turminal 3y agoI'm not sure calling this a "technique" is entirely accurate. It's mostly made possible by a unique genetic mutation that some tree happened to develop. All the trees this can be done with are clones of that tree.
- kaba0 3y agoCopping and pollarding doesn’t require genetic identity. E.g. you can grow pears from the branches of an apple tree (they still have to be somewhat close genetically, which is true here).
- seszett 3y agoWell... growing pears on an apple tree is doable but not really practical, pear and apple trees are generally not graft-compatible and they will need specific interstock. It's rarely done. But coppicing, pollarding and daisugi have nothing to do with grafting. It's just that daisugi works with only one tree and its rooted cuttings, but no grafting is involved.
- needle0 3y agoHow many "____, the Japanese ____ of ____" exist?
- Groxx 3y agoTsundoku will forever be my favorite: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-44981013 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-44981013
- Kouley24 3y agosound interesting
- silcoon 3y agoTrees growing out of other trees is a natural process that occurs in different environments in a natural way. I saw a lot of examples in rainforests. There are trees that survive on top of other trees, or trees that keep expanding themself with large branches that they become a small tree by itself (ficus tree[1]). [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=ficus+tree+palermo https://www.google.com/search?q=ficus+tree+palermo
- NDreamWorld 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- charles_f 3y agoA fascinating sight in the Pacific northwest forests, especially close to large cities like Vancouver or Seattle, where the lumber industry decimated old growth forests, is big cedars, spruce and fir growing off huge rotten stumps. They're nothing like straight and perfectly round, but it's very beautiful
- dclowd9901 3y agoI thought you were going to talk about the octopus tree and its brethren on the coasts there. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/octopus-tree-of-oregon https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/octopus-tree-of-oregon
- nullc 3y agoAs opposed to the Pacific Northwest Tree octopus: https://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/ https://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- ycombinete 3y agoThe cedar becomes a parasite.
- shultays 3y agoOr as us dirty gaijins call it: grafting
- tuukkah 3y agoSorry, it is not similar to grafting.