7 ms·

I'm Loud Quitting My Job Due to RTO Policy, Bad Company Culture

65 points by pg_1234 3y ago

pg_1234 3y ago
https://archive.ph/17zc6 https://archive.ph/17zc6
- whoopsie 3y ago
  Thanks. There should be a legal accreditation setup so anyone who worked on that’s site’s advertising is life banned from participating in VR or any new medium.
theoldlove 3y ago
Feels like anonymity and “loud quitting” don’t go well together.
yieldcrv 3y ago
actually a good reason to unionize, companies doing unnecessary things at the expense of employees that checks the box, doesn't matter what other industries do they’re not living in the 21st century like we are, bring these companies to the negotiating table.
- shitlord 3y ago
  Have remote workers considered political solutions to the RTO problem? In cities like SF or Seattle, many of the people living there don't want you there. You also don't want to be there. So why not team up and make some noise about increasing taxes on businesses that don't allow WFH?
  - wildrhythms 3y ago
    What the hell is a 'political solution'?
    - shitlord 3y ago
      Anything involving the government. An overwhelming majority of remote workers do not want to return to the office. There are plenty of tech workers in this position, and many avenues to make your voice heard. For example, you could lobby the state legislature for a new tax on technology companies over a certain size that force remote employees back into the office. Maybe the threat of new taxes and regulations are enough to force a course correction.
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    Wow. You think a city is going to PUNISH a business for bringing people back into its decimated downtown to spend money on lunches and coffees, thereby increasing tax revenue? Not to mention supporting the public transportation system? Really?
    - shitlord 3y ago
      Most west coast cities have had problems with vagrancy, shoplifting, zoning, etc. for years. As far as tax revenue is concerned, this isn't so farfetched. The state government may be willing to play ball if the city legislature doesn't. One argument for taxing these businesses is that they will increase the number of vehicles on the roads. I'm not so fluent with the language of social justice, but this could be spun as pro-environment and anti-gentrification.
      - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
        I don't think that many people are driving to work in San Francisco. Can't speak for other CA cities except L.A., whose downtown is not all that significant because L.A. is essentially a giant county masquerading as a city.
elhudy 3y ago
I get the sentiment but this reads more like an angry tirade than anything. I would probably be better off with my five minutes back. But now i feel obligated to respond. As someone new to my organization and team I’ve greatly benefited from a partial rto mandate. There’s something about being able to quickly bounce ideas or questions off a team that physically sits around you that slack can’t quite emulate. There are productive discussions that happen which simply would not have otherwise happened. Teams become closer as they better understand each other and get to know what motivates one another (not always the paycheck, as in OP case). You become more empowered to take a step back out of your daily work and give consideration to the bigger picture when you’re surrounded by other groups. I’ve worked remotely most of my life and am a proponent of it. I also think moving someone who was hired as a remote employee, to an in-person role, is a huge dick move. But to pretend like there are no benefits to occasionally being in-person seems like naivety bordering ignorance (For most team based roles which require strategic thinking). Hiring can become a bigger challenge when your competition allows fully remote work, and companies should expect to increase compensation in one form or another, or otherwise lose talent. For some companies, e.g. mine, those steps have been worth taking. Small price to pay to preserve our awesome culture.
- danw1979 3y ago
  To further your point about new team members benefiting from RTO: I’m six months into a mostly remote contract gig (2 days a week in the office) at a large financial services company, in a team that was very well distributed across the country even before the pandemic. I’m based out of an office that would have been peripheral to most of the team anyway, even if we were fully onsite. It’s been the most difficult start to any job I’ve ever had. The total lack of face-to-face with any of the team means I can’t get to know anyone else, there’s no cooperation whatsoever and zero knowledge transfer… getting time to chat with your colleagues requires booking a meeting in their well-stuffed calendar weeks in advance. We get a half-hour slot per week with the Tech Leads to ask questions, which means I’m blocked frequently, and any other comms with them is through MS Teams, where you’re lucky to get a reply that day. I suggested more frequent scheduled time with the leads but that was knocked back immediately. This is a place with no culture. We are literally not a team. It’s a prime candidate for a centralised office with a mostly onsite policy, in my humble opinion…
ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
[flagged]
jijijijiji 3y ago
I "loud quit" a job exactly once. It wasn't a coincidence that it was also my first job. I was absolutely convinced I was practically and morally right in my complaints, and therefore colleagues would agree and support my "cause". In reality, no-one cared - my peers simply avoided me, because no-one wants to be associated with a loose cannon, and you will almost never change the mind of company leadership.
weq 3y ago
Goto work everyday at a job you dont like, driven by a culture you dont agree with.... but stay because you get payed blood money. Behold the story of the capitalism and thoughts of the elites worldwide (eventually). They have all the money, but have no forfillment, no time to enjoy it, or dont even know how to enjoy anymore, even in early retirement. The grind isnt as glamourise as the motivation porn you idolise. You spend your whole life looking for an answer in status, money and power - so even if it eventually comes, you know nothing else and get pleasure no other way.
_8j50 3y ago
You know it just feels like the ruling class will tell us what to do and we have to go along with it. Here we are debating RTO policy as if our opinions will make a difference. They want you back in the office except they don't want you to have an actual office unless you are very special at most places. I get the whole "collaborate" angle but different teams collaborate differently. And when you have team members who are fully remote but you have to do partial rto then the remote team members get excluded from that collaboration. It's just one big shitty copy cat management cancer. This is also why everyone and their mother were laying off people, the in-group country club members decided to fight "antiwork" culuture and rising wages by setting a trend and having everyone copy cat after them. "Money-see, monkey do" management. I hope Gen-Z would get proper politicians in power to rein in the ruling class some day.
- lazystar 3y ago
  eh. companies that do it right will thrive, companies that mess up will fall by the wayside. the beauty of capitalism is these RTO decisions open up different avenues of competitive advantage.
  - _8j50 3y ago
    Not if they collectively refuse to compete for talent.
TheGigaChad 3y ago
[dead]
mobiuscog 3y ago
Many companies seem to be making changes due to failing business models or pressure from investors, such that the culture and work/life balance suffers. This, in turn, kills morale and within remote work is more likely to affect collaboration to a much greater level, thus reducing 'productivity' rather than making things better as perhaps intended. The end result looks as if it is remote work being a problem, but the cause is management 'tightening the screws'. The fantastic culture and respect that brought the innovation and success will fade and the value creators will leave. Forcing people back into the office will obviously not solve the problem. It just makes it easier to shout at people and analyse their daily behaviour in the belief that such metrics are the answer. "We prefer people over process" is clearly dead. Servant Leadership is gone. Taskmasters and labour camps are looking to return. All hail the cubicle farm.

65 points by pg_1234 3y ago

pg_1234 3y ago

https://archive.ph/17zc6 https://archive.ph/17zc6

whoopsie 3y ago
Thanks. There should be a legal accreditation setup so anyone who worked on that’s site’s advertising is life banned from participating in VR or any new medium.

theoldlove 3y ago

Feels like anonymity and “loud quitting” don’t go well together.

yieldcrv 3y ago

actually a good reason to unionize, companies doing unnecessary things at the expense of employees that checks the box, doesn't matter what other industries do they’re not living in the 21st century like we are, bring these companies to the negotiating table.

shitlord 3y ago
Have remote workers considered political solutions to the RTO problem? In cities like SF or Seattle, many of the people living there don't want you there. You also don't want to be there. So why not team up and make some noise about increasing taxes on businesses that don't allow WFH?
- wildrhythms 3y ago
  What the hell is a 'political solution'?
  - shitlord 3y ago
    Anything involving the government. An overwhelming majority of remote workers do not want to return to the office. There are plenty of tech workers in this position, and many avenues to make your voice heard. For example, you could lobby the state legislature for a new tax on technology companies over a certain size that force remote employees back into the office. Maybe the threat of new taxes and regulations are enough to force a course correction.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  Wow. You think a city is going to PUNISH a business for bringing people back into its decimated downtown to spend money on lunches and coffees, thereby increasing tax revenue? Not to mention supporting the public transportation system? Really?
  - shitlord 3y ago
    Most west coast cities have had problems with vagrancy, shoplifting, zoning, etc. for years. As far as tax revenue is concerned, this isn't so farfetched. The state government may be willing to play ball if the city legislature doesn't. One argument for taxing these businesses is that they will increase the number of vehicles on the roads. I'm not so fluent with the language of social justice, but this could be spun as pro-environment and anti-gentrification.
    - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
      I don't think that many people are driving to work in San Francisco. Can't speak for other CA cities except L.A., whose downtown is not all that significant because L.A. is essentially a giant county masquerading as a city.

elhudy 3y ago

I get the sentiment but this reads more like an angry tirade than anything. I would probably be better off with my five minutes back. But now i feel obligated to respond. As someone new to my organization and team I’ve greatly benefited from a partial rto mandate. There’s something about being able to quickly bounce ideas or questions off a team that physically sits around you that slack can’t quite emulate. There are productive discussions that happen which simply would not have otherwise happened. Teams become closer as they better understand each other and get to know what motivates one another (not always the paycheck, as in OP case). You become more empowered to take a step back out of your daily work and give consideration to the bigger picture when you’re surrounded by other groups. I’ve worked remotely most of my life and am a proponent of it. I also think moving someone who was hired as a remote employee, to an in-person role, is a huge dick move. But to pretend like there are no benefits to occasionally being in-person seems like naivety bordering ignorance (For most team based roles which require strategic thinking). Hiring can become a bigger challenge when your competition allows fully remote work, and companies should expect to increase compensation in one form or another, or otherwise lose talent. For some companies, e.g. mine, those steps have been worth taking. Small price to pay to preserve our awesome culture.

danw1979 3y ago
To further your point about new team members benefiting from RTO: I’m six months into a mostly remote contract gig (2 days a week in the office) at a large financial services company, in a team that was very well distributed across the country even before the pandemic. I’m based out of an office that would have been peripheral to most of the team anyway, even if we were fully onsite. It’s been the most difficult start to any job I’ve ever had. The total lack of face-to-face with any of the team means I can’t get to know anyone else, there’s no cooperation whatsoever and zero knowledge transfer… getting time to chat with your colleagues requires booking a meeting in their well-stuffed calendar weeks in advance. We get a half-hour slot per week with the Tech Leads to ask questions, which means I’m blocked frequently, and any other comms with them is through MS Teams, where you’re lucky to get a reply that day. I suggested more frequent scheduled time with the leads but that was knocked back immediately. This is a place with no culture. We are literally not a team. It’s a prime candidate for a centralised office with a mostly onsite policy, in my humble opinion…

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago

[flagged]

jijijijiji 3y ago

I "loud quit" a job exactly once. It wasn't a coincidence that it was also my first job. I was absolutely convinced I was practically and morally right in my complaints, and therefore colleagues would agree and support my "cause". In reality, no-one cared - my peers simply avoided me, because no-one wants to be associated with a loose cannon, and you will almost never change the mind of company leadership.

weq 3y ago

Goto work everyday at a job you dont like, driven by a culture you dont agree with.... but stay because you get payed blood money. Behold the story of the capitalism and thoughts of the elites worldwide (eventually). They have all the money, but have no forfillment, no time to enjoy it, or dont even know how to enjoy anymore, even in early retirement. The grind isnt as glamourise as the motivation porn you idolise. You spend your whole life looking for an answer in status, money and power - so even if it eventually comes, you know nothing else and get pleasure no other way.

_8j50 3y ago

You know it just feels like the ruling class will tell us what to do and we have to go along with it. Here we are debating RTO policy as if our opinions will make a difference. They want you back in the office except they don't want you to have an actual office unless you are very special at most places. I get the whole "collaborate" angle but different teams collaborate differently. And when you have team members who are fully remote but you have to do partial rto then the remote team members get excluded from that collaboration. It's just one big shitty copy cat management cancer. This is also why everyone and their mother were laying off people, the in-group country club members decided to fight "antiwork" culuture and rising wages by setting a trend and having everyone copy cat after them. "Money-see, monkey do" management. I hope Gen-Z would get proper politicians in power to rein in the ruling class some day.

lazystar 3y ago
eh. companies that do it right will thrive, companies that mess up will fall by the wayside. the beauty of capitalism is these RTO decisions open up different avenues of competitive advantage.
- _8j50 3y ago
  Not if they collectively refuse to compete for talent.

TheGigaChad 3y ago

[dead]

mobiuscog 3y ago

Many companies seem to be making changes due to failing business models or pressure from investors, such that the culture and work/life balance suffers. This, in turn, kills morale and within remote work is more likely to affect collaboration to a much greater level, thus reducing 'productivity' rather than making things better as perhaps intended. The end result looks as if it is remote work being a problem, but the cause is management 'tightening the screws'. The fantastic culture and respect that brought the innovation and success will fade and the value creators will leave. Forcing people back into the office will obviously not solve the problem. It just makes it easier to shout at people and analyse their daily behaviour in the belief that such metrics are the answer. "We prefer people over process" is clearly dead. Servant Leadership is gone. Taskmasters and labour camps are looking to return. All hail the cubicle farm.