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> Capitalism will always choose “deals” and profit over important priorities like the environment and worker pay, safety, and lives. > I say, instead of less r

by alexb_ 3y ago

> Capitalism will always choose “deals” and profit over important priorities like the environment and worker pay, safety, and lives. > I say, instead of less regulation, we nationalize all airline industry. Pull profit out of the equation. Humans do not give a shit about anything other than their own incentives. Yes, even you and me. If you hand control to politicians, people will still act according to their incentives. There is absolutely nothing about capitalism that changes human behavior to be greedy - humans are greedy, whether it be for money or for social status.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aaomidi 3y ago
> There is absolutely nothing about capitalism that changes human behavior to be greedy - humans are greedy, whether it be for money or for social status. For the vast majority of human history, humans have been cooperative and not greedy. You’re making a spectacular claim without a source. There’s plenty written on this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781880/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781880/
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 3y ago
  So are you.
- gruez 3y ago
  >You’re making a spectacular claim without a source. Hilarious since you also made a claim without a source in the prior sentence.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  We’re arguably living in one of the most peaceful periods in history[0]. There are wars, but there is literally a political body where 193 of 195 countries regularly discuss issues with physical violence. Assuming violence is a proxy for greed, it’s quite a time to be alive (we’ll see how long it lasts). 0 - https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-years https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-yea...
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    Look at where that graph started.
runarberg 3y ago
Perhaps you are right, but this point is irrelevant. Capitalism incentivizes and rewards this behavior, so you can expect more of it. A democratic government has different incentives and are rewarded for an entirely different set of behaviors. Capitalism may not change the behavior of a single individual. But does certainly put the greediest to the top of society, and in aggregate you see more greediness among those that have the power to change things.
- gruez 3y ago
  >Capitalism incentivizes and rewards this behavior, so you can expect more of it. A democratic government has different incentives and are rewarded for an entirely different set of behaviors. Wait but is Australia not a democratic government? cue the inevitable "but it's not true [democracy/communism/capitalism]!"
  - runarberg 3y ago
    Yes, Australia is a democratic government. I don’t understand where I’m claiming it isn’t. However the airline industry is not run by the Australian government, instead it is run by a for profit capitalist company (in this case the Qatar government), who’s intensive is to maximize the profit for their shareholder. The Austrialian government doesn’t even own the majority shares of the airline in question.
amelius 3y ago
Please speak for yourself. Most people don't want to be assholes. Companies however don't care and most of them are acting as assholes.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  Unfortunately, the people who weasel their way into power, more often than not, don’t have the same convictions as you regardless of whether it’s private or public sector. At least I don’t have to be a customer of the private sector. Once things are nationalized, the same jerks are running the show based on incentives that are only aligned with their own prosperity, but now impact an entire constituency. Every time you hear a public servant talk about a problem with metrics that make no sense to solving the actual issues, their incentives become more obvious.
  - amelius 3y ago
    There's one difference though: in the case of public servants, we (the electorate) still have power over them.
    - gruez 3y ago
      1. how well did that work in 2016? 2. Companies are also subject to laws and regulations, which are enacted by public servants
    - fallingknife 3y ago
      Then why is it that when I had a problem with the IRS that it was an absolute nightmare to solve. Even getting a person on the phone was difficult. But when I have a problem with an Amazon order, I can get a refund in a few clicks. Turns out my power to choose to not be a customer gives me infinitely more power over a company than my right to vote gives me over a company.
      - amelius 3y ago
        Did you write a letter to the ombudsman? Anyway, the rule of law should protect individual citizens. Government institutions or officials shouldn't get special treatment or protection. In case they do, then there's your problem. Not with the government entirely, but with the legislative branch (which companies are also subjected to).

by alexb_ 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

aaomidi 3y ago

> There is absolutely nothing about capitalism that changes human behavior to be greedy - humans are greedy, whether it be for money or for social status. For the vast majority of human history, humans have been cooperative and not greedy. You’re making a spectacular claim without a source. There’s plenty written on this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781880/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781880/

isbvhodnvemrwvn 3y ago
So are you.
gruez 3y ago
>You’re making a spectacular claim without a source. Hilarious since you also made a claim without a source in the prior sentence.
jonhohle 3y ago
We’re arguably living in one of the most peaceful periods in history[0]. There are wars, but there is literally a political body where 193 of 195 countries regularly discuss issues with physical violence. Assuming violence is a proxy for greed, it’s quite a time to be alive (we’ll see how long it lasts). 0 - https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-years https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-yea...
- aaomidi 3y ago
  Look at where that graph started.

runarberg 3y ago

Perhaps you are right, but this point is irrelevant. Capitalism incentivizes and rewards this behavior, so you can expect more of it. A democratic government has different incentives and are rewarded for an entirely different set of behaviors. Capitalism may not change the behavior of a single individual. But does certainly put the greediest to the top of society, and in aggregate you see more greediness among those that have the power to change things.

gruez 3y ago
>Capitalism incentivizes and rewards this behavior, so you can expect more of it. A democratic government has different incentives and are rewarded for an entirely different set of behaviors. Wait but is Australia not a democratic government? cue the inevitable "but it's not true [democracy/communism/capitalism]!"
- runarberg 3y ago
  Yes, Australia is a democratic government. I don’t understand where I’m claiming it isn’t. However the airline industry is not run by the Australian government, instead it is run by a for profit capitalist company (in this case the Qatar government), who’s intensive is to maximize the profit for their shareholder. The Austrialian government doesn’t even own the majority shares of the airline in question.

amelius 3y ago

Please speak for yourself. Most people don't want to be assholes. Companies however don't care and most of them are acting as assholes.

jonhohle 3y ago
Unfortunately, the people who weasel their way into power, more often than not, don’t have the same convictions as you regardless of whether it’s private or public sector. At least I don’t have to be a customer of the private sector. Once things are nationalized, the same jerks are running the show based on incentives that are only aligned with their own prosperity, but now impact an entire constituency. Every time you hear a public servant talk about a problem with metrics that make no sense to solving the actual issues, their incentives become more obvious.
- amelius 3y ago
  There's one difference though: in the case of public servants, we (the electorate) still have power over them.
  - gruez 3y ago
    1. how well did that work in 2016? 2. Companies are also subject to laws and regulations, which are enacted by public servants
  - fallingknife 3y ago
    Then why is it that when I had a problem with the IRS that it was an absolute nightmare to solve. Even getting a person on the phone was difficult. But when I have a problem with an Amazon order, I can get a refund in a few clicks. Turns out my power to choose to not be a customer gives me infinitely more power over a company than my right to vote gives me over a company.
    - amelius 3y ago
      Did you write a letter to the ombudsman? Anyway, the rule of law should protect individual citizens. Government institutions or officials shouldn't get special treatment or protection. In case they do, then there's your problem. Not with the government entirely, but with the legislative branch (which companies are also subjected to).