6 ms·

> deals This is the problem. Capitalism will always choose “deals” and profit over important priorities like the environment and worker pay, safety, and lives.

> deals This is the problem. Capitalism will always choose “deals” and profit over important priorities like the environment and worker pay, safety, and lives. I say, instead of less regulation, we nationalize all airline industry. Pull profit out of the equation.

ajmurmann 3y ago
Or we could tax carbon and internalized the negative externality. If you think that without capitalism we suddenly would take care of the environment, compare the destruction of the environment in communist countries to capitalist ones. Soviet Russia had a "nuclear lake" they just dumped nuclear waste into, Bitterfeld in the GDR was known for having it's creeks discolored from the chemicals dumped into them, the amount of smoke coming out of old, massive rural Chinese factories is hard to imagine if you haven't seen it; The Trabant spewed out orders of magnitude more exhausted than any western car. The problem isn't capitalism, but resource constraints.
- esotericimpl 3y ago
  [dead]
fallingknife 3y ago
You want to solve the problem of stupid rules and procedures that result in massive inefficiency by putting government bureaucrats in charge?
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> instead of less regulation, we nationalize all airline industry Qatar is state owned.
ExoticPearTree 3y ago
> I say, instead of less regulation, we nationalize all airline industry. Pull profit out of the equation. What you are proposing is for travelers to receive crappy service, no recourse for when the government employees don't feel like working and so on. Why on earth would you want this?
xyzelement 3y ago
Will the planes fly?
alexb_ 3y ago
> Capitalism will always choose “deals” and profit over important priorities like the environment and worker pay, safety, and lives. > I say, instead of less regulation, we nationalize all airline industry. Pull profit out of the equation. Humans do not give a shit about anything other than their own incentives. Yes, even you and me. If you hand control to politicians, people will still act according to their incentives. There is absolutely nothing about capitalism that changes human behavior to be greedy - humans are greedy, whether it be for money or for social status.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- aaomidi 3y ago
  > There is absolutely nothing about capitalism that changes human behavior to be greedy - humans are greedy, whether it be for money or for social status. For the vast majority of human history, humans have been cooperative and not greedy. You’re making a spectacular claim without a source. There’s plenty written on this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781880/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781880/
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 3y ago
    So are you.
  - gruez 3y ago
    >You’re making a spectacular claim without a source. Hilarious since you also made a claim without a source in the prior sentence.
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    We’re arguably living in one of the most peaceful periods in history[0]. There are wars, but there is literally a political body where 193 of 195 countries regularly discuss issues with physical violence. Assuming violence is a proxy for greed, it’s quite a time to be alive (we’ll see how long it lasts). 0 - https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-years https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-yea...
vxNsr 3y ago
Ah yes, because operating it as a national service is really gonna make it sooo much better… Removing all incentives is surely gonna make people want to do their best. You know many counties originally had only a single or two nationalized airline and all of them were such money drains that the governments were all forced to privatize them to keep them afloat.
brvsft 3y ago
The "deal" is mandated by a regulation. These companies couldn't choose the deal if the regulation putting forth the deal did not exist at all. As a sibling commenter noted, people (and organizations) respond to incentives. When you make a regulation that incentivizes these companies to use up slots, they're going to do it simply because they know the competition will also do it, and if they do not, they lose. These rules were poorly planned, as they did not account for the incentives or the unintended consequences in the event that these flights did not actually have to occur. And after this happens, they're attempting to blame businesses for responding to the incentive. Say I were to go into a crowded room and announce that I will give $10,000 to whoever breaks some specific person's nose. Who's to blame? Yeah, probably some combination of the people who took the money and especially me, who put forward the idea or "deal" that resulted in people taking action when they otherwise would not have done anything like this.

ajmurmann 3y ago

Or we could tax carbon and internalized the negative externality. If you think that without capitalism we suddenly would take care of the environment, compare the destruction of the environment in communist countries to capitalist ones. Soviet Russia had a "nuclear lake" they just dumped nuclear waste into, Bitterfeld in the GDR was known for having it's creeks discolored from the chemicals dumped into them, the amount of smoke coming out of old, massive rural Chinese factories is hard to imagine if you haven't seen it; The Trabant spewed out orders of magnitude more exhausted than any western car. The problem isn't capitalism, but resource constraints.

esotericimpl 3y ago
[dead]

fallingknife 3y ago

You want to solve the problem of stupid rules and procedures that result in massive inefficiency by putting government bureaucrats in charge?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> instead of less regulation, we nationalize all airline industry Qatar is state owned.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago

> I say, instead of less regulation, we nationalize all airline industry. Pull profit out of the equation. What you are proposing is for travelers to receive crappy service, no recourse for when the government employees don't feel like working and so on. Why on earth would you want this?

xyzelement 3y ago

Will the planes fly?

alexb_ 3y ago

> Capitalism will always choose “deals” and profit over important priorities like the environment and worker pay, safety, and lives. > I say, instead of less regulation, we nationalize all airline industry. Pull profit out of the equation. Humans do not give a shit about anything other than their own incentives. Yes, even you and me. If you hand control to politicians, people will still act according to their incentives. There is absolutely nothing about capitalism that changes human behavior to be greedy - humans are greedy, whether it be for money or for social status.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aaomidi 3y ago
> There is absolutely nothing about capitalism that changes human behavior to be greedy - humans are greedy, whether it be for money or for social status. For the vast majority of human history, humans have been cooperative and not greedy. You’re making a spectacular claim without a source. There’s plenty written on this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781880/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781880/
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 3y ago
  So are you.
- gruez 3y ago
  >You’re making a spectacular claim without a source. Hilarious since you also made a claim without a source in the prior sentence.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  We’re arguably living in one of the most peaceful periods in history[0]. There are wars, but there is literally a political body where 193 of 195 countries regularly discuss issues with physical violence. Assuming violence is a proxy for greed, it’s quite a time to be alive (we’ll see how long it lasts). 0 - https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-years https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-yea...

vxNsr 3y ago

Ah yes, because operating it as a national service is really gonna make it sooo much better… Removing all incentives is surely gonna make people want to do their best. You know many counties originally had only a single or two nationalized airline and all of them were such money drains that the governments were all forced to privatize them to keep them afloat.

brvsft 3y ago

The "deal" is mandated by a regulation. These companies couldn't choose the deal if the regulation putting forth the deal did not exist at all. As a sibling commenter noted, people (and organizations) respond to incentives. When you make a regulation that incentivizes these companies to use up slots, they're going to do it simply because they know the competition will also do it, and if they do not, they lose. These rules were poorly planned, as they did not account for the incentives or the unintended consequences in the event that these flights did not actually have to occur. And after this happens, they're attempting to blame businesses for responding to the incentive. Say I were to go into a crowded room and announce that I will give $10,000 to whoever breaks some specific person's nose. Who's to blame? Yeah, probably some combination of the people who took the money and especially me, who put forward the idea or "deal" that resulted in people taking action when they otherwise would not have done anything like this.