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I've asked my guy friends whether they would get this procedure, and none of them will. Guys expect women to mess with their bodies, but are not willing to make

I've asked my guy friends whether they would get this procedure, and none of them will. Guys expect women to mess with their bodies, but are not willing to make the sacrifice themselves when it comes down to it, even though this is more safe and harmless than pumping your body with hormones every day.

kisielk 15y ago
Not sure why some guys have so many reservations about this, it sounds like a simple and reversible procedure with a quick recovery. I'd get it if it were available in Canada.
- salsakran 15y ago
  Uhm, it involves cutting open your scrotum. The idea that people will casually do this is ... hilarious.
  - pjscott 15y ago
    The incisions are very small, made under local anesthetic, and recovery time should be quick. Doesn't that sound less frightening than hormonal birth control?
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      Local anaesthetic is hardly a selling point to me. I'd prefer general, even thought that has the slight risk of death. Better than the (in my experience) 100% chance of "whoops! We'll give you another shot of that and give it a few more minutes to set in." That's happened to be with 2 back surgeries, one on my arm, and every filling I've ever had done. Anyway, I'd get this procedure done in a heartbeat anyway.
  - xibernetik 15y ago
    And current birth control methods for women include injections of artificial hormones, dilating their cervix and putting a piece of plastic or metal part their vagina and into their body, and surgery to open the stomach and clamp certain organs shut. Whether or not it's hilarious, those practices are accepted as normal. Birth control that involves body modifications is anything but casual, but to draw the line of it being ridiculous at when it involves male genitalia is a bit narrow-minded.
    - mkmkmmmmm 15y ago
      The line is at surgery, don't act like anyone is saying otherwise.
  - kisielk 15y ago
    What's so special about the scrotum versus another part of your body? People regularly punch holes through their ears and other parts of their skin, and even get their children to do the same. A lot of parents even agree to or request that skin from the end of their newborn's penis is cut off.
  - bconway 15y ago
    You must be young. Vasectomies are a perfectly normal and routine operation in later life. I'd wager a large percentage (if not a majority) of age 50+ men in the US have them done. It hurts for a weekend, and then it's over, not a big deal. This sounds like a significant improvement over the current procedure.
    - joezydeco 15y ago
      "I'd wager a large percentage (if not a majority) of age 50+ men in the US have them done" In my sample group, it's not as large as you think. I'm a 43 year-old post-vasectomy father and out of a group of ten close male friends/relatives I've encountered 2 close calls and 2 oops babies. And these are intelligent responsible men. The majority of the excuses range from "I just never got around to it" to "I don't want to get cut". Seriously?
      - stavrianos 15y ago
        I'm in my mid-twenties, and was seriously considering it when I thought it was reliably reversible. My reading at the time indicated that this wasn't the case and there was a good chance that you'd stay sterile after reversing the operation. This struck me as a very good reason not to get a vasectomy.
  - pilgrim689 15y ago
    The scrotum isn't "cut open". It's a pinhole-size incision.
  - pilgrim689 15y ago
    The scrotum isn't "cut open". It's a pinhole-size incision.
  - pilgrim689 15y ago
    The scrotum isn't "cut open". It's a pinhole-size incision.
pinchyfingers 15y ago
Your friends must not get laid a lot, or are very monogamous.
esrauch 15y ago
I would rather pump my body full of hormones than have invasive surgery. You wouldn't?
- xibernetik 15y ago
  As far as invasive surgeries (and birth control) goes, it's really not that invasive if it can be performed in 15 minutes without general anesthetic by a regular doctor. Even IUDs require more time than that. Would you still be okay with the hormones if they caused you to gain 15 lbs of fat, lose your libido and render your SO unattractive to you? It's not as simple as swallowing a pill every morning and getting on with your life -- hormonal treatments have very real and sometimes significant side effects.
  - esrauch 15y ago
    What you are describing is a possible effect, but there is no way that is the median side effect of standard oral birth control. This type of claim always comes up whenever there is any story about new birth control. The effects of the hormones cannot possibly be worse than just not having sex since you always have the option to not have sex or always use condoms. I simply cannot believe that it is so bad considering literally every girl I know, even the ones without boyfriends and who aren't having sex or planning to have sex in the immediate future. Everyone I know in person talks just as much about how it clears up their acne as the negatives that are always posted in the comments here.
    - vacri 15y ago
      Contraceptive pills aren't like headache pills - you don't pop them on demand. They require stabilisation time. There are contraceptive pills that are just pop-on-demand - the morning-after pill - and they're really unpleasant.
    - Jem 15y ago
      [Disclaimer: anecdote] I was on depo provera for over 3 years. It destroyed my sex drive, nearly caused the end of my relationship, gave me terrible recurring headaches and mood swings. I came off it, and after 18 months my body was still all over the place; I ended up taking different hormone-based contraceptives to try and re-jig my system. Few months after all that I became pregnant with twins but miscarried at 8 weeks. I know that logically miscarriage is 'normal' and common, but a tiny part of me can't help but think that screwing with my body + hormones was the cause there.
randfish 15y ago
I'll publicly go on record as saying I'd do this (if it's as safe and well-tested as the article suggests). I think, like many other things, it simply takes some public examples, preferably high profile, to help instill trust in people.
Eliezer 15y ago
I got a vasectomy, even though I was sad about that, when my primary was reacting poorly to birth control. I wish that this had existed six years ago or that I had known about it. You have the wrong guy friends.
- StavrosK 15y ago
  This is unrelated, but I started Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality today and I can't put it down, so thanks!
neutronicus 15y ago
Psh. If I can afford this it is 100% on.
- spydum 15y ago
  In the US, a vasectomy runs about $400-600 (often covered by health insurance if you have it), and is largely just for the doctors time. Sounds like this should be the same if not cheaper by a very insignificant margin.
vacri 15y ago
I'd happily have this done, if it were available. Screw what 'guys expect', I don't want a woman to end up 'expecting'.
artsrc 15y ago
From: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/11/health/11patient.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/11/health/11patient.html > about 527,000 vasectomies were performed in this country each year. I have a vasectomy and would have preferred this.
rdl 15y ago
I would definitely get this; already considering vasectomy.

kisielk 15y ago

Not sure why some guys have so many reservations about this, it sounds like a simple and reversible procedure with a quick recovery. I'd get it if it were available in Canada.

salsakran 15y ago
Uhm, it involves cutting open your scrotum. The idea that people will casually do this is ... hilarious.
- pjscott 15y ago
  The incisions are very small, made under local anesthetic, and recovery time should be quick. Doesn't that sound less frightening than hormonal birth control?
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    Local anaesthetic is hardly a selling point to me. I'd prefer general, even thought that has the slight risk of death. Better than the (in my experience) 100% chance of "whoops! We'll give you another shot of that and give it a few more minutes to set in." That's happened to be with 2 back surgeries, one on my arm, and every filling I've ever had done. Anyway, I'd get this procedure done in a heartbeat anyway.
- xibernetik 15y ago
  And current birth control methods for women include injections of artificial hormones, dilating their cervix and putting a piece of plastic or metal part their vagina and into their body, and surgery to open the stomach and clamp certain organs shut. Whether or not it's hilarious, those practices are accepted as normal. Birth control that involves body modifications is anything but casual, but to draw the line of it being ridiculous at when it involves male genitalia is a bit narrow-minded.
  - mkmkmmmmm 15y ago
    The line is at surgery, don't act like anyone is saying otherwise.
- kisielk 15y ago
  What's so special about the scrotum versus another part of your body? People regularly punch holes through their ears and other parts of their skin, and even get their children to do the same. A lot of parents even agree to or request that skin from the end of their newborn's penis is cut off.
- bconway 15y ago
  You must be young. Vasectomies are a perfectly normal and routine operation in later life. I'd wager a large percentage (if not a majority) of age 50+ men in the US have them done. It hurts for a weekend, and then it's over, not a big deal. This sounds like a significant improvement over the current procedure.
  - joezydeco 15y ago
    "I'd wager a large percentage (if not a majority) of age 50+ men in the US have them done" In my sample group, it's not as large as you think. I'm a 43 year-old post-vasectomy father and out of a group of ten close male friends/relatives I've encountered 2 close calls and 2 oops babies. And these are intelligent responsible men. The majority of the excuses range from "I just never got around to it" to "I don't want to get cut". Seriously?
    - stavrianos 15y ago
      I'm in my mid-twenties, and was seriously considering it when I thought it was reliably reversible. My reading at the time indicated that this wasn't the case and there was a good chance that you'd stay sterile after reversing the operation. This struck me as a very good reason not to get a vasectomy.
- pilgrim689 15y ago
  The scrotum isn't "cut open". It's a pinhole-size incision.
- pilgrim689 15y ago
  The scrotum isn't "cut open". It's a pinhole-size incision.
- pilgrim689 15y ago
  The scrotum isn't "cut open". It's a pinhole-size incision.

pinchyfingers 15y ago

Your friends must not get laid a lot, or are very monogamous.

esrauch 15y ago

I would rather pump my body full of hormones than have invasive surgery. You wouldn't?

xibernetik 15y ago
As far as invasive surgeries (and birth control) goes, it's really not that invasive if it can be performed in 15 minutes without general anesthetic by a regular doctor. Even IUDs require more time than that. Would you still be okay with the hormones if they caused you to gain 15 lbs of fat, lose your libido and render your SO unattractive to you? It's not as simple as swallowing a pill every morning and getting on with your life -- hormonal treatments have very real and sometimes significant side effects.
- esrauch 15y ago
  What you are describing is a possible effect, but there is no way that is the median side effect of standard oral birth control. This type of claim always comes up whenever there is any story about new birth control. The effects of the hormones cannot possibly be worse than just not having sex since you always have the option to not have sex or always use condoms. I simply cannot believe that it is so bad considering literally every girl I know, even the ones without boyfriends and who aren't having sex or planning to have sex in the immediate future. Everyone I know in person talks just as much about how it clears up their acne as the negatives that are always posted in the comments here.
  - vacri 15y ago
    Contraceptive pills aren't like headache pills - you don't pop them on demand. They require stabilisation time. There are contraceptive pills that are just pop-on-demand - the morning-after pill - and they're really unpleasant.
  - Jem 15y ago
    [Disclaimer: anecdote] I was on depo provera for over 3 years. It destroyed my sex drive, nearly caused the end of my relationship, gave me terrible recurring headaches and mood swings. I came off it, and after 18 months my body was still all over the place; I ended up taking different hormone-based contraceptives to try and re-jig my system. Few months after all that I became pregnant with twins but miscarried at 8 weeks. I know that logically miscarriage is 'normal' and common, but a tiny part of me can't help but think that screwing with my body + hormones was the cause there.

randfish 15y ago

I'll publicly go on record as saying I'd do this (if it's as safe and well-tested as the article suggests). I think, like many other things, it simply takes some public examples, preferably high profile, to help instill trust in people.

Eliezer 15y ago

I got a vasectomy, even though I was sad about that, when my primary was reacting poorly to birth control. I wish that this had existed six years ago or that I had known about it. You have the wrong guy friends.

StavrosK 15y ago
This is unrelated, but I started Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality today and I can't put it down, so thanks!

neutronicus 15y ago

Psh. If I can afford this it is 100% on.

spydum 15y ago
In the US, a vasectomy runs about $400-600 (often covered by health insurance if you have it), and is largely just for the doctors time. Sounds like this should be the same if not cheaper by a very insignificant margin.

vacri 15y ago

I'd happily have this done, if it were available. Screw what 'guys expect', I don't want a woman to end up 'expecting'.

artsrc 15y ago

From: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/11/health/11patient.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/11/health/11patient.html > about 527,000 vasectomies were performed in this country each year. I have a vasectomy and would have preferred this.

rdl 15y ago

I would definitely get this; already considering vasectomy.