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I don't exactly get the recent surge in nostalgia for the Commodore computers in particular. Don't get me wrong, what people are doing with new replacement part

I don't exactly get the recent surge in nostalgia for the Commodore computers in particular. Don't get me wrong, what people are doing with new replacement parts, crazy mods, even writing complete OS's is nothing short of amazing, but at least on the surface, I don't see what exactly makes this line of hardware so attractive to hobbyists: why not 8086/PC, Macintosh, Amiga, or ZX Spectrum? Is it just abundance / availability? The fact that it is different from the other platforms of the era, whose legacy still lives on in the PC and Mac? I too absolutely love the SID[1], probably the most unique sound chip in all of history, but most people don't even do music with these machines. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFXJF35ER7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFXJF35ER7g

Tuna-Fish 3y ago
The 8-bit generation was special because it's possible for a reasonably involved (as in, someone with a job and a family, can't spend 16 hours a day on this) person to learn and understand literally everything about the machines. It will take a while, but it's an achievable goal as a hobby. The C64 was the most common 8-bit computer, and a lot of people in the age group where they suddenly have a lot of free time and money have fond memories about it. Then it's easy to get lost finding out that that's how that actually worked. The later machines, or even just IBM PC, which predates it, are much more complex systems and you are less likely to fully understand them.
GuB-42 3y ago
The Amigas are (mostly) Commodore computers. Maybe you meant Atari, its main competitor. And speaking of music, the Atari ST was also very popular not because of its sound, but because it had built-in, very low latency MIDI. I think they are so popular because so many kids grew up with C64s, it was both a game console and a "serious" computer. So now, they attract both retro-gamers and programmers who learned on these machines. PCs and Macs were mostly work computers, more expensive and mostly for grownups, so less nostalgia, the ZX Spectrum wasn't great IIRC. The Amiga 500 and Atari ST still have a lot of followers, maybe that they had to share the space made them individually less popular than the C64.
rbanffy 3y ago
The PET had an IEEE-488 bus and these more rounded PETs are gorgeous machines. Sadly, these are not abundant at all - they were far from a commercial success. As why they are attractive over x86 and Macs, is because they are different. Much like the Lisa, they represent the road not taken, or, at least, a past long lost.
amelius 3y ago
Perhaps it's because now these people can finally afford the stuff that they could only dream of when they were kids?
- Clubber 3y ago
  Commodores were pretty affordable, that was why they were so popular. A PC would cost anywhere from $2000-5000 in the mid 80s, but a C64 was $200, IIRC. Vic20s were even cheaper.
fractallyte 3y ago
This was the era of 8 bit computers, and the 6502-based (actually 6510) C64 was the biggest selling model, so there's a lot of affection for those machines. (Keep in mind the huge competition with the Z80, used in competing computers like the Spectrum.) The 6502 processor and its variants are well documented and easy to emulate, and there's a vast library of software. The next generation of 16 bit computers were an order of magnitude more complex: the Amiga, in particular, had several co-processors, which makes emulation and hardware projects correspondingly more complex. (There's no point even mentioning the PC, which was a nondescript business box.) In any case, there's a huge Amiga scene...
- rbanffy 3y ago
  > The 6502 processor and its variants are well documented and easy to emulate, and there's a vast library of software. And newer games developed for those platforms employing the tricks we have learned in decades after these machines were retired are quite impressive. Much like the 8088mph demo, people today do things these machines were never supposed to be able to do. The Plus4, BTW, would have been massively successful if it had back then the games it has today.
  - fractallyte 3y ago
    I'm still dreaming of a 6502 (or Z80) smartphone, with 8 bit apps that hit the metal, and an OS that's actually 100% understandable (for a developer)...
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      The Apple II (running DOS 3.3) is the last computer I can claim I completely understood.
harel 3y ago
All those models you ask "why not" of are exhibiting the same surge in nostalgia. I have 2 Spectrums and 2 Amigas next to me right now. It's a general surge in nostalgia to all of the computers from that era I suppose. I personally don't discriminate - I admire their capabilities and limitations all the same. I also suppose that for me, personally, they represent my childhood in the early 80s and into the 90s. I started with a VIC20 and moved to Amiga before giving up quite late in the 90s and gone the PC route. That's the "emotional" angle if you ever needed one.
- Exuma 3y ago
  What was it like before PC? The very first computer I ever touched had windows 3.1 and also I think was 286DX. Then 386 And some time later I found an Atari at a garage sale. I’ve always how much I missed out getting in when I did. Kind of like kids these days in frontend frameworks not ever know ie conditional comment tags or csszengarden
  - bitwize 3y ago
    Before the PC dominated there were lots of idiosyncratic machines with idiosyncratic architectures. Most of them were useless to the average consumer. Computers were used by businesses and scientists; and unless they had a small business, the average person was unlikely to want or need one. The uses that did take off involved children: education and gaming. Many "home computers" were basically video game consoles in terms of hardware, but they had keyboards and could be programmed. People sold commercial games for these systems, but they were also the first systems for which kids got interested in making their own games. You had to have an interest in programming the machine to a very low level in order to make a game; there was no Unreal or Unity to hold your hand. But the machines were simple and well documented; every bit of hardware (graphics chip, sound chip, joystick port, etc.) had info on how to program it in the manuals that came with the machine (at least for common machines like Commodore ones). Some of them, most notably the Apple II (US) and BBC Micro (UK), were purchased by schools for educational purposes. Special "edutainment" programs would be run on them to teach kids things like math, reading, and geography. The most famous such program was The Oregon Trail, which simulated an expedition across the western United States before it was settled, but there were hundreds of such programs across the many different computing platforms. In the 8-bit PC era, because it was unclear what people would use PCs for, it was also expected that they would come up with their own applications and to that end almost all of them came with the programming language BASIC, allowing the user to get started with programming right away. This was considered something of a high point in computing history, because it gave the notion that computers were there to be programmed and to do exactly what their users wanted. As 16-bit and 32-bit machines took their place, programming tools became optional add-ons and it took more and more time and cost to write useful programs for them. Some of the non-IBM-compatible 16-bit machines, like the Atari ST and Amiga, retained some of the "game console" architecture and had amazing graphics and sound capability. With the right tools you could do some really impressive things with them. PCs didn't become common consumer products until the mid-late 90s when the biggest consumer killer app emerged for them: the internet. This corresponded nicely with the release of Windows 95, the first end-user Windows OS that could run full-fat 32-bit applications. Now that they had a primary purpose for the average consumer, interest in marketing them as programmable devices waned over the next three decades to the present day, when the idea is to prevent the end user from running any but preapproved software, especially on the PC's replacement as internet gateway: smartphones. We had much more fun with our janky little machines back then, even if we couldn't do nearly as much. We've reclaimed a little of that with open source operating systems like Linux and BSD, but it's still not quite the same.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
> I don't exactly get the recent surge in nostalgia for the Commodore computers in particular. > why not 8086/PC, Macintosh, Amiga Well the Amiga is a Commodore computer (Commodore bought Amiga very early on and the Amiga was only ever released by Commodore) and it's got a gigantic retro community too.
- bitwize 3y ago
  There were a few Amigas manufactured by Escom when they had the rights to the brand in the mid-90s.
mellosouls 3y ago
The others regularly pop up here, nothing wrong with highlighting a lesser known one for a change.
vidarh 3y ago
It's not so much a resurgence, as that new people regularly rediscover the still very strong community. With respect to why not the others, you'll find similar communities for the others, but maybe early PC's less so because PC's are still around and still recognisable enough. But Commodore was massively dominant in terms of sales, and so it's natural that their machines (including the Amiga) gets disproportionately much interest. More people have nostalgic memories of Commodore. And not just the machines either, but as a brand. It was once one of the most recognisable electronics brands in the world. Even many people old enough who never owned a Commodore machine or cared about them remember their logo and name from e.g. their sponsorship of FC Bayern München (soccer).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kalleboo 3y ago
The Commodore 64 was the best-selling single model of computer of all time, so lots and lots of people had them and are now nostalgic for it. There is still lots of nostalgia for other machines! On the Macintosh end of things, there are people making keyboard/mouse adapters, floppy drive emulators, SCSI hard disk/network card emulators, replacement RAM and re-flashable, customizable ROMs, reproduction cases and even people completely reverse-engineering and remanufacturing the motherboards of old Macs to let people fix their old machines where old capacitors or batteries have leaked and corroded the PCB traces. https://www.tinkerboy.xyz/product/tinkerboy-adb-to-usb-keyboard-mouse-converter/ https://www.tinkerboy.xyz/product/tinkerboy-adb-to-usb-keybo... https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/ https://github.com/BlueSCSI/BlueSCSI-v2 https://github.com/BlueSCSI/BlueSCSI-v2 https://en.infinityproducts.co.jp/product-page/smc-4mb-memory-card-diy-kit https://en.infinityproducts.co.jp/product-page/smc-4mb-memor... https://shop.bigmessowires.com/products/mac-rom-inator-ii-atom-simm https://shop.bigmessowires.com/products/mac-rom-inator-ii-at... https://maceffects.com/products/maceffects-clear-case-for-macintosh-se-se-30 https://maceffects.com/products/maceffects-clear-case-for-ma... https://github.com/max234252/MacPlus-Reloaded https://github.com/max234252/MacPlus-Reloaded

Tuna-Fish 3y ago

The 8-bit generation was special because it's possible for a reasonably involved (as in, someone with a job and a family, can't spend 16 hours a day on this) person to learn and understand literally everything about the machines. It will take a while, but it's an achievable goal as a hobby. The C64 was the most common 8-bit computer, and a lot of people in the age group where they suddenly have a lot of free time and money have fond memories about it. Then it's easy to get lost finding out that that's how that actually worked. The later machines, or even just IBM PC, which predates it, are much more complex systems and you are less likely to fully understand them.

GuB-42 3y ago

The Amigas are (mostly) Commodore computers. Maybe you meant Atari, its main competitor. And speaking of music, the Atari ST was also very popular not because of its sound, but because it had built-in, very low latency MIDI. I think they are so popular because so many kids grew up with C64s, it was both a game console and a "serious" computer. So now, they attract both retro-gamers and programmers who learned on these machines. PCs and Macs were mostly work computers, more expensive and mostly for grownups, so less nostalgia, the ZX Spectrum wasn't great IIRC. The Amiga 500 and Atari ST still have a lot of followers, maybe that they had to share the space made them individually less popular than the C64.

rbanffy 3y ago

The PET had an IEEE-488 bus and these more rounded PETs are gorgeous machines. Sadly, these are not abundant at all - they were far from a commercial success. As why they are attractive over x86 and Macs, is because they are different. Much like the Lisa, they represent the road not taken, or, at least, a past long lost.

amelius 3y ago

Perhaps it's because now these people can finally afford the stuff that they could only dream of when they were kids?

Clubber 3y ago
Commodores were pretty affordable, that was why they were so popular. A PC would cost anywhere from $2000-5000 in the mid 80s, but a C64 was $200, IIRC. Vic20s were even cheaper.

fractallyte 3y ago

This was the era of 8 bit computers, and the 6502-based (actually 6510) C64 was the biggest selling model, so there's a lot of affection for those machines. (Keep in mind the huge competition with the Z80, used in competing computers like the Spectrum.) The 6502 processor and its variants are well documented and easy to emulate, and there's a vast library of software. The next generation of 16 bit computers were an order of magnitude more complex: the Amiga, in particular, had several co-processors, which makes emulation and hardware projects correspondingly more complex. (There's no point even mentioning the PC, which was a nondescript business box.) In any case, there's a huge Amiga scene...

rbanffy 3y ago
> The 6502 processor and its variants are well documented and easy to emulate, and there's a vast library of software. And newer games developed for those platforms employing the tricks we have learned in decades after these machines were retired are quite impressive. Much like the 8088mph demo, people today do things these machines were never supposed to be able to do. The Plus4, BTW, would have been massively successful if it had back then the games it has today.
- fractallyte 3y ago
  I'm still dreaming of a 6502 (or Z80) smartphone, with 8 bit apps that hit the metal, and an OS that's actually 100% understandable (for a developer)...
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    The Apple II (running DOS 3.3) is the last computer I can claim I completely understood.

harel 3y ago

All those models you ask "why not" of are exhibiting the same surge in nostalgia. I have 2 Spectrums and 2 Amigas next to me right now. It's a general surge in nostalgia to all of the computers from that era I suppose. I personally don't discriminate - I admire their capabilities and limitations all the same. I also suppose that for me, personally, they represent my childhood in the early 80s and into the 90s. I started with a VIC20 and moved to Amiga before giving up quite late in the 90s and gone the PC route. That's the "emotional" angle if you ever needed one.

Exuma 3y ago
What was it like before PC? The very first computer I ever touched had windows 3.1 and also I think was 286DX. Then 386 And some time later I found an Atari at a garage sale. I’ve always how much I missed out getting in when I did. Kind of like kids these days in frontend frameworks not ever know ie conditional comment tags or csszengarden
- bitwize 3y ago
  Before the PC dominated there were lots of idiosyncratic machines with idiosyncratic architectures. Most of them were useless to the average consumer. Computers were used by businesses and scientists; and unless they had a small business, the average person was unlikely to want or need one. The uses that did take off involved children: education and gaming. Many "home computers" were basically video game consoles in terms of hardware, but they had keyboards and could be programmed. People sold commercial games for these systems, but they were also the first systems for which kids got interested in making their own games. You had to have an interest in programming the machine to a very low level in order to make a game; there was no Unreal or Unity to hold your hand. But the machines were simple and well documented; every bit of hardware (graphics chip, sound chip, joystick port, etc.) had info on how to program it in the manuals that came with the machine (at least for common machines like Commodore ones). Some of them, most notably the Apple II (US) and BBC Micro (UK), were purchased by schools for educational purposes. Special "edutainment" programs would be run on them to teach kids things like math, reading, and geography. The most famous such program was The Oregon Trail, which simulated an expedition across the western United States before it was settled, but there were hundreds of such programs across the many different computing platforms. In the 8-bit PC era, because it was unclear what people would use PCs for, it was also expected that they would come up with their own applications and to that end almost all of them came with the programming language BASIC, allowing the user to get started with programming right away. This was considered something of a high point in computing history, because it gave the notion that computers were there to be programmed and to do exactly what their users wanted. As 16-bit and 32-bit machines took their place, programming tools became optional add-ons and it took more and more time and cost to write useful programs for them. Some of the non-IBM-compatible 16-bit machines, like the Atari ST and Amiga, retained some of the "game console" architecture and had amazing graphics and sound capability. With the right tools you could do some really impressive things with them. PCs didn't become common consumer products until the mid-late 90s when the biggest consumer killer app emerged for them: the internet. This corresponded nicely with the release of Windows 95, the first end-user Windows OS that could run full-fat 32-bit applications. Now that they had a primary purpose for the average consumer, interest in marketing them as programmable devices waned over the next three decades to the present day, when the idea is to prevent the end user from running any but preapproved software, especially on the PC's replacement as internet gateway: smartphones. We had much more fun with our janky little machines back then, even if we couldn't do nearly as much. We've reclaimed a little of that with open source operating systems like Linux and BSD, but it's still not quite the same.

TacticalCoder 3y ago

> I don't exactly get the recent surge in nostalgia for the Commodore computers in particular. > why not 8086/PC, Macintosh, Amiga Well the Amiga is a Commodore computer (Commodore bought Amiga very early on and the Amiga was only ever released by Commodore) and it's got a gigantic retro community too.

bitwize 3y ago
There were a few Amigas manufactured by Escom when they had the rights to the brand in the mid-90s.

mellosouls 3y ago

The others regularly pop up here, nothing wrong with highlighting a lesser known one for a change.

vidarh 3y ago

It's not so much a resurgence, as that new people regularly rediscover the still very strong community. With respect to why not the others, you'll find similar communities for the others, but maybe early PC's less so because PC's are still around and still recognisable enough. But Commodore was massively dominant in terms of sales, and so it's natural that their machines (including the Amiga) gets disproportionately much interest. More people have nostalgic memories of Commodore. And not just the machines either, but as a brand. It was once one of the most recognisable electronics brands in the world. Even many people old enough who never owned a Commodore machine or cared about them remember their logo and name from e.g. their sponsorship of FC Bayern München (soccer).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kalleboo 3y ago

The Commodore 64 was the best-selling single model of computer of all time, so lots and lots of people had them and are now nostalgic for it. There is still lots of nostalgia for other machines! On the Macintosh end of things, there are people making keyboard/mouse adapters, floppy drive emulators, SCSI hard disk/network card emulators, replacement RAM and re-flashable, customizable ROMs, reproduction cases and even people completely reverse-engineering and remanufacturing the motherboards of old Macs to let people fix their old machines where old capacitors or batteries have leaked and corroded the PCB traces. https://www.tinkerboy.xyz/product/tinkerboy-adb-to-usb-keyboard-mouse-converter/ https://www.tinkerboy.xyz/product/tinkerboy-adb-to-usb-keybo... https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/ https://github.com/BlueSCSI/BlueSCSI-v2 https://github.com/BlueSCSI/BlueSCSI-v2 https://en.infinityproducts.co.jp/product-page/smc-4mb-memory-card-diy-kit https://en.infinityproducts.co.jp/product-page/smc-4mb-memor... https://shop.bigmessowires.com/products/mac-rom-inator-ii-atom-simm https://shop.bigmessowires.com/products/mac-rom-inator-ii-at... https://maceffects.com/products/maceffects-clear-case-for-macintosh-se-se-30 https://maceffects.com/products/maceffects-clear-case-for-ma... https://github.com/max234252/MacPlus-Reloaded https://github.com/max234252/MacPlus-Reloaded