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I like this idea because it’s incredibly American. If we’re going to go full on free-market, we might as well live up to those principles. There is precedent f

I like this idea because it’s incredibly American. If we’re going to go full on free-market, we might as well live up to those principles. There is precedent for this idea, in 1948 the Supreme Court forced the film studios to give up exhibition (theaters) with the paramount decision. This enabled the rise of independent film, and audiences benefited from more choice. If you try to do this legislatively the Apples and the NVidias of the world will hire an army of lobbyists and storm Capitol Hill. But it might be to their benefit. After the breakup of Standard Oil, John Rockefeller became richer because competition forced out the less efficient portions of his old business from the market. It’s true that it could temporarily degrade the user experience of some people, but that’s a small price to pay. People who give up liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

scarface_74 3y ago
There are so many flawed analogies here it’s hard to know where to start. How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration of software and hardware between my Mac, iPads Watch, Airpods and phone? Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. No consumer is asking for this. So you want to degrade the user experience for “freedom” by giving the government more power???
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. Plainly not true. Some are better hardware/quality wise. All are better when it comes to freedom with what you can actually do with the device.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Is there one Windows laptop that can get 14 hours of battery life, fanless and that runs at a decent speed?
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      There are windows laptops that advertise over 20 hours of battery life with top current or last gen Intel and AMD processors.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        Care to name a laptop with the performance, size, weight, and battery life running x86 chips like the MacBook Air - and that won’t fry my nuts when on my lap or sound like a 747 from the fans running?
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        The Dell XPS 13 inch series was a great pick, and then there was an Asus series, I think the 'B' series, that weighed less than a macbook air, had much longer battery, and had far more ports. Also could be charged with only a usb c cable, no special adapter. Why would you doubt there are better options? The whole thing about the PC market is it has a much greater diversity of choices. It's silly to think Apple simply makes the best machine for a price point out of all available PC and Mac models.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        All USB C MacBooks have always been able to be charged via USV C or MagSafe for the ones that come with it. Was this the best you could do - worse performance, loud, poor battery life, poor display, poor audio? The very first review I found https://www.theverge.com/23674395/dell-xps-13-2022-intel-review https://www.theverge.com/23674395/dell-xps-13-2022-intel-rev... I’ll do the bottom line up front In the past, the XPS 13 was a hands-down contender for the best laptop on the market. But the Apple-silicon MacBook has since barrelled onto the scene, and it wipes the floor with most of the ultraportable Windows laptops that cross my desk on a daily basis. This XPS is no exception. Compared to the M2 MacBook Air, battery life is worse. Benchmark performance is worse. Screen, while good, is worse. Port selection is worse. And the rest. So anyway, I’ve been using the regular XPS 13 for the past few weeks. And, like, it’s fine. It’s just fine. It’s worse than its 2020 predecessor in some ways and better in others. It continues to bring some of the best build quality in the 13-inch space. The display is fine. The speakers are fine. There’s an off-purple color option! It’s certainly one of the best Windows laptops you can buy, and it also doesn’t come close to the performance or efficiency that today’s MacBooks can provide, which says a thing or two about the current state of the Windows laptop space. And the resolution is worse Specifically, you’re limited to a 1920 x 1200 60Hz IPS panel A similarly configured M2 MacBook Air is currently selling for $1,699, which makes Dell’s pricing attractive — though the performance benefits Apple delivers for that extra price aren’t insignificant, as we’ll soon discuss. One thing to note about the XPS 13, though — the fans get going very easily. They were audible with a couple Chrome tabs and Slack open Speaking of things that have improved: battery life. I averaged six hours and 42 minutes of consistent use around
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  >Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. No consumer is asking for this. "Not being Apple" was a very major part of my choice to buy a Windows laptop. Some other consumers share my opinion of Apple. >So you want to degrade the user experience for “freedom” by giving the government more power??? Having open standards is not "giving the government more power".
- coldtea 3y ago
  >How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration of software and hardware between my Mac, iPads Watch, Airpods and phone? Perhaps that's the wrong question. Perhaps "making my everyday experience better as a customer" is not the be all end all.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    So now you want the government to pass laws that make consumer experience worse? Maybe that will cause the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” to happen.
    - idiotsecant 3y ago
      Mandating open standards is not the same thing as 'making consumer experience worse'.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        So everything that any company designs should go through a committee before it’s introduced and become parts of a standards body?
        coldtea 3y ago
        Sure, why not? Except for some religous allegiance to "free market" (as it hasn't produced disasters aplenty itself) or some knee jerk rection to the notion of a committee?
        Propelloni 3y ago
        That is your benevolent interpretation of the post you are answering to? Or is this just your hyperbolic example of the black-and-white fallacy to show how not to conduct a civil discussion? I know, the point you are trying to make is buried beneath somewhere but it is really hard to make out. All I see is pettiness. So sad.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- webmobdev 3y ago
  > * How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration of software and hardware between my Mac, iPads Watch, Airpods and phone?* "Open Standards" - There is no reason that your Mac or iPhone should only work with other Apple products through closed and proprietary standards. With adoption of open standards, all devices (irrespective of their manufacturer) can offer a decent integrated experience.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Yeah and that works out well with Android and Bluetooth.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      Isn't that literally the point. Crappy drivers and no hardware documentation?
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      Yeah, it did. Your point?
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        You can seamlessly share standard Bluetooth devices between 5 devices just by pairing it to one like I do with my iPhone, iPad, Watch, MacBook and AppleTV and it automatically switches?
        tonoto 3y ago
        "seamlessly". I've had trouble between just an Apple-branded mobile phone and their branded all-in-one computer when it comes to the Apple-branded wireless headphones. The ping-pong between active sound channel/device had me disable the "seamless" handover, as it were a subpar experience for me. Better to manually decide which device that actively "owns" the channel.
        smoldesu 3y ago
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration Perhaps you should ask the inverse - how good would your experience with Apple be, if there were no open standards paid for by someone else, and fought for by someone else? You wouldn't even have GPS and navigation. You would not have HTML or the open web. Before we fought for video codecs compatibility you could not even get a video that was recorded on a Device A to reliably play on Device B. The phone would be almost useless. The people that argue this, they only take from the commons and never give back.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    I think you should look up the history of h.264 and see who is in the patent pool…
    - vetinari 3y ago
      You should go even further and check the video playback experience on apple machines, when divx was all the rage and apple had just a sorrenson video 3. And yeah, full-screen playback was a qt pro feature, paid extra.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        Or you can go even further back when Microsoft was caught stealing QT code because they couldn’t do video competently themselves and Apple could (circa 1995). And every Mac geek knew how to work around it either via free third party software or just using AppleScript https://osxdaily.com/2007/01/30/play-quicktime-movies-full-screen-without-quicktime-pro/ https://osxdaily.com/2007/01/30/play-quicktime-movies-full-s...
        vetinari 3y ago
        Nah, they didn't, when Jobs said someone has stealing his code, he meant that someone did something similar. Like "stealing his ideas". Also in 90's, there was no applescript support on macos classic qt, and third party players like vlc didn't exist yet either (not that they ever ran on classic). I know, I was mac user back then and I remember.
- fooker 3y ago
  What if by letting this anti-competitive monopolies survive, we are getting future better ‘everyday experiences’ killed in their cribs? Large companies routinely buy out startups, kill their products, and absorbs the teams.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Well, we have three examples of well resourced companies that weren’t able to compete in the smart phone market - Microsoft, Amazon and Facebook. You really think a little startup is going to be able to do hardware at scale? Was it big bad Apple that killed all of those phones or maybe it is just consumers made a choice using their own free will? You really think that the startups didn’t have “being bought by a big company” as an exit strategy in the first place? Out of all the companies that YC has funded (1000+) only six have ever gone public. Were all the little companies that Apple acquired to integrate into their phone in an alternate universe going to create a phone?
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  How in the world is your everyday experience "better" today as a result of Apple's vertical integration? Spoiler: it isn't.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Really? I have a silent fanless MacBook Air running an Apple designed chip, with an Apple written OS where I can move my cursor between it and my iPad sitting right besides it and my keyboard and mouse can control both seanlessly. It also gets 16 hours of battery life. And then I have a Windows laptop with piss poor battery life, sounds like a 747 at idle and runs hot enough that if I actually put it in my lap , it would endure that I don’t ever have any little Scarface’s On the phone side, the day that Apple releases a new version of iOS, it’s immediately available worldwide for every iPhone that was introduced in the last four years. Is the same true for Android devices?
    - spookie 3y ago
      Colleagues of mine aren't able to use their Macs for work since they're unable to target the hardware we're working on. Perhaps with Asahi Linux they could. But even then, support isn't great.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      [dead]
    - thomastjeffery 3y ago
      Apple would still be able to do all of that. The main reason Windows sucks is that Windows sucks. No specialized hardware can change that. The second reason is that hardware manufacturers make shitty drivers; because it shouldn't be their job in the first place. And why is OS X so good? They scrapped the original MacOS, and started fresh with a fork of BSD. None of that has anything to do with monopolizing hardware. It's also absurd to compare Apple's limited selection of exclusively flagship devices against every existing Android device. Compare them with their direct competition, and your point is moot. If Apple's hardware division was broken off into a separate company, Apple's software division would be able to do everything they do today as a customer of that hardware company. The only difference would be that everyone else could too.

scarface_74 3y ago

There are so many flawed analogies here it’s hard to know where to start. How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration of software and hardware between my Mac, iPads Watch, Airpods and phone? Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. No consumer is asking for this. So you want to degrade the user experience for “freedom” by giving the government more power???

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. Plainly not true. Some are better hardware/quality wise. All are better when it comes to freedom with what you can actually do with the device.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Is there one Windows laptop that can get 14 hours of battery life, fanless and that runs at a decent speed?
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    There are windows laptops that advertise over 20 hours of battery life with top current or last gen Intel and AMD processors.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Care to name a laptop with the performance, size, weight, and battery life running x86 chips like the MacBook Air - and that won’t fry my nuts when on my lap or sound like a 747 from the fans running?
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        The Dell XPS 13 inch series was a great pick, and then there was an Asus series, I think the 'B' series, that weighed less than a macbook air, had much longer battery, and had far more ports. Also could be charged with only a usb c cable, no special adapter. Why would you doubt there are better options? The whole thing about the PC market is it has a much greater diversity of choices. It's silly to think Apple simply makes the best machine for a price point out of all available PC and Mac models.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        All USB C MacBooks have always been able to be charged via USV C or MagSafe for the ones that come with it. Was this the best you could do - worse performance, loud, poor battery life, poor display, poor audio? The very first review I found https://www.theverge.com/23674395/dell-xps-13-2022-intel-review https://www.theverge.com/23674395/dell-xps-13-2022-intel-rev... I’ll do the bottom line up front In the past, the XPS 13 was a hands-down contender for the best laptop on the market. But the Apple-silicon MacBook has since barrelled onto the scene, and it wipes the floor with most of the ultraportable Windows laptops that cross my desk on a daily basis. This XPS is no exception. Compared to the M2 MacBook Air, battery life is worse. Benchmark performance is worse. Screen, while good, is worse. Port selection is worse. And the rest. So anyway, I’ve been using the regular XPS 13 for the past few weeks. And, like, it’s fine. It’s just fine. It’s worse than its 2020 predecessor in some ways and better in others. It continues to bring some of the best build quality in the 13-inch space. The display is fine. The speakers are fine. There’s an off-purple color option! It’s certainly one of the best Windows laptops you can buy, and it also doesn’t come close to the performance or efficiency that today’s MacBooks can provide, which says a thing or two about the current state of the Windows laptop space. And the resolution is worse Specifically, you’re limited to a 1920 x 1200 60Hz IPS panel A similarly configured M2 MacBook Air is currently selling for $1,699, which makes Dell’s pricing attractive — though the performance benefits Apple delivers for that extra price aren’t insignificant, as we’ll soon discuss. One thing to note about the XPS 13, though — the fans get going very easily. They were audible with a couple Chrome tabs and Slack open Speaking of things that have improved: battery life. I averaged six hours and 42 minutes of consistent use around
brokenmachine 3y ago
>Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. No consumer is asking for this. "Not being Apple" was a very major part of my choice to buy a Windows laptop. Some other consumers share my opinion of Apple. >So you want to degrade the user experience for “freedom” by giving the government more power??? Having open standards is not "giving the government more power".
coldtea 3y ago
>How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration of software and hardware between my Mac, iPads Watch, Airpods and phone? Perhaps that's the wrong question. Perhaps "making my everyday experience better as a customer" is not the be all end all.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  So now you want the government to pass laws that make consumer experience worse? Maybe that will cause the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” to happen.
  - idiotsecant 3y ago
    Mandating open standards is not the same thing as 'making consumer experience worse'.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      So everything that any company designs should go through a committee before it’s introduced and become parts of a standards body?
      - coldtea 3y ago
        Sure, why not? Except for some religous allegiance to "free market" (as it hasn't produced disasters aplenty itself) or some knee jerk rection to the notion of a committee?
      - Propelloni 3y ago
        That is your benevolent interpretation of the post you are answering to? Or is this just your hyperbolic example of the black-and-white fallacy to show how not to conduct a civil discussion? I know, the point you are trying to make is buried beneath somewhere but it is really hard to make out. All I see is pettiness. So sad.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
webmobdev 3y ago
> * How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration of software and hardware between my Mac, iPads Watch, Airpods and phone?* "Open Standards" - There is no reason that your Mac or iPhone should only work with other Apple products through closed and proprietary standards. With adoption of open standards, all devices (irrespective of their manufacturer) can offer a decent integrated experience.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Yeah and that works out well with Android and Bluetooth.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    Isn't that literally the point. Crappy drivers and no hardware documentation?
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Yeah, it did. Your point?
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      You can seamlessly share standard Bluetooth devices between 5 devices just by pairing it to one like I do with my iPhone, iPad, Watch, MacBook and AppleTV and it automatically switches?
      - tonoto 3y ago
        "seamlessly". I've had trouble between just an Apple-branded mobile phone and their branded all-in-one computer when it comes to the Apple-branded wireless headphones. The ping-pong between active sound channel/device had me disable the "seamless" handover, as it were a subpar experience for me. Better to manually decide which device that actively "owns" the channel.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration Perhaps you should ask the inverse - how good would your experience with Apple be, if there were no open standards paid for by someone else, and fought for by someone else? You wouldn't even have GPS and navigation. You would not have HTML or the open web. Before we fought for video codecs compatibility you could not even get a video that was recorded on a Device A to reliably play on Device B. The phone would be almost useless. The people that argue this, they only take from the commons and never give back.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  I think you should look up the history of h.264 and see who is in the patent pool…
  - vetinari 3y ago
    You should go even further and check the video playback experience on apple machines, when divx was all the rage and apple had just a sorrenson video 3. And yeah, full-screen playback was a qt pro feature, paid extra.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Or you can go even further back when Microsoft was caught stealing QT code because they couldn’t do video competently themselves and Apple could (circa 1995). And every Mac geek knew how to work around it either via free third party software or just using AppleScript https://osxdaily.com/2007/01/30/play-quicktime-movies-full-screen-without-quicktime-pro/ https://osxdaily.com/2007/01/30/play-quicktime-movies-full-s...
      - vetinari 3y ago
        Nah, they didn't, when Jobs said someone has stealing his code, he meant that someone did something similar. Like "stealing his ideas". Also in 90's, there was no applescript support on macos classic qt, and third party players like vlc didn't exist yet either (not that they ever ran on classic). I know, I was mac user back then and I remember.
fooker 3y ago
What if by letting this anti-competitive monopolies survive, we are getting future better ‘everyday experiences’ killed in their cribs? Large companies routinely buy out startups, kill their products, and absorbs the teams.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Well, we have three examples of well resourced companies that weren’t able to compete in the smart phone market - Microsoft, Amazon and Facebook. You really think a little startup is going to be able to do hardware at scale? Was it big bad Apple that killed all of those phones or maybe it is just consumers made a choice using their own free will? You really think that the startups didn’t have “being bought by a big company” as an exit strategy in the first place? Out of all the companies that YC has funded (1000+) only six have ever gone public. Were all the little companies that Apple acquired to integrate into their phone in an alternate universe going to create a phone?
thomastjeffery 3y ago
How in the world is your everyday experience "better" today as a result of Apple's vertical integration? Spoiler: it isn't.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Really? I have a silent fanless MacBook Air running an Apple designed chip, with an Apple written OS where I can move my cursor between it and my iPad sitting right besides it and my keyboard and mouse can control both seanlessly. It also gets 16 hours of battery life. And then I have a Windows laptop with piss poor battery life, sounds like a 747 at idle and runs hot enough that if I actually put it in my lap , it would endure that I don’t ever have any little Scarface’s On the phone side, the day that Apple releases a new version of iOS, it’s immediately available worldwide for every iPhone that was introduced in the last four years. Is the same true for Android devices?
  - spookie 3y ago
    Colleagues of mine aren't able to use their Macs for work since they're unable to target the hardware we're working on. Perhaps with Asahi Linux they could. But even then, support isn't great.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    [dead]
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    Apple would still be able to do all of that. The main reason Windows sucks is that Windows sucks. No specialized hardware can change that. The second reason is that hardware manufacturers make shitty drivers; because it shouldn't be their job in the first place. And why is OS X so good? They scrapped the original MacOS, and started fresh with a fork of BSD. None of that has anything to do with monopolizing hardware. It's also absurd to compare Apple's limited selection of exclusively flagship devices against every existing Android device. Compare them with their direct competition, and your point is moot. If Apple's hardware division was broken off into a separate company, Apple's software division would be able to do everything they do today as a customer of that hardware company. The only difference would be that everyone else could too.