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I have been liking Mozilla for a very long time, and even has thoughts of applying to work there. Now I read about that woman and I’m not so sure any longer. No

I have been liking Mozilla for a very long time, and even has thoughts of applying to work there. Now I read about that woman and I’m not so sure any longer. Now I see it all as some kind of politics, when you say so beautiful and shiny words, but in truth your actions are the opposite to all that.

kaba0 3y ago
Do you approve, or even know about your current company’s CEO?
- insanitybit 3y ago
  "Other person is bad" is not an excuse, especially when your entire company's position is "we're not those guys".
  - kaba0 3y ago
    My point was - the vast majority of people don’t care or even know about their CEO. Why is it suddenly a problem with Mozilla?
    - raincole 3y ago
      OR bad leadership is a problem with a lot of companies, but this thread just happens to be about Mozilla?
    - insanitybit 3y ago
      That's a bad point for a lot of reasons. 1. It's irrelevant, as I pointed out. 2. It's a false premise. We talk about bad CEOs all the time, especially egregiously bad ones. I saw only just the other day comments on the Yahoo CEO.
    - omginternets 3y ago
      That doesn’t track with my experience at all, so it seems like the kind of place where hard numbers would help you make your point.
- meiraleal 3y ago
  Firefox users are known for defending it as a moral alternative to Chrome even though currently it is so behind in feature and performance. It makes no sense to defend Firefox if it is just a cash cow for some disconnected-from-reality leeches.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    > it is so behind in feature and performance I would like to see a source on that. Even if it were actually worse of from a technical standpoint, do you not see the huge value of an independent implementation of the most crucial platform of humanity? Should it really be controlled by a single giga-corp?
    - meiraleal 3y ago
      I saw the huge value of it when it started and for a long time, now this is just an excuse for the privileged ones milking Mozilla to continue doing so. The market being controlled by a single giga-corp or shared with a paid fake competitor I would prefer the giga-corp so it becomes more obvious that we need to fund a real alternative, not waste money on what Mozilla became.
  - ako 3y ago
    I use Firefox everywhere, MacOS, windows, iPad iOS. Not sure what features I am missing out on. I don’t use any plugins, mostly happy with performance, no complaints about current feature set regarding tabs. I really don’t have a wishlist of things I’d like to see improved. Faster and less resource consumption would be nice, but not super urgent. What am I missing?
    - elcritch 3y ago
      I find that Firefox consistently uses less memory. It might be a bit slower on some things, but the slimmer better memory usage is nice.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      You actually use safari on iPad and iOS, as it only has browser skins with a safari widget. (JIT compilation is a more restricted permission not given to AppStore apps)
- devnullbrain 3y ago
  What a strange reply. Most people on this site do know their CEO and are able and willing to leave jobs when they disagree with their direction. I have done it myself.
- itronitron 3y ago
  I think a better question would be whether I approve or even know about Mozilla's CEO. I don't know a thing about Mozilla's current CEO, and I don't give a shit about them either. I still use Firefox and haven't used Chrome in many years.
cmcaleer 3y ago
Man, I want to be able to work for the Mozilla of yore too. But it simply just isn't what it was, and over the years its true purpose has become more and more clear. After their alarming treatment of security researchers documented here [0], I've been doubting whether to continue using Firefox at all. For what it's worth I still do, because I think not using Chrome is a fight worth fighting and that alarming behaviour was just from the VPN team, but if any similar behaviour happens with the Firefox team I'm just going to drop it altogether. I want Mozilla and Firefox to succeed. I want diversity in browser engines. I want to see the culture change happen. It still can! But the debt created with each passing year and each percentage point of market share lost makes it harder and harder. [0]: https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2023/08/03/1 https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2023/08/03/1
- walteweiss 3y ago
  I went all-in a couple of years ago, switching almost all of my computers from macOS to Linux (Fedora Workstation and Arch), and where I still have macOS, I use Firefox, not even having Chrome installed. Now I doubt it's worth it. But what else do we have these days? Safari? (Limited to just one OS.) I remember these old-days of Linux with other browsers pre-installed. Like Konqueror (I see it's still in development), or others even more niche ones. Cannot even remember their names.
  - mgaunard 3y ago
    Chrome was originally based on Apple WebKit (before they forked it), which was originally based on KHTML, Konqueror's engine.
  - skepticATX 3y ago
    It's still worth it because you really don't even have to think about it. I don't use any Google products/services except when I need to at work. Firefox is perfectly fine for now; I agree that Mozilla's future is concerning but there is absolutely no downside to sticking with Firefox for now. It's too bad that Mozilla doesn't push for more adoption; the vast majority of users would never know the difference between Firefox and Chrome once they're browsing. It's not like it's an inferior product.

kaba0 3y ago

Do you approve, or even know about your current company’s CEO?

insanitybit 3y ago
"Other person is bad" is not an excuse, especially when your entire company's position is "we're not those guys".
- kaba0 3y ago
  My point was - the vast majority of people don’t care or even know about their CEO. Why is it suddenly a problem with Mozilla?
  - raincole 3y ago
    OR bad leadership is a problem with a lot of companies, but this thread just happens to be about Mozilla?
  - insanitybit 3y ago
    That's a bad point for a lot of reasons. 1. It's irrelevant, as I pointed out. 2. It's a false premise. We talk about bad CEOs all the time, especially egregiously bad ones. I saw only just the other day comments on the Yahoo CEO.
  - omginternets 3y ago
    That doesn’t track with my experience at all, so it seems like the kind of place where hard numbers would help you make your point.
meiraleal 3y ago
Firefox users are known for defending it as a moral alternative to Chrome even though currently it is so behind in feature and performance. It makes no sense to defend Firefox if it is just a cash cow for some disconnected-from-reality leeches.
- kaba0 3y ago
  > it is so behind in feature and performance I would like to see a source on that. Even if it were actually worse of from a technical standpoint, do you not see the huge value of an independent implementation of the most crucial platform of humanity? Should it really be controlled by a single giga-corp?
  - meiraleal 3y ago
    I saw the huge value of it when it started and for a long time, now this is just an excuse for the privileged ones milking Mozilla to continue doing so. The market being controlled by a single giga-corp or shared with a paid fake competitor I would prefer the giga-corp so it becomes more obvious that we need to fund a real alternative, not waste money on what Mozilla became.
- ako 3y ago
  I use Firefox everywhere, MacOS, windows, iPad iOS. Not sure what features I am missing out on. I don’t use any plugins, mostly happy with performance, no complaints about current feature set regarding tabs. I really don’t have a wishlist of things I’d like to see improved. Faster and less resource consumption would be nice, but not super urgent. What am I missing?
  - elcritch 3y ago
    I find that Firefox consistently uses less memory. It might be a bit slower on some things, but the slimmer better memory usage is nice.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    You actually use safari on iPad and iOS, as it only has browser skins with a safari widget. (JIT compilation is a more restricted permission not given to AppStore apps)
devnullbrain 3y ago
What a strange reply. Most people on this site do know their CEO and are able and willing to leave jobs when they disagree with their direction. I have done it myself.
itronitron 3y ago
I think a better question would be whether I approve or even know about Mozilla's CEO. I don't know a thing about Mozilla's current CEO, and I don't give a shit about them either. I still use Firefox and haven't used Chrome in many years.

cmcaleer 3y ago

Man, I want to be able to work for the Mozilla of yore too. But it simply just isn't what it was, and over the years its true purpose has become more and more clear. After their alarming treatment of security researchers documented here [0], I've been doubting whether to continue using Firefox at all. For what it's worth I still do, because I think not using Chrome is a fight worth fighting and that alarming behaviour was just from the VPN team, but if any similar behaviour happens with the Firefox team I'm just going to drop it altogether. I want Mozilla and Firefox to succeed. I want diversity in browser engines. I want to see the culture change happen. It still can! But the debt created with each passing year and each percentage point of market share lost makes it harder and harder. [0]: https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2023/08/03/1 https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2023/08/03/1

walteweiss 3y ago
I went all-in a couple of years ago, switching almost all of my computers from macOS to Linux (Fedora Workstation and Arch), and where I still have macOS, I use Firefox, not even having Chrome installed. Now I doubt it's worth it. But what else do we have these days? Safari? (Limited to just one OS.) I remember these old-days of Linux with other browsers pre-installed. Like Konqueror (I see it's still in development), or others even more niche ones. Cannot even remember their names.
- mgaunard 3y ago
  Chrome was originally based on Apple WebKit (before they forked it), which was originally based on KHTML, Konqueror's engine.
- skepticATX 3y ago
  It's still worth it because you really don't even have to think about it. I don't use any Google products/services except when I need to at work. Firefox is perfectly fine for now; I agree that Mozilla's future is concerning but there is absolutely no downside to sticking with Firefox for now. It's too bad that Mozilla doesn't push for more adoption; the vast majority of users would never know the difference between Firefox and Chrome once they're browsing. It's not like it's an inferior product.