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I'd like to see studies done on Indian scriptures that claim humans are a lot older than the X number of thousands of years currently thought to be true. Many

I'd like to see studies done on Indian scriptures that claim humans are a lot older than the X number of thousands of years currently thought to be true. Many people across Asia reject the Aryan invasion theory as its been revised many times.

simonh 3y ago
What sort of study would you like to be done? A comparison of what the scriptures say and what the known physical evidence says wouldn’t take much study really. A problem with investigations of physical evidence of bible stories is they are often paid for by christian organisations in the US, with the explicit goal of ‘proving the bible true’. As a result we get a lot of extremely low grade, deliberately misinterpreted amateur archaeology that’s really only designed to please the sponsors, but is obvious junk. Any attempt to verify something from any form of scripture with modern adherents risks suffering from this problem of motivated reasoning.
Affric 3y ago
That means there needs to be science education. New evidence = hypothesis falsified. New hypothesis needed. That’s science working right.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dhfbshfbu4u3 3y ago
Vishnu comes in the form that is needed most and sometimes that is radiometric dating.
nkrisc 3y ago
> the X number of thousands of years currently thought to be true. Which is based on currently available archeological and genetic evidence. What do you wish to study? How ancient writings are contradicted by modern evidence?
thaumasiotes 3y ago
> Many people across Asia reject the Aryan invasion theory Really? Does anyone outside India reject it? It's true that there are many people inside India who reject it, but they are doing that for the most transparent, and stupid, ideological reasons. No one is proud of the Catholic rejection of heliocentrism today.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  Almost everyone competent outside India now rejects the "Aryan invasion theory" in terms of rejecting that term for the arrival of the Indo-European languages from the northwest. Today terms like "Aryan migration theory" are preferred. Not that this placates Hindu fundamentalists; it is the very notion that their sacred language arrived from outside (and is just about 3000 years old, not millions of years old) that they find offensive, not the term itself. There are a few European or American scholars (or "scholars") who reject the idea that the Indo-Aryan languages ultimately arrived from outside the continent. They usually tend to be converts to Indian spirituality and so their objections have a partly religious basis. Koenraad Elst is perhaps the most famous. The OP's claim that the notion is rejected across Asia is something he pulled out of his arse; India aside, linguists across the region very much uphold the scholarly consensus.
mikhailfranco 3y ago
Completely different timescale. Not relevant for this discussion.
- gus_massa 3y ago
  I agree. I wanted some numbers: From the article: > The age of the lowest fossil, a fragment of a leg bone found 7 meters deep, suggests modern humans arrived in this region between 86,000 and 68,000 years ago. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migrations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migrations > From the BMAC, the Indo-Aryans migrated into northern Syria and, possibly in multiple waves, into the Punjab (northern Pakistan and India), while the Iranians could have reached western Iran before 1300 BCE, both bringing with them the Indo-Iranian languages.
dghughes 3y ago
I know a Tamil guy we often discussed things and would end up on culture, language, ethnicity. He would say to me and I'm paraphrasing obviously, "Look at my nose it is flat but your nose isn't you look like the people from the north. Look at my skin it is dark but the ones up north it is light like your skin" meaning Indians. At the time I didn't realize he was most likely referring to the "Aryan Invasion" theory which is now seen as false. Even his own comment about his own nose I don't know if he knew nose shape was used to divide people into Aryan and Dravidian. Probably inspired by Eugenics ideas of the time. Another person in our group was Mi'kmaq First Nations aka "Indian" he was also there when we were discussing this. So it was a bit bizarre or funny since the Indian was not an Indian and the Indian was Tamil and didn't consider themselves ethnically Indian.
- ralfd 3y ago
  But the Aryan invasion is not false? https://scroll.in/article/936872/two-new-genetic-studies-upheld-aryan-migration-theory-so-why-did-indian-media-report-the-opposite https://scroll.in/article/936872/two-new-genetic-studies-uph... It is a political issue in India, obviously, but the North has more Aryan steppe ancestry than the south: https://araingang.medium.com/south-asia-ancestry-map-637092c0728a https://araingang.medium.com/south-asia-ancestry-map-637092c...
  - dghughes 3y ago
    It was and then wasn't back and forth. I think I'll just wait for the book to come out..
    - amriksohata 3y ago
      This is what I mean
    - thaumasiotes 3y ago
      The book came out a while ago. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101873469/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101873469/ Here's a review of the part that applies to India: https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/03/30/the-indian-chapter-of-who-we-are-and-how-we-got-here/ https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/03/30/the-indian-chapter-o... There has never been a back-and-forth on the issue, only ideological insistence on ignoring the facts.

simonh 3y ago

What sort of study would you like to be done? A comparison of what the scriptures say and what the known physical evidence says wouldn’t take much study really. A problem with investigations of physical evidence of bible stories is they are often paid for by christian organisations in the US, with the explicit goal of ‘proving the bible true’. As a result we get a lot of extremely low grade, deliberately misinterpreted amateur archaeology that’s really only designed to please the sponsors, but is obvious junk. Any attempt to verify something from any form of scripture with modern adherents risks suffering from this problem of motivated reasoning.

Affric 3y ago

That means there needs to be science education. New evidence = hypothesis falsified. New hypothesis needed. That’s science working right.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dhfbshfbu4u3 3y ago

Vishnu comes in the form that is needed most and sometimes that is radiometric dating.

nkrisc 3y ago

> the X number of thousands of years currently thought to be true. Which is based on currently available archeological and genetic evidence. What do you wish to study? How ancient writings are contradicted by modern evidence?

thaumasiotes 3y ago

> Many people across Asia reject the Aryan invasion theory Really? Does anyone outside India reject it? It's true that there are many people inside India who reject it, but they are doing that for the most transparent, and stupid, ideological reasons. No one is proud of the Catholic rejection of heliocentrism today.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Almost everyone competent outside India now rejects the "Aryan invasion theory" in terms of rejecting that term for the arrival of the Indo-European languages from the northwest. Today terms like "Aryan migration theory" are preferred. Not that this placates Hindu fundamentalists; it is the very notion that their sacred language arrived from outside (and is just about 3000 years old, not millions of years old) that they find offensive, not the term itself. There are a few European or American scholars (or "scholars") who reject the idea that the Indo-Aryan languages ultimately arrived from outside the continent. They usually tend to be converts to Indian spirituality and so their objections have a partly religious basis. Koenraad Elst is perhaps the most famous. The OP's claim that the notion is rejected across Asia is something he pulled out of his arse; India aside, linguists across the region very much uphold the scholarly consensus.

mikhailfranco 3y ago

Completely different timescale. Not relevant for this discussion.

gus_massa 3y ago
I agree. I wanted some numbers: From the article: > The age of the lowest fossil, a fragment of a leg bone found 7 meters deep, suggests modern humans arrived in this region between 86,000 and 68,000 years ago. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migrations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migrations > From the BMAC, the Indo-Aryans migrated into northern Syria and, possibly in multiple waves, into the Punjab (northern Pakistan and India), while the Iranians could have reached western Iran before 1300 BCE, both bringing with them the Indo-Iranian languages.

dghughes 3y ago

I know a Tamil guy we often discussed things and would end up on culture, language, ethnicity. He would say to me and I'm paraphrasing obviously, "Look at my nose it is flat but your nose isn't you look like the people from the north. Look at my skin it is dark but the ones up north it is light like your skin" meaning Indians. At the time I didn't realize he was most likely referring to the "Aryan Invasion" theory which is now seen as false. Even his own comment about his own nose I don't know if he knew nose shape was used to divide people into Aryan and Dravidian. Probably inspired by Eugenics ideas of the time. Another person in our group was Mi'kmaq First Nations aka "Indian" he was also there when we were discussing this. So it was a bit bizarre or funny since the Indian was not an Indian and the Indian was Tamil and didn't consider themselves ethnically Indian.

ralfd 3y ago
But the Aryan invasion is not false? https://scroll.in/article/936872/two-new-genetic-studies-upheld-aryan-migration-theory-so-why-did-indian-media-report-the-opposite https://scroll.in/article/936872/two-new-genetic-studies-uph... It is a political issue in India, obviously, but the North has more Aryan steppe ancestry than the south: https://araingang.medium.com/south-asia-ancestry-map-637092c0728a https://araingang.medium.com/south-asia-ancestry-map-637092c...
- dghughes 3y ago
  It was and then wasn't back and forth. I think I'll just wait for the book to come out..
  - amriksohata 3y ago
    This is what I mean
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    The book came out a while ago. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101873469/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101873469/ Here's a review of the part that applies to India: https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/03/30/the-indian-chapter-of-who-we-are-and-how-we-got-here/ https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/03/30/the-indian-chapter-o... There has never been a back-and-forth on the issue, only ideological insistence on ignoring the facts.