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It is not as uncommon as you may think. Invariably, police find evidence of an accused’s browser search history detailing methods of disposal, effects of toxic

by nelox 3y ago

It is not as uncommon as you may think. Invariably, police find evidence of an accused’s browser search history detailing methods of disposal, effects of toxic agents, rates of decomposition, etc., etc. If you want to know the excruciating detail of how people kill, maim, torture, evade and otherwise abuse others, pick up the latest book about the serial killer de jour. Trawl through court records where evidence of criminal violence is described in excoriating detail, including acts of genocide. Clearly, all the training material for the Chatbot is available on the Internet and it is no different from you or me searching for it. Or is it?

Aspie96 3y ago
Yet is's LLMs that people are loosing it about, not search engines.
api 3y ago
Thank god for dumb criminals. Anyone stupid enough to search for help on their murder while logged into the search engine and not clear their cache is also going to be too stupid to clear their chat bot history or use an anonymous interface there. They are also likely too dumb to run local models, which requires at the very least installing software and usually requires a fairly beefy machine. Anyone who knows how to cover their tracks online via even basic methods like private browsing mode is just not going to get caught this way.
- tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
  It is routine to use evidence that would still be available if someone did all of these things.
User23 3y ago
My personal favorite is when leaving your phone at home is entered into the record as evidence of wrong-doing.
- giantrobot 3y ago
  That's not evidence of wrong doing itself and won't be used as such. It however can be used as evidence of intent. If you leave the house every day unarmed but the day of an alleged crime you're seen leaving the house armed that fact can be used to show intent to commit a crime with that weapon. Likewise you leave the house every day with your phone but leave without it the day of the crime, that's going to be used to prove intent. If you're charged with a crime requiring intent/mens rea/malice of forethought then anything hinting at your state of mind will be entered into evidence. Leaving your phone at home isn't evidence itself of anything and isn't a thing a prosecutor can randomly charge you with.
  - smsm42 3y ago
    > If you leave the house every day unarmed but the day of an alleged crime you're seen leaving the house armed that fact can be used to show intent to commit a crime with that weapon. It doesn't however. Say I am usually do not carry a weapon, but today I wanted to go to the range, and I take one with me. And while cleaning it up, I accidentally shoot somebody. Does my taking a weapon means I intended to shoot them today? Not at all - I could have shot anybody at any day, it's just that the day I went to the range with the weapon was today, if I went yesterday, the same could have happened and would be as unintentional. Or, for example, on the way to the range, the same day, I meet my sworn enemy, we get into a fight, and I shoot him. Did I intend it? Not at all, I didn't even know I'd meet him today, and if I met him any other day it'd probably wouldn't happen, as I wouldn't have the weapon, but again it doesn't prove intent. It's a logical fallacy to conclude that if something happened, then all events prior to that without which it couldn't happen were purposely arranged with the goal of that event to happen.
    - salad-tycoon 3y ago
      Yeah but that’s kinda the point, motive/intent is a question and in question. Thus, you take it to the courts to decide after you make your arguments.
- smsm42 3y ago

by nelox 3y ago

Aspie96 3y ago

Yet is's LLMs that people are loosing it about, not search engines.

api 3y ago

Thank god for dumb criminals. Anyone stupid enough to search for help on their murder while logged into the search engine and not clear their cache is also going to be too stupid to clear their chat bot history or use an anonymous interface there. They are also likely too dumb to run local models, which requires at the very least installing software and usually requires a fairly beefy machine. Anyone who knows how to cover their tracks online via even basic methods like private browsing mode is just not going to get caught this way.

tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
It is routine to use evidence that would still be available if someone did all of these things.

User23 3y ago

My personal favorite is when leaving your phone at home is entered into the record as evidence of wrong-doing.

giantrobot 3y ago
That's not evidence of wrong doing itself and won't be used as such. It however can be used as evidence of intent. If you leave the house every day unarmed but the day of an alleged crime you're seen leaving the house armed that fact can be used to show intent to commit a crime with that weapon. Likewise you leave the house every day with your phone but leave without it the day of the crime, that's going to be used to prove intent. If you're charged with a crime requiring intent/mens rea/malice of forethought then anything hinting at your state of mind will be entered into evidence. Leaving your phone at home isn't evidence itself of anything and isn't a thing a prosecutor can randomly charge you with.
- smsm42 3y ago
  > If you leave the house every day unarmed but the day of an alleged crime you're seen leaving the house armed that fact can be used to show intent to commit a crime with that weapon. It doesn't however. Say I am usually do not carry a weapon, but today I wanted to go to the range, and I take one with me. And while cleaning it up, I accidentally shoot somebody. Does my taking a weapon means I intended to shoot them today? Not at all - I could have shot anybody at any day, it's just that the day I went to the range with the weapon was today, if I went yesterday, the same could have happened and would be as unintentional. Or, for example, on the way to the range, the same day, I meet my sworn enemy, we get into a fight, and I shoot him. Did I intend it? Not at all, I didn't even know I'd meet him today, and if I met him any other day it'd probably wouldn't happen, as I wouldn't have the weapon, but again it doesn't prove intent. It's a logical fallacy to conclude that if something happened, then all events prior to that without which it couldn't happen were purposely arranged with the goal of that event to happen.
  - salad-tycoon 3y ago
    Yeah but that’s kinda the point, motive/intent is a question and in question. Thus, you take it to the courts to decide after you make your arguments.
smsm42 3y ago