4 ms·

> In statements, each disowned any responsibility. Gino, unaware that she was also being investigated by Data Colada, praised the team for its determination and

by rdtsc 3y ago

> In statements, each disowned any responsibility. Gino, unaware that she was also being investigated by Data Colada, praised the team for its determination and skill: “The work they do takes talent and courage and vastly improves our research field.” Ariely, apparently taken aback, underscored that he had been the only author who handled the data. He then seemed to imply that the findings could have been falsified only by someone at the insurance company. The insurance company then showed their data and it wasn’t falsified. That’s just amazing. They both falsified data, and when caught, pointed at each other. Gino was fired but Ariely kept his job then sued Data Colada. She had claimed it was misogyny and discrimination. She may be right in respect to how she was treated compared to Ariely. Was it still worth cheating for both of them? Money-wise, absolutely! Add up all their book fees and speaking fees that they’ll never have to repay back. They can already retire comfortably. EDIT: Gino wasn't fired. She was placed on administrative leave. Revocation of tenure was only implied as a possibility.

whimsicalism 3y ago
They are employed at different institutions, only Gino works at Harvard. I dont believe she has been fired either, yet.
- rdtsc 3y ago
  You're right she wasn't fired. It was implied it might happen only. I misread: > she would be placed on administrative leave, and that he was instituting perhaps unprecedented proceedings to revoke her tenure. They are at different institutions. I meant that her claim at her own institution about misogyny seems like lashing out. She falsified data, the evidence is fairly convincing. But in a broader picture, in the media, she has gotten more scrutiny and flak than Ariely, that's what I meant.
bachmeier 3y ago
> Add up all their book fees and speaking fees that they’ll never have to repay back. They can already retire comfortably. Don't forget their faculty salaries. Duke is a private institution, so we don't have access to his salary, but absolute minimum Ariely makes 400K (and probably way more). You don't leave MIT for a chaired professorship at Duke unless it comes with a very, very hefty salary. 25 years of a salary like that will by itself provide you with a good retirement. You don't need to get the media attention of Ariely to benefit from fraud.
- dharmon 3y ago
  Not to mention the hefty consulting fees he’s been getting for years from places like Google. IMO those probably dwarf his faculty salary and money from books.
- 77pt77 3y ago
  Glassdoor [1] seems to imply full professors at MIT make around 200K. [1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/MIT-Professor-Salaries-E2889_D_KO4,13.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/MIT-Professor-Salaries-E288...
  - bachmeier 3y ago
    That's not really relevant. Ariely was an economics professor in the business school at MIT. He then got an offer as a chaired professor at Duke (certainly with a big raise). Economics professors at top schools have very high salaries relative to most fields, but chaired professors with big media profiles get way more than that. If you want to see what I'm talking about, here's the data for the first full professor of economics at Michigan that popped into my head. His salary last year was $466K: https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=&LName=shapiro&Year=0 https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=&LName=shapiro&Yea... That's normal for the elite schools. There were rumors 10 years ago that Chicago made a 7-figure offer (denied by the department head at the time). Edit: To be clear, this is what wealthy schools pay. Salaries fall quickly once you exit the top 15 or 20.
    - 77pt77 3y ago
      So those glassdoor numbers are completely wrong? Because nothing there reaches 300K. Is the disparity between disciplines that high?
      - bachmeier 3y ago
        > Is the disparity between disciplines that high? At the wealthiest schools, yes. 200K is a high salary in many disciplines. Here's the data for a chaired professor of philosophy: https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=elizabeth&LName=anderson&Year=0 https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=elizabeth&LName=an... and history: https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=juan&LName=cole&Year=0 https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=juan&LName=cole&Ye... Still good salaries, but not at the same level.
unsupp0rted 3y ago
> She had claimed it was misogyny and discrimination. She may be right in respect to how she was treated compared to Ariely. Ariely has been well-known outside academia since his TED talk and wildly successful book 15 years ago. Surely that offers a good deal of insulation for him, without needing to play the discrimination card too.
- nostromo 3y ago
  Given that he’s famous for presenting faked data, his previous accomplishments aren’t real and shouldn’t get him off the hook.
  - andrewflnr 3y ago
    GP is not attempting to exonerate Ariely, but blunt the accusation of sexism on the part of everyone else (who treated him differently from Gino).
latency-guy2 3y ago
I think it's misogynistic to think that women can do no wrong. Gino certainly can stuff her shit where she found it.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  I don't know if her claims have any real merit but I suspect it's become part of the unofficial vindictive employee playbook to make a discrimination complaint anytime you're facing termination for cause. Everyone who isn't a straight white male is a member of at least one protected class. The most we can do is play the whistleblower-retribution card, even if it's a farce. It appears to be worth attempting-- it costs you nothing and shakes the employer down for a quick and favorable settlement to shut you up. I've seen it done by two ex-employees in the last three years, and there was a recent news article about a woman at some insurer who was submitting timecards for hours worked while caught redhanded as AWOL...she immediately cried discrimination too.
6502nerdface 3y ago
I used to work at Two Sigma Investments, and back in 2012-2014 or so, after the publication of his "irrationality" books (before the ones about dishonesty), Dan Ariely gave a well-attended talk at the company headquarters (I wonder what his speaking fee was!). I remember thinking even then that there was something off about his arguments, and I'm not surprised that he has since been exposed as a likely fraud. For example, throughout his talk, he kept making the point that when someone made a self-serving claim or argument, he would "hold on to his wallet," making an analogy to pickpockets. He then concluded his talk with a transparently self-serving argument that the importance of studying irrationality was growing over time because (as just one example, I suppose), the share of deaths attributed to preventable causes (self-inflicted, etc.) was increasing over the decades, making it sound like society is becoming more irrational. This seemed very weak to me, because that's exactly what you would expect if civilization is making progress over time... if science and technology keep eliminating the exogenous causes of death, over time we should be left with just the endogenous ones. Anyway, I thought of raising my hand to ask if I should reach for my own wallet, but was too young and nervous.
- tycho-newman 3y ago
  I, too, saw through Dan Ariely's dog and pony show. I just didn't want to bring it up because people would think I was just showing off my clearly superior intellect.
garyrob 3y ago
> The insurance company then showed their data and it wasn’t falsified. That’s just amazing. They both falsified data, and when caught, pointed at each other. Can you or anyone give more information on this? That data was definitely falsified at some point, so I don't know what you mean that it wasn't. Are you saying the insurance company gave the four researchers reasonable-looking data, and therefore, the four must have falsified it? Do you have a source?
77pt77 3y ago
> They both falsified data, and when caught, pointed at each other. Why is that amazing? It's just the default go to. These people don't reach these positions by being honest and admitting their mistakes. They do it by playing these kinds of games.
- rdtsc 3y ago
  Well most of all because their papers are focused on dishonesty and how to nudge people towards being honest. “It takes one to recognize one…” or however that saying goes. Or another one is how people study their own affliction: a common occurrence in psychology from what I hear.
chaostheory 3y ago
Wasn’t Gino the one who filed the lawsuit? https://www.gofundme.com/f/uhbka-support-data-coladas-legal-defense https://www.gofundme.com/f/uhbka-support-data-coladas-legal-... Leif Nelson, Joe Simmons, and Uri Simonsohn are professors who together publish the Data Colada blog. In June 2023, they published a series of blog posts (linked below) raising concerns about the integrity of the data in four papers co-authored by Harvard Business School (HBS) Professor Francesca Gino. They waited to publish these blog posts until after the HBS’s investigation concluded, with HBS placing Professor Gino on leave and requesting retractions for the four papers. In early August 2023, Professor Gino filed a lawsuit for defamation against Harvard University, and against Leif, Joe, and Uri personally, claiming 25 million dollars in damages.
bakuninsbart 3y ago
Ariely's book "Predictably irrational" was an absolutely delightful, short, pop-science read. It so clearly and usefully condensed science into tidbits you could sprinkle into intellectual conversation or incorporate into your lifestyle. Turns out the science behind it might just be trash, but since I repeated the BS in the same unwarranted confidence, people never questioned me.

by rdtsc 3y ago

whimsicalism 3y ago

They are employed at different institutions, only Gino works at Harvard. I dont believe she has been fired either, yet.

rdtsc 3y ago
You're right she wasn't fired. It was implied it might happen only. I misread: > she would be placed on administrative leave, and that he was instituting perhaps unprecedented proceedings to revoke her tenure. They are at different institutions. I meant that her claim at her own institution about misogyny seems like lashing out. She falsified data, the evidence is fairly convincing. But in a broader picture, in the media, she has gotten more scrutiny and flak than Ariely, that's what I meant.

bachmeier 3y ago

> Add up all their book fees and speaking fees that they’ll never have to repay back. They can already retire comfortably. Don't forget their faculty salaries. Duke is a private institution, so we don't have access to his salary, but absolute minimum Ariely makes 400K (and probably way more). You don't leave MIT for a chaired professorship at Duke unless it comes with a very, very hefty salary. 25 years of a salary like that will by itself provide you with a good retirement. You don't need to get the media attention of Ariely to benefit from fraud.

dharmon 3y ago
Not to mention the hefty consulting fees he’s been getting for years from places like Google. IMO those probably dwarf his faculty salary and money from books.
77pt77 3y ago
Glassdoor [1] seems to imply full professors at MIT make around 200K. [1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/MIT-Professor-Salaries-E2889_D_KO4,13.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/MIT-Professor-Salaries-E288...
- bachmeier 3y ago
  That's not really relevant. Ariely was an economics professor in the business school at MIT. He then got an offer as a chaired professor at Duke (certainly with a big raise). Economics professors at top schools have very high salaries relative to most fields, but chaired professors with big media profiles get way more than that. If you want to see what I'm talking about, here's the data for the first full professor of economics at Michigan that popped into my head. His salary last year was $466K: https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=&LName=shapiro&Year=0 https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=&LName=shapiro&Yea... That's normal for the elite schools. There were rumors 10 years ago that Chicago made a 7-figure offer (denied by the department head at the time). Edit: To be clear, this is what wealthy schools pay. Salaries fall quickly once you exit the top 15 or 20.
  - 77pt77 3y ago
    So those glassdoor numbers are completely wrong? Because nothing there reaches 300K. Is the disparity between disciplines that high?
    - bachmeier 3y ago
      > Is the disparity between disciplines that high? At the wealthiest schools, yes. 200K is a high salary in many disciplines. Here's the data for a chaired professor of philosophy: https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=elizabeth&LName=anderson&Year=0 https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=elizabeth&LName=an... and history: https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=juan&LName=cole&Year=0 https://www.umsalary.info/index.php?FName=juan&LName=cole&Ye... Still good salaries, but not at the same level.

unsupp0rted 3y ago

> She had claimed it was misogyny and discrimination. She may be right in respect to how she was treated compared to Ariely. Ariely has been well-known outside academia since his TED talk and wildly successful book 15 years ago. Surely that offers a good deal of insulation for him, without needing to play the discrimination card too.

nostromo 3y ago
Given that he’s famous for presenting faked data, his previous accomplishments aren’t real and shouldn’t get him off the hook.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  GP is not attempting to exonerate Ariely, but blunt the accusation of sexism on the part of everyone else (who treated him differently from Gino).

latency-guy2 3y ago

I think it's misogynistic to think that women can do no wrong. Gino certainly can stuff her shit where she found it.

jstarfish 3y ago
I don't know if her claims have any real merit but I suspect it's become part of the unofficial vindictive employee playbook to make a discrimination complaint anytime you're facing termination for cause. Everyone who isn't a straight white male is a member of at least one protected class. The most we can do is play the whistleblower-retribution card, even if it's a farce. It appears to be worth attempting-- it costs you nothing and shakes the employer down for a quick and favorable settlement to shut you up. I've seen it done by two ex-employees in the last three years, and there was a recent news article about a woman at some insurer who was submitting timecards for hours worked while caught redhanded as AWOL...she immediately cried discrimination too.

6502nerdface 3y ago

I used to work at Two Sigma Investments, and back in 2012-2014 or so, after the publication of his "irrationality" books (before the ones about dishonesty), Dan Ariely gave a well-attended talk at the company headquarters (I wonder what his speaking fee was!). I remember thinking even then that there was something off about his arguments, and I'm not surprised that he has since been exposed as a likely fraud. For example, throughout his talk, he kept making the point that when someone made a self-serving claim or argument, he would "hold on to his wallet," making an analogy to pickpockets. He then concluded his talk with a transparently self-serving argument that the importance of studying irrationality was growing over time because (as just one example, I suppose), the share of deaths attributed to preventable causes (self-inflicted, etc.) was increasing over the decades, making it sound like society is becoming more irrational. This seemed very weak to me, because that's exactly what you would expect if civilization is making progress over time... if science and technology keep eliminating the exogenous causes of death, over time we should be left with just the endogenous ones. Anyway, I thought of raising my hand to ask if I should reach for my own wallet, but was too young and nervous.

tycho-newman 3y ago
I, too, saw through Dan Ariely's dog and pony show. I just didn't want to bring it up because people would think I was just showing off my clearly superior intellect.

garyrob 3y ago

> The insurance company then showed their data and it wasn’t falsified. That’s just amazing. They both falsified data, and when caught, pointed at each other. Can you or anyone give more information on this? That data was definitely falsified at some point, so I don't know what you mean that it wasn't. Are you saying the insurance company gave the four researchers reasonable-looking data, and therefore, the four must have falsified it? Do you have a source?

77pt77 3y ago

> They both falsified data, and when caught, pointed at each other. Why is that amazing? It's just the default go to. These people don't reach these positions by being honest and admitting their mistakes. They do it by playing these kinds of games.

rdtsc 3y ago
Well most of all because their papers are focused on dishonesty and how to nudge people towards being honest. “It takes one to recognize one…” or however that saying goes. Or another one is how people study their own affliction: a common occurrence in psychology from what I hear.

chaostheory 3y ago

Wasn’t Gino the one who filed the lawsuit? https://www.gofundme.com/f/uhbka-support-data-coladas-legal-defense https://www.gofundme.com/f/uhbka-support-data-coladas-legal-... Leif Nelson, Joe Simmons, and Uri Simonsohn are professors who together publish the Data Colada blog. In June 2023, they published a series of blog posts (linked below) raising concerns about the integrity of the data in four papers co-authored by Harvard Business School (HBS) Professor Francesca Gino. They waited to publish these blog posts until after the HBS’s investigation concluded, with HBS placing Professor Gino on leave and requesting retractions for the four papers. In early August 2023, Professor Gino filed a lawsuit for defamation against Harvard University, and against Leif, Joe, and Uri personally, claiming 25 million dollars in damages.

bakuninsbart 3y ago

Ariely's book "Predictably irrational" was an absolutely delightful, short, pop-science read. It so clearly and usefully condensed science into tidbits you could sprinkle into intellectual conversation or incorporate into your lifestyle. Turns out the science behind it might just be trash, but since I repeated the BS in the same unwarranted confidence, people never questioned me.