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> to detect folks claiming to be working when they're not even there I think it's outrageous to look at it this way. Tracking for security, safety, or insuranc

by isodev 3y ago

> to detect folks claiming to be working when they're not even there I think it's outrageous to look at it this way. Tracking for security, safety, or insurance purposes—sure. Maybe even to make it easier to post your hours. Tracking to detect who is working and how many bathroom breaks they take—that's not the way to go. We're humans right? Surely there are ways to detect when someone doesn't fulfil a task they were supposed to.

metamet 3y ago
> Tracking to detect who is working and how many bathroom breaks they take—that's not the way to go. Given the way Amazon treats their warehouse workers, I'm more surprised folks don't already assume they Big Brother their office workers in a similar way.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  One of those classes is more equal than the other, though I assure you that when Bezos stares down at them all from space, he does not see them any differently.
petee 3y ago
Yeah I agree it is quite invasive, and humans aren't machines. I have a coworker going through colon cancer and has to use a colostomy bag which takes time to deal with. ...Amazon would just fire him for wasting time in the bathroom. Still a great worker, just needs more time than the average. What a great future we are working towards.
- greedo 3y ago
  He should be protected under the ADA, and if he gets fired, that's going to be a pretty chunk of change.
  - Pet_Ant 3y ago
    Okay, but that is after-the-fact. He has to stress about it now and then file a lawsuit while unemployed and dealing with cancer. I mean, even if he wins... that supposes that he lives long enough to win the suit. So "should" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comment.
    - greedo 3y ago
      I understand the stress, having been through it myself. I think that employees should have greater rights than they currently do, but that will take another generation of voters that didn't grow up with the veneration of business imbued by Ronald Reagan etc. In my particular case, I've made extensive use of the ADA to make sure that I don't have to deal with any BS about bathroom breaks etc. Of course I work in IT so I'm pretty privileged compared to a guy slaving away in an Amazon warehouse.
    - buffington 3y ago
      All true, and very well said. Having a disability, temporary or otherwise, is in itself a burden most people don't have to carry. Having to worry that it could get you fired feels awful, and it's something you think about most of the time. If you're someone who needs the protections of the ADA, you should make sure your HR team knows what accommodations you need. I have a disability that isn't obvious, and have to routinely make sure that my leaders are aware of the accommodations I need. I've had HR actively take action on my behalf when certain middle managers didn't know, or care, to support those accommodations. In one incident, they fired a manager over their lack of support. While I hate that I need to do it, it tends to be worth it to make sure your company knows what you need. I'd also like to think that, should I ever get fired because HR didn't manage to intervene in a similar situation as described, the dispute would be more likely to go my way. It at least removes the ability for the company to say "we didn't know about the disability."
  - Salgat 3y ago
    Can we stop acting like it isn't trivial to get around these laws if you're not stupid about it? The US has at-will employment, which means that you just come up with another excuse to fire someone without being stupid enough to explicitly state it's related to their disability.
    - greedo 3y ago
      As someone who: Had colon cancer Has a colostomy Was fired during my treatment I'm very aware of how companies can try to discriminate against employees who are disabled. If Amazon tries to fire this guy for not meeting his "quota," then they also need to demonstrate that they've made reasonable accommodations. They also need to carefully document his performance issues. Juries are very amenable to a plaintiff suing for unfair dismissal. Yes, this requires having enough money to hire a good lawyer, or finding one either working pro bono or willing to work on a contingency basis. Or finding an agency like the EEOC etc which will help with this. The alternative is to just say "too bad" and let companies get away with this shit.
      - rexpop 3y ago
        No, that's not the only alternative. Where did you come by this defeatist perspective? Another alternative is union representation to confront the firing before it happens.
        greedo 3y ago
        I agree with unionization, but I was discussing the current status quo for the majority of workers in the US. Hopefully unions will both grow in number and be strengthened.
        rexpop 3y ago
        Oh, I see. I misunderstood. Perhaps the fault lies with my ideological bent, or with the English language. When you said "The alternative is to just say 'too bad' and let companies get away with this shit" there were no pronouns or whatever indicating the subject of the verbs "say" and "let". I assumed the subject of the sentence was a broad "we, as a society, over the next several decades", whereas I'm now realizing you meant "one, as an individual caught in this particularly tragic moment." Thank you for clarifying.
black_13 3y ago
[dead]

by isodev 3y ago

metamet 3y ago

> Tracking to detect who is working and how many bathroom breaks they take—that's not the way to go. Given the way Amazon treats their warehouse workers, I'm more surprised folks don't already assume they Big Brother their office workers in a similar way.

hotpotamus 3y ago
One of those classes is more equal than the other, though I assure you that when Bezos stares down at them all from space, he does not see them any differently.

petee 3y ago

Yeah I agree it is quite invasive, and humans aren't machines. I have a coworker going through colon cancer and has to use a colostomy bag which takes time to deal with. ...Amazon would just fire him for wasting time in the bathroom. Still a great worker, just needs more time than the average. What a great future we are working towards.

greedo 3y ago
He should be protected under the ADA, and if he gets fired, that's going to be a pretty chunk of change.
- Pet_Ant 3y ago
  Okay, but that is after-the-fact. He has to stress about it now and then file a lawsuit while unemployed and dealing with cancer. I mean, even if he wins... that supposes that he lives long enough to win the suit. So "should" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comment.
  - greedo 3y ago
    I understand the stress, having been through it myself. I think that employees should have greater rights than they currently do, but that will take another generation of voters that didn't grow up with the veneration of business imbued by Ronald Reagan etc. In my particular case, I've made extensive use of the ADA to make sure that I don't have to deal with any BS about bathroom breaks etc. Of course I work in IT so I'm pretty privileged compared to a guy slaving away in an Amazon warehouse.
  - buffington 3y ago
    All true, and very well said. Having a disability, temporary or otherwise, is in itself a burden most people don't have to carry. Having to worry that it could get you fired feels awful, and it's something you think about most of the time. If you're someone who needs the protections of the ADA, you should make sure your HR team knows what accommodations you need. I have a disability that isn't obvious, and have to routinely make sure that my leaders are aware of the accommodations I need. I've had HR actively take action on my behalf when certain middle managers didn't know, or care, to support those accommodations. In one incident, they fired a manager over their lack of support. While I hate that I need to do it, it tends to be worth it to make sure your company knows what you need. I'd also like to think that, should I ever get fired because HR didn't manage to intervene in a similar situation as described, the dispute would be more likely to go my way. It at least removes the ability for the company to say "we didn't know about the disability."
- Salgat 3y ago
  Can we stop acting like it isn't trivial to get around these laws if you're not stupid about it? The US has at-will employment, which means that you just come up with another excuse to fire someone without being stupid enough to explicitly state it's related to their disability.
  - greedo 3y ago
    As someone who: Had colon cancer Has a colostomy Was fired during my treatment I'm very aware of how companies can try to discriminate against employees who are disabled. If Amazon tries to fire this guy for not meeting his "quota," then they also need to demonstrate that they've made reasonable accommodations. They also need to carefully document his performance issues. Juries are very amenable to a plaintiff suing for unfair dismissal. Yes, this requires having enough money to hire a good lawyer, or finding one either working pro bono or willing to work on a contingency basis. Or finding an agency like the EEOC etc which will help with this. The alternative is to just say "too bad" and let companies get away with this shit.
    - rexpop 3y ago
      No, that's not the only alternative. Where did you come by this defeatist perspective? Another alternative is union representation to confront the firing before it happens.
      - greedo 3y ago
        I agree with unionization, but I was discussing the current status quo for the majority of workers in the US. Hopefully unions will both grow in number and be strengthened.
        rexpop 3y ago
        Oh, I see. I misunderstood. Perhaps the fault lies with my ideological bent, or with the English language. When you said "The alternative is to just say 'too bad' and let companies get away with this shit" there were no pronouns or whatever indicating the subject of the verbs "say" and "let". I assumed the subject of the sentence was a broad "we, as a society, over the next several decades", whereas I'm now realizing you meant "one, as an individual caught in this particularly tragic moment." Thank you for clarifying.

black_13 3y ago

[dead]