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I guess I'm more surprised that these were anonymous at some point. That seems like a pretty normal thing to track when you pay employees hourly. Were they in t
by zeta0134 3y ago
I guess I'm more surprised that these were anonymous at some point. That seems like a pretty normal thing to track when you pay employees hourly. Were they in the building when they claimed to be working?
Like I realize this is charged up by the work from home discussion, but I'd expect any building with a badge to get in the door to be tracking those events, at the very least to detect unauthorized access, but also to detect folks claiming to be working when they're not even there. Basic fraud prevention stuff really.
- civilitty 3y agoI didn’t think anyone wanted to open that Pandora’s box with respect to hourly workers lest people start suing for unpaid work using badge in time as evidence. As long as they don’t track it too closely they have a lot more plausible deniability for wage theft. Once they start tracking it, the lawyers can start manipulating juries.
- 26fingies 3y agoDoes presenting evidence count as manipulating a jury?
- pixl97 3y agoThe old "Objection, this evidence is damning to my case" ploy.
- Qem 3y agoAs it's often said, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you're going to watch closely people on the hours done, also make sure to pay them properly for any excess hours. Wage theft is the worst kind of theft.
- lm28469 3y ago> That seems like a pretty normal thing to track when you pay employees hourly. We need eye trackers and brain implants to make sure the workers aren't looking at something else or thinking about non work related tasks too. I don't want to pay these parasites a single cent for idle time /s
- smeej 3y agoI didn't get the impression these were hourly employees, or that this was restricted to hourly employees. It seems to be less about "How many hours were you in the building?" than "Which days did you come to the building?" which tracks compliance with an RTO mandate that even affects salaried employees.
- CodeWriter23 3y agoSalaried employees are typically expected to work 5 days a week, hours not tracked. But tracking attendance and the designated work venue seems very fair to me.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 88913527 3y agoIt's normal for a badge-checking system, but it's still an erosion of white-collar norms (autonomy being the key one) to be so proscriptive about how knowledge workers complete their work. Side note, but when I worked somewhere with badged entrances, one person would badge the whole group. So this data wouldn't mean employees aren't there if there is no swipe.
- ajmurmann 3y agoYou aren't supposed to do that anyway. It seems far fetched, but someone might have been terminated without you knowing and is trying to sneak back in. At a larger enough company, this is bound to occur
- alistairSH 3y agoI've never worked someplace that enforced individual badging. I know it happens at secure/government installations. But, random software company in the suburbs? First person off the elevator badges and everybody else follows.
- scruple 3y agoWe're supposed to do individual scans. If I walk through a door that someone is holding for me I can my badge and make a quip about Big Brother. A lot of people don't scan in these situations and I think that's a mistake. Our employer is absolutely tracking badge scans against employees who are supposed to be RTO.
- buffington 3y agoI've been in the tech industry since 1995, and I've never worked somewhere that didn't require individual security badges to gain access to the building. Both schemes exist in abundance.
- NBJack 3y agoSome of the FANG certainly do, using one at a time admission enforcement devices in some (but not necessarily all) of their core offices. Amazon, Meta for sure.
- isodev 3y ago> to detect folks claiming to be working when they're not even there I think it's outrageous to look at it this way. Tracking for security, safety, or insurance purposes—sure. Maybe even to make it easier to post your hours. Tracking to detect who is working and how many bathroom breaks they take—that's not the way to go. We're humans right? Surely there are ways to detect when someone doesn't fulfil a task they were supposed to.
- metamet 3y ago> Tracking to detect who is working and how many bathroom breaks they take—that's not the way to go. Given the way Amazon treats their warehouse workers, I'm more surprised folks don't already assume they Big Brother their office workers in a similar way.
- hotpotamus 3y agoOne of those classes is more equal than the other, though I assure you that when Bezos stares down at them all from space, he does not see them any differently.
- petee 3y agoYeah I agree it is quite invasive, and humans aren't machines. I have a coworker going through colon cancer and has to use a colostomy bag which takes time to deal with. ...Amazon would just fire him for wasting time in the bathroom. Still a great worker, just needs more time than the average. What a great future we are working towards.
- greedo 3y agoHe should be protected under the ADA, and if he gets fired, that's going to be a pretty chunk of change.
- Pet_Ant 3y agoOkay, but that is after-the-fact. He has to stress about it now and then file a lawsuit while unemployed and dealing with cancer. I mean, even if he wins... that supposes that he lives long enough to win the suit. So "should" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comment.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jimmydddd 3y ago30 years ago, a friend of mine worked at a Wall Street bank in NYC. They had a policy that you could take a car service (paid by the company) home if you worked in the office until 9PM. He used to badge out at around 6PM, go to dinner/drinks at a nearby restaurant, then badge back in a 9PM and order a car. :-) This behavior was noticed by the badge police and we was soon looking for a new job. :-)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fnordpiglet 3y agoThis data is not typically provided to line managers, and is usually only used in extreme cases by HR. The news is your boss is now basic time clocking salaried employees. That’s not new either, but it is pretty new for professionals in software. It’s also historically not how salaried employment worked. Salaried employment meant you’re paid a salary and you get your job done or lose your job. No one is tracking your time in any way, and you are afforded a certain amount of trust. Your performance is based on your output as judged by your managers. Paid time off accounting scuttled this for salaried people, but this is a next level of bean counting for salaried professionals.
- Root_Denied 3y agoThe badging data absolutely existed before now - but who had access to it, who was looking at it, and what was the criteria used to determine days in office? Answers to those questions have changed over the last 6 months.
- scruple 3y agoI know that my employer (big company everyone here knows) is tracking badge scans as part of RTO compliance. I've had conversations with my manager about it because I'm supposed to be in 3 days per week but typically only make it 2 due to a physical therapy appointment. It's no problem, since I've worked it out with my manager, but I do wonder if I'll get swooped up in some dragnet and be forced to explain myself, or worse.
- kylestlb 3y agobut they aren't tracking when an employee leaves the office. go in, make yourself visible for 15 minutes, then head back home. easy peazy!