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Ultimately though it’s clear that Google and Microsoft place high value on Apples customers, who are much richer and spend more money than customers using Andro

Ultimately though it’s clear that Google and Microsoft place high value on Apples customers, who are much richer and spend more money than customers using Android or other devices. No company has that kind of user base that Apple has. They do this by designing the best products and services for a very high premium price that attracts those users. It’s remarkable that they can release a phone for $1600.00 (pro max with 1TB storage) and sell millions of them every year.

gruez 3y ago
>It’s remarkable that they can release a phone for $1600.00 (pro max with 1TB storage) and sell millions of them every year. So? The galaxy s23 ultra 1tb has msrp of $1619.99 https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-s23-ultra/buy/ https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-s23-ultra/buy/
- mathgeek 3y ago
  In this case it’s likely the ratio of units sold rather than “millions” that expresses GP’s point. You have a point that Samsung is the only company really competing in this space though. See https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2023/08/29/top-10-selling-smartphones-all-from-2-companies-apple-and-samsung/?sh=da2e74857d16 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2023/08/29/top-10-...
johnnyworker 3y ago
> the best products and services Stuff so great you'd have to pay me to use it. In my books, Apple prices are just a tax on people who are bad with computers and organizing their own stuff in the same way lotteries are a tax on not understanding basic math.
- criddell 3y ago
  > Apple prices are just a tax on people who are bad with computers That's kind of the beauty of it. You don't have to be good at computers to use Apple devices and get things done. I think people forget that nobody buys a computer because they want to use a computer. They buy one because they want to run Office or GarageBand or Photoshop or Portal etc...
  - johnnyworker 3y ago
    > I think people forget that nobody buys a computer because they want to use a computer. As in, I am "forgetting" that I am an exact clone of the "the average user", whoever that even is, instead of knowing precisely what I like and respect, and what I don't? Nope. My first use of an Apple was 1999 when friends asked me to help them get on the internet when their parents were away. Never had used an Apple before, took me like 30 mins, all the while feeling insulted by that one-button mouse that was completely unusable without the modifier key on the keyboard. That was my initial impression -- this has to be a joke -- and everything I saw and used since then just confirmed it. From users not knowing what a file is, to devs constantly having to jump through hoops to keep software running because Apple has some new hoops to jump through. If it's good enough for you, that's fine. Doesn't change that it's not good enough for me. Training wheels are great for zoning out on auto-pilot, they just suck when you're fully focused and would prefer to be able to make tighter turns. The average user is getting so exploited and fucked over every single day, that what they think they want because they don't know better doesn't impress me in the least.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  That’s hilarious considering one of Apples most loyal bases is software engineers. Even a number of Linux kernel maintainers are on MacBooks
  - jeremyjh 3y ago
    I agree that a lot of software engineers use MacOS, though maybe not to the extent of 2007. Linux Desktops seem more viable than ever. > Even a number of Linux kernel maintainers are on MacBooks They aren't running MacOS on them though, are they? I'd really like a citation on this if you think they are.
    - J_Shelby_J 3y ago
      What about Linux laptops.
      - jeremyjh 3y ago
        I meant Linux Desktop Environments.
  - tpush 3y ago
    *wealthy software engineers in English speaking countries
  - kyriakos 3y ago
    That's an HN biased opinion, if you look outside the startup ecosystem, many developers in the enterprise don't use macos.
    - rubyfan 3y ago
      s/don’t/aren’t allowed to
      - kyriakos 3y ago
        My workplace gives a choice between Linux / windows / macos. Less than 30% choose macos. It's one sample point but it can't be the only one.
criddell 3y ago
I'm not 100% sure that being wealthier explains it all. Over the past 15 years I've owned Android and iOS/iPadOS devices and I've spent a lot more in the Apple App store. During that whole time I've also owned a Windows computer and I've spent even less in the Microsoft app store. I'm not sure I've ever spent a dime on Linux (other than ordering some distros on CD before I had a good internet connection). > It’s remarkable that they can release a phone for $1600.00 (pro max with 1TB storage) and sell millions of them every year. It's not that remarkable. I keep my phone 3 years so it works out to a little more than $1 / day factoring in trade-in or resale at the end of that time. A lot of people can afford that.
- chii 3y ago
  > It's not that remarkable. it's actually quite remarkable that apple's phone _can_ be made with the level of component quality, at this price point. Similar feature phones from other manufacturers are just not quite on the same level of quality, even at a higher price point. You might even consider it as "cheap" (for what you get). This is actually why i think apple has such a hold on their marketshare. It's not just lockin on the ecosystem.
- ta8903 3y ago
  1$/day is kinda insane if you put it that way. It's equivalent to a $30 subscription, sure, some people would gladly pay that much, but for most of the population in first world countries it's untenable, let alone the rest of the world. And you got this value after accounting for resale. I did a similar calculation for my current phone and it came out to be $12 per month if I keep it for 4 years, which I thought to be too high.
  - dfadsadsf 3y ago
    Considering de facto almost $20 minimum wage in US, $1 is like 3 minutes of work - hardly unaffordable considering average person spends 3-4 hours/day on the phone.
    - rubyfan 3y ago
GoofballJones 3y ago
I use Apple products and I am in no way, in any sense of the word, "rich". I'm not even close. And why is it that someone tries to show how expensive Apple products are, they always list the highest end, most tricked out product? "oh, a Macbook Pro costs over $5000 dollars, but you can get a Windows laptop for only $450!" I'm typing this on a desktop Mac that costs less than a typical video card on a PC. But hey, I'm "rich".

gruez 3y ago

>It’s remarkable that they can release a phone for $1600.00 (pro max with 1TB storage) and sell millions of them every year. So? The galaxy s23 ultra 1tb has msrp of $1619.99 https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-s23-ultra/buy/ https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-s23-ultra/buy/

mathgeek 3y ago
In this case it’s likely the ratio of units sold rather than “millions” that expresses GP’s point. You have a point that Samsung is the only company really competing in this space though. See https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2023/08/29/top-10-selling-smartphones-all-from-2-companies-apple-and-samsung/?sh=da2e74857d16 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2023/08/29/top-10-...

johnnyworker 3y ago

> the best products and services Stuff so great you'd have to pay me to use it. In my books, Apple prices are just a tax on people who are bad with computers and organizing their own stuff in the same way lotteries are a tax on not understanding basic math.

criddell 3y ago
> Apple prices are just a tax on people who are bad with computers That's kind of the beauty of it. You don't have to be good at computers to use Apple devices and get things done. I think people forget that nobody buys a computer because they want to use a computer. They buy one because they want to run Office or GarageBand or Photoshop or Portal etc...
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  > I think people forget that nobody buys a computer because they want to use a computer. As in, I am "forgetting" that I am an exact clone of the "the average user", whoever that even is, instead of knowing precisely what I like and respect, and what I don't? Nope. My first use of an Apple was 1999 when friends asked me to help them get on the internet when their parents were away. Never had used an Apple before, took me like 30 mins, all the while feeling insulted by that one-button mouse that was completely unusable without the modifier key on the keyboard. That was my initial impression -- this has to be a joke -- and everything I saw and used since then just confirmed it. From users not knowing what a file is, to devs constantly having to jump through hoops to keep software running because Apple has some new hoops to jump through. If it's good enough for you, that's fine. Doesn't change that it's not good enough for me. Training wheels are great for zoning out on auto-pilot, they just suck when you're fully focused and would prefer to be able to make tighter turns. The average user is getting so exploited and fucked over every single day, that what they think they want because they don't know better doesn't impress me in the least.
edgyquant 3y ago
That’s hilarious considering one of Apples most loyal bases is software engineers. Even a number of Linux kernel maintainers are on MacBooks
- jeremyjh 3y ago
  I agree that a lot of software engineers use MacOS, though maybe not to the extent of 2007. Linux Desktops seem more viable than ever. > Even a number of Linux kernel maintainers are on MacBooks They aren't running MacOS on them though, are they? I'd really like a citation on this if you think they are.
  - J_Shelby_J 3y ago
    What about Linux laptops.
    - jeremyjh 3y ago
      I meant Linux Desktop Environments.
- tpush 3y ago
  *wealthy software engineers in English speaking countries
- kyriakos 3y ago
  That's an HN biased opinion, if you look outside the startup ecosystem, many developers in the enterprise don't use macos.
  - rubyfan 3y ago
    s/don’t/aren’t allowed to
    - kyriakos 3y ago
      My workplace gives a choice between Linux / windows / macos. Less than 30% choose macos. It's one sample point but it can't be the only one.

criddell 3y ago

I'm not 100% sure that being wealthier explains it all. Over the past 15 years I've owned Android and iOS/iPadOS devices and I've spent a lot more in the Apple App store. During that whole time I've also owned a Windows computer and I've spent even less in the Microsoft app store. I'm not sure I've ever spent a dime on Linux (other than ordering some distros on CD before I had a good internet connection). > It’s remarkable that they can release a phone for $1600.00 (pro max with 1TB storage) and sell millions of them every year. It's not that remarkable. I keep my phone 3 years so it works out to a little more than $1 / day factoring in trade-in or resale at the end of that time. A lot of people can afford that.

chii 3y ago
> It's not that remarkable. it's actually quite remarkable that apple's phone _can_ be made with the level of component quality, at this price point. Similar feature phones from other manufacturers are just not quite on the same level of quality, even at a higher price point. You might even consider it as "cheap" (for what you get). This is actually why i think apple has such a hold on their marketshare. It's not just lockin on the ecosystem.
ta8903 3y ago
1$/day is kinda insane if you put it that way. It's equivalent to a $30 subscription, sure, some people would gladly pay that much, but for most of the population in first world countries it's untenable, let alone the rest of the world. And you got this value after accounting for resale. I did a similar calculation for my current phone and it came out to be $12 per month if I keep it for 4 years, which I thought to be too high.
- dfadsadsf 3y ago
  Considering de facto almost $20 minimum wage in US, $1 is like 3 minutes of work - hardly unaffordable considering average person spends 3-4 hours/day on the phone.
  - rubyfan 3y ago

GoofballJones 3y ago

I use Apple products and I am in no way, in any sense of the word, "rich". I'm not even close. And why is it that someone tries to show how expensive Apple products are, they always list the highest end, most tricked out product? "oh, a Macbook Pro costs over $5000 dollars, but you can get a Windows laptop for only $450!" I'm typing this on a desktop Mac that costs less than a typical video card on a PC. But hey, I'm "rich".