10 ms·

Interesting how the immigration policies are the biggest contributing factor to this situation. At least now that the centre-right took the government and is tr

Interesting how the immigration policies are the biggest contributing factor to this situation. At least now that the centre-right took the government and is trying to fight against the outcome of those policies, the opposition agrees with their proposed measures. Meanwhile in other countries (e.g. Spain) the left don't want to face the very same issues (although we don't have that many fireguns related crimes, in our case the weapons of choice are usually machetes, knives, etc...)

jacooper 3y ago
Its depends on how its handled. Germany took even more immigrants, and it doesnt have the same issues, at least not to the same degree.
- NDizzle 3y ago
  More immigrants per capita?
- rozularen 3y ago
  I think the biggest difference is that for immigrants, Germany is seen as country where one can prosper, have a good job and a nice car because of its strong economy while Spain is seen as a paradise where you can live a decent life on government subsidies because of its policies, also the weather and culture. Edit: I must add that here in Spain we have the "okupa" problem where people occupy unused houses for years sometimes before a judge rules they should be taken out.
  - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
    Squatting is also a problem in France, but in addition it is strongly supported by mainstream political parties. This creates tension not only with the squatters, but also with their partisans.
- skippyboxedhero 3y ago
  Because Germany took different immigrants. Sweden was one of the countries which specifically took the refugees that other countries didn't want: Somalian, Eritrean, Syrian, Afghan, etc. If you look at other countries that have taken people from these countries, the same thing has happened but at a lower level. Sweden went as far as it is possible to go, they let anyone in and gave them citizenship immediately...this is the result, that is why they have had particularly severe problems. I will also gently point out...the recent wave of illegal immigration into Europe is coming from these countries again. Other countries are represented, some of these have their own issues but the specific issues with people from one or two of the countries above (I won't name which) are well-known and exist in every other country they have ended up (in the case of one, this has been going on since the mid-90s...the reason why no-one wanted them before is because countries have tried to take them before...and it didn't work, Sweden had very specific beliefs about integration that guided their decisions...and they turned out to be very wrong).
  - user_named 3y ago
    This is exactly it. Sweden took in the lowest quality immigrants, that did not even have id, lied about which country they're from and many were convicted criminals.
- temporarara 3y ago
  They definitely have issues with immigrant gangs though, and they are looking for solutions, see for example: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-crime-deportations/a-66467396 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-crime-deportations/a-66467396 There it is said that only a third of the gang members are German citizens. They've got like 100 gangs that matter there, and pretty much all are Turkish (Kurds too, not that specific ethnicities matter too much but the point here is that they are immigrant gangs and they are a direct result of the immigrant policies).
- nradov 3y ago
  Really? Quite a few Germans seem to regret that now. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53517022 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53517022 https://www.dw.com/en/new-years-eve-in-cologne-5-years-after-the-mass-assaults/a-56073007 https://www.dw.com/en/new-years-eve-in-cologne-5-years-after...
DavidVoid 3y ago
The main issue is integration, not immigration. City planning and free school choice plays a big part imo. If most immigrants from poor countries end up living in the same areas and having their kids go to the same schools as each other, then you'll inevitably end up with situations like this. And I'm sure the archaic drug legislation and a few details about the court system play a part too.
- landoftheice 3y ago
  [dead]
- Red_Tarsius 3y ago
  Can you point to any place where integration between widly different cultures worked on the long term? One place where mass immigration didn't result in the erosion of social trust, safety concerns and political divide through ethnic lines?
  - twelve40 3y ago
    well, arguably the USofA seems to be doing a relatively decent job managing a multitude of cultures over a few centuries... given that at some point, almost everyone was an immigrant (after a number of violent events removed almost all of the locals)
    - thegrim33 3y ago
      The US was over 80% white, often over 90% white, for the vast majority of its existence [0]. It was relatively unified in race and culture for the last 400 years. Only since the 1960s/1970s was the immigration floodgates truly opened and the demographics significantly changed. If anything, the way things have been falling apart in the last 50 years is directly contrary to increased diversity of culture being beneficial. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States#/media/File:Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...
Legogris 3y ago
> Interesting how the immigration policies are the biggest contributing factor to this situation. If you listen to the PM, yes. Another major factor (actually the biggest?) is Sweden's among European countries relatively unique hardline and boneheaded stance on recreational drugs including cannabis, which has contributed to growth and strengthening of criminal gangs who fund themselves and maintain territory by drug trade, simultaneously silently pushing otherwise law-abiding citizens into the criminal sphere, furthering the split into parallel societies. Basically the opposite of the Portugal approach. There are arguments that the law on sex work (buying sexual services is a crime; selling is not) has been having similar effect. If you believe it was naivete behind the open immigration policy, well, you could still say the same here.
- BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  The drug laws in France are the same if not more conservative (they include denial for medical use of cannabis for instance). Same for euthanasia. At least we have a strong abortion law thanks to Ms Veil and others that fought for it in the 70's.
  - Legogris 3y ago
    I am pretty sure that even in France, getting caught with possession of <1g of cannabis while nowhere near a vehicle won't be very likely to get you detained, fined 1000s of EUR-equivalent and having your drivers license restricted pending you showing up for regular urine samples. This is roughly what you should expect if you get busted carrying one joint in Sweden. Source: Some people around my social circle smoked back in uni.
    - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
      Well, this is not that extreme indeed. Is what you are writing a true expectation, or rather an extreme case?
      - Legogris 3y ago

jacooper 3y ago

Its depends on how its handled. Germany took even more immigrants, and it doesnt have the same issues, at least not to the same degree.

NDizzle 3y ago
More immigrants per capita?
rozularen 3y ago
I think the biggest difference is that for immigrants, Germany is seen as country where one can prosper, have a good job and a nice car because of its strong economy while Spain is seen as a paradise where you can live a decent life on government subsidies because of its policies, also the weather and culture. Edit: I must add that here in Spain we have the "okupa" problem where people occupy unused houses for years sometimes before a judge rules they should be taken out.
- BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  Squatting is also a problem in France, but in addition it is strongly supported by mainstream political parties. This creates tension not only with the squatters, but also with their partisans.
skippyboxedhero 3y ago
Because Germany took different immigrants. Sweden was one of the countries which specifically took the refugees that other countries didn't want: Somalian, Eritrean, Syrian, Afghan, etc. If you look at other countries that have taken people from these countries, the same thing has happened but at a lower level. Sweden went as far as it is possible to go, they let anyone in and gave them citizenship immediately...this is the result, that is why they have had particularly severe problems. I will also gently point out...the recent wave of illegal immigration into Europe is coming from these countries again. Other countries are represented, some of these have their own issues but the specific issues with people from one or two of the countries above (I won't name which) are well-known and exist in every other country they have ended up (in the case of one, this has been going on since the mid-90s...the reason why no-one wanted them before is because countries have tried to take them before...and it didn't work, Sweden had very specific beliefs about integration that guided their decisions...and they turned out to be very wrong).
- user_named 3y ago
  This is exactly it. Sweden took in the lowest quality immigrants, that did not even have id, lied about which country they're from and many were convicted criminals.
temporarara 3y ago
They definitely have issues with immigrant gangs though, and they are looking for solutions, see for example: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-crime-deportations/a-66467396 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-crime-deportations/a-66467396 There it is said that only a third of the gang members are German citizens. They've got like 100 gangs that matter there, and pretty much all are Turkish (Kurds too, not that specific ethnicities matter too much but the point here is that they are immigrant gangs and they are a direct result of the immigrant policies).
nradov 3y ago
Really? Quite a few Germans seem to regret that now. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53517022 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53517022 https://www.dw.com/en/new-years-eve-in-cologne-5-years-after-the-mass-assaults/a-56073007 https://www.dw.com/en/new-years-eve-in-cologne-5-years-after...

DavidVoid 3y ago

The main issue is integration, not immigration. City planning and free school choice plays a big part imo. If most immigrants from poor countries end up living in the same areas and having their kids go to the same schools as each other, then you'll inevitably end up with situations like this. And I'm sure the archaic drug legislation and a few details about the court system play a part too.

landoftheice 3y ago
[dead]
Red_Tarsius 3y ago
Can you point to any place where integration between widly different cultures worked on the long term? One place where mass immigration didn't result in the erosion of social trust, safety concerns and political divide through ethnic lines?
- twelve40 3y ago
  well, arguably the USofA seems to be doing a relatively decent job managing a multitude of cultures over a few centuries... given that at some point, almost everyone was an immigrant (after a number of violent events removed almost all of the locals)
  - thegrim33 3y ago
    The US was over 80% white, often over 90% white, for the vast majority of its existence [0]. It was relatively unified in race and culture for the last 400 years. Only since the 1960s/1970s was the immigration floodgates truly opened and the demographics significantly changed. If anything, the way things have been falling apart in the last 50 years is directly contrary to increased diversity of culture being beneficial. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States#/media/File:Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...

Legogris 3y ago

> Interesting how the immigration policies are the biggest contributing factor to this situation. If you listen to the PM, yes. Another major factor (actually the biggest?) is Sweden's among European countries relatively unique hardline and boneheaded stance on recreational drugs including cannabis, which has contributed to growth and strengthening of criminal gangs who fund themselves and maintain territory by drug trade, simultaneously silently pushing otherwise law-abiding citizens into the criminal sphere, furthering the split into parallel societies. Basically the opposite of the Portugal approach. There are arguments that the law on sex work (buying sexual services is a crime; selling is not) has been having similar effect. If you believe it was naivete behind the open immigration policy, well, you could still say the same here.

BrandoElFollito 3y ago
The drug laws in France are the same if not more conservative (they include denial for medical use of cannabis for instance). Same for euthanasia. At least we have a strong abortion law thanks to Ms Veil and others that fought for it in the 70's.
- Legogris 3y ago
  I am pretty sure that even in France, getting caught with possession of <1g of cannabis while nowhere near a vehicle won't be very likely to get you detained, fined 1000s of EUR-equivalent and having your drivers license restricted pending you showing up for regular urine samples. This is roughly what you should expect if you get busted carrying one joint in Sweden. Source: Some people around my social circle smoked back in uni.
  - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
    Well, this is not that extreme indeed. Is what you are writing a true expectation, or rather an extreme case?
    - Legogris 3y ago