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Another word of warning - don't take the advice of anyone who claims to know what they're talking about. I remember listening to a podcast where Kevin Rose said

Another word of warning - don't take the advice of anyone who claims to know what they're talking about. I remember listening to a podcast where Kevin Rose said that people sitting with crypto in wallets were idiots when they can put it in BlockFi and earn interest at no risk. I was amazed. It seemed so obvious. I put my money in BlockFi and after a few weeks fortunately changed my mind. It seemed too easy. BlockFi are currently going through bankruptcy proceedings.

jjoonathan 3y ago
After dabbling in the technical side, I decided to wind down the wallet files that I probably wouldn't do a good job of securely storing and put everything in the biggest exchange instead. 10 years later, I'm still waiting on MtGox bankruptcy proceedings :o)
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  I don't really understand Japanese bankruptcy law, but the final notice I saw was that the amount of funds missing is insignificant. My guess is that something about the legal system there is allowing them to delay paying out the funds more or less indefinitely.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Naw, kinda the opposite. They “found” a significant amount of missing bitcoin. Then bitcoin skyrocketed in value. Technically the creditors losses are “crystallized” at the time of bankruptcy and if the organization wanted to push it, could make the creditors whole and end up with the remaining value. Sometimes this happens in real life where equity holders end up getting some payments post-bankruptcy liquidation. As I understand it, mtgox is going to go through a procedure to pay out the excess to the creditors anyway, which probably further delayed things. Many bankruptcies take a significant period of time. Even Bernie Madoff creditors continue to receive distributions from the estate.
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
      well thanks for the explanation. I see now there is a claim that payments commence by Oct 2023. So we will wait and see about that one.
- nico 3y ago
  You are very patient Everyone I know who had funds on MtGox at the time of bankruptcy, ended up selling their claim (most to Fortress), for a pretty good amount, in fact more in USD than what their BTCs were worth at the time of bankruptcy
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Who ended up better off? The claim seller or claim buyer? (Obviously there’s an element of risk and discounting of future returns, but I’m sure the claims buyers know what they’re doing. They’re not in the business of taking Ls)
    - nico 3y ago
      It all depends If the people that sold needed the money, they are for sure better off, even if they got less money than waiting Additionally, it’s impossible to know if they invested it in something that gave them better returns than waiting Fortress might know what they are doing, but for sure they can’t exactly predict the price of BTC or that there would be a pandemic and the behavior of the markets during the pandemic Potentially someone that sold in late 2019 and put their money into TSLA, NVIDIA or even Moderna, might have made more money than and unknown figure they could get when the bankruptcy proceedings finally pay out. If they exit(ed) the market at the right time I think it’s a good trade for both sides, no need to have a winner and a loser
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        Sure, but you're assuming that the claim seller knew more about future average returns than the buyer. Chances are they didn't, or even if they did, took too little after the buyer's commission and still lost out. But hey, sometimes the hedge fund has a better job acquiring "dumb" money and pays more than claims are worth just so they can get their cut.
tootie 3y ago
Crypto remains utter gibberish. There are no fundamentals. Supply and demand are both pure imagination. It exists in a market of pure herd mentality. It was created as currency and never as an investment asset. Any gains or losses in value are purely coincidental.
- greiskul 3y ago
  Yup. If you read Bitcoins white paper again, you realize that it proposes a micro transaction system for the web. And it has failed absolutely as that. And without a natural demand for it, the speculation around it is gibberish. It is waiting for a future that nobody, not even the people that have bought in, is working for. Since how can people HODL a "currency", and at the same time that currency attain status as a common mean of exchange? And it's usage as a hedge or value conservation is even more laughable. During an economic crisis, people are looking for work, for ways of putting food on the table. Assets like gold maintain their value due to the natural demand from jewelry and industry. Nobody is looking for internet funny money during a crisis. If you look at it's price history graph, it basically follows the stock market hype and fear periods, without any of the fundamentals of companies actually producing value that sustains stocks in the long run.
  - tootie 3y ago
    If you look at criticism from the early days of bitcoin, the economic perspective was their model would instantly breed deflation. That's essentially what's happened. A currency that massively increases in value is the exact opposite of what you ever want to happen to a currency.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    > Nobody is looking for internet funny money during a crisis. Ransomware victims would disagree!
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    It has not failed for web microtransactions -- goin just fine for darkweb hosting, drugs, and other shadyness. admittedly its mostly Monero at this point...

jjoonathan 3y ago

After dabbling in the technical side, I decided to wind down the wallet files that I probably wouldn't do a good job of securely storing and put everything in the biggest exchange instead. 10 years later, I'm still waiting on MtGox bankruptcy proceedings :o)

sidewndr46 3y ago
I don't really understand Japanese bankruptcy law, but the final notice I saw was that the amount of funds missing is insignificant. My guess is that something about the legal system there is allowing them to delay paying out the funds more or less indefinitely.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Naw, kinda the opposite. They “found” a significant amount of missing bitcoin. Then bitcoin skyrocketed in value. Technically the creditors losses are “crystallized” at the time of bankruptcy and if the organization wanted to push it, could make the creditors whole and end up with the remaining value. Sometimes this happens in real life where equity holders end up getting some payments post-bankruptcy liquidation. As I understand it, mtgox is going to go through a procedure to pay out the excess to the creditors anyway, which probably further delayed things. Many bankruptcies take a significant period of time. Even Bernie Madoff creditors continue to receive distributions from the estate.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    well thanks for the explanation. I see now there is a claim that payments commence by Oct 2023. So we will wait and see about that one.
nico 3y ago
You are very patient Everyone I know who had funds on MtGox at the time of bankruptcy, ended up selling their claim (most to Fortress), for a pretty good amount, in fact more in USD than what their BTCs were worth at the time of bankruptcy
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Who ended up better off? The claim seller or claim buyer? (Obviously there’s an element of risk and discounting of future returns, but I’m sure the claims buyers know what they’re doing. They’re not in the business of taking Ls)
  - nico 3y ago
    It all depends If the people that sold needed the money, they are for sure better off, even if they got less money than waiting Additionally, it’s impossible to know if they invested it in something that gave them better returns than waiting Fortress might know what they are doing, but for sure they can’t exactly predict the price of BTC or that there would be a pandemic and the behavior of the markets during the pandemic Potentially someone that sold in late 2019 and put their money into TSLA, NVIDIA or even Moderna, might have made more money than and unknown figure they could get when the bankruptcy proceedings finally pay out. If they exit(ed) the market at the right time I think it’s a good trade for both sides, no need to have a winner and a loser
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      Sure, but you're assuming that the claim seller knew more about future average returns than the buyer. Chances are they didn't, or even if they did, took too little after the buyer's commission and still lost out. But hey, sometimes the hedge fund has a better job acquiring "dumb" money and pays more than claims are worth just so they can get their cut.

tootie 3y ago

Crypto remains utter gibberish. There are no fundamentals. Supply and demand are both pure imagination. It exists in a market of pure herd mentality. It was created as currency and never as an investment asset. Any gains or losses in value are purely coincidental.

greiskul 3y ago
Yup. If you read Bitcoins white paper again, you realize that it proposes a micro transaction system for the web. And it has failed absolutely as that. And without a natural demand for it, the speculation around it is gibberish. It is waiting for a future that nobody, not even the people that have bought in, is working for. Since how can people HODL a "currency", and at the same time that currency attain status as a common mean of exchange? And it's usage as a hedge or value conservation is even more laughable. During an economic crisis, people are looking for work, for ways of putting food on the table. Assets like gold maintain their value due to the natural demand from jewelry and industry. Nobody is looking for internet funny money during a crisis. If you look at it's price history graph, it basically follows the stock market hype and fear periods, without any of the fundamentals of companies actually producing value that sustains stocks in the long run.
- tootie 3y ago
  If you look at criticism from the early days of bitcoin, the economic perspective was their model would instantly breed deflation. That's essentially what's happened. A currency that massively increases in value is the exact opposite of what you ever want to happen to a currency.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  > Nobody is looking for internet funny money during a crisis. Ransomware victims would disagree!
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  It has not failed for web microtransactions -- goin just fine for darkweb hosting, drugs, and other shadyness. admittedly its mostly Monero at this point...