6 ms·

Not stealing, but as I said, stealing from one's friends. Most cultures frown on that.

epups 3y ago
If you had to qualify it with "most", then it isn't universal. Moreover, I don't think morality is what applies only to your friends.
- gadflyinyoureye 3y ago
  Well the qualifier could be the writer’s way of stating that he or she lacks knowledge of every society. After a brief search I can find no society that approved of stealing from peers.
  - naniwaduni 3y ago
    People from which it's okay to steal aren't peers.
    - Supermancho 3y ago
      “good artists borrow, great artists steal.” - Pablo Picasso “You believe stealing is wrong, but if your family was starving and could not afford bread, wouldn’t you say it’s okay to steal a loaf to feed them?” - A.J. Darkholme etc. The basis of a morality may start with a simple set of propositions. Life ensures that the unknown unknowns that you encounter morphs them into an ever-evolving ruleset.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - momirlan 3y ago
    in a commune there is no concept of "stealing" because there is no private property
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      In communes without private property, there is generally still personal property. Taking somebody's personal property is theft if you had reason to believe their feelings would be hurt by the taking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_versus_private_property https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_ver... Even communal property may be stolen if there are any sort of expectations about one person having temporary exclusive use of that item. Maybe you and I live in a cult compound where literally everything is communally owned, even the cult robes on our backs. Now suppose that when you step into the shower, I take the robe you were wearing, the clean robe you were planning to wear, and all the communally owned towels as well. I have violated your reasonable expectation to have temporary use of those communal items. I have therefore stolen from you. Maybe our cult has a different word for it, but fundamentally I have stolen from you because I've deprived you of something you had a reasonable expectation to possess.
ars 3y ago
I can easily imagine a culture where it's only OK to steal from friends. Because a friend would "obviously" be happy for you to have it, but it's not OK to steal from anyone else. Like how it's OK to prank a friend, but not a stranger - but the friend doesn't actually want to be pranked (i.e. the friend does not want to be stolen from).
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  > I can easily imagine a culture where it's only OK to steal from friends. It is easy to imagine contexts in which taking something from your friend is morally permissible, because in that context you know the other person won't mind that you've done so. But because they don't mind, it's no longer stealing. Taking becomes stealing when you should reasonably expect the other person to feel hurt by the taking. Hurtfully taking things from your friends is universally immoral in all cultures, but different cultures have different expectations and standards for what kind of taking causes hurt feelings.
pixl97 3y ago
Take the idea of a post-singularity culture. To an individual in this society (if the idea of individualism still existed) have a moral framework anywhere near ours? What is stealing if I can push a button and said object can be easily duplicated? Does pain exist if I can turn if off an the level of my brain? Is death horrible if I can reconstitute myself from a backup? The idea of a universal set of morals, and that humanity could even come close to finding them at our point in development is just not something I believe in happening. We are enslaved to our emotions and bound to our physical meat.

If you had to qualify it with "most", then it isn't universal. Moreover, I don't think morality is what applies only to your friends.

gadflyinyoureye 3y ago
Well the qualifier could be the writer’s way of stating that he or she lacks knowledge of every society. After a brief search I can find no society that approved of stealing from peers.
- naniwaduni 3y ago
  People from which it's okay to steal aren't peers.
  - Supermancho 3y ago
    “good artists borrow, great artists steal.” - Pablo Picasso “You believe stealing is wrong, but if your family was starving and could not afford bread, wouldn’t you say it’s okay to steal a loaf to feed them?” - A.J. Darkholme etc. The basis of a morality may start with a simple set of propositions. Life ensures that the unknown unknowns that you encounter morphs them into an ever-evolving ruleset.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- momirlan 3y ago
  in a commune there is no concept of "stealing" because there is no private property
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    In communes without private property, there is generally still personal property. Taking somebody's personal property is theft if you had reason to believe their feelings would be hurt by the taking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_versus_private_property https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_ver... Even communal property may be stolen if there are any sort of expectations about one person having temporary exclusive use of that item. Maybe you and I live in a cult compound where literally everything is communally owned, even the cult robes on our backs. Now suppose that when you step into the shower, I take the robe you were wearing, the clean robe you were planning to wear, and all the communally owned towels as well. I have violated your reasonable expectation to have temporary use of those communal items. I have therefore stolen from you. Maybe our cult has a different word for it, but fundamentally I have stolen from you because I've deprived you of something you had a reasonable expectation to possess.

ars 3y ago

I can easily imagine a culture where it's only OK to steal from friends. Because a friend would "obviously" be happy for you to have it, but it's not OK to steal from anyone else. Like how it's OK to prank a friend, but not a stranger - but the friend doesn't actually want to be pranked (i.e. the friend does not want to be stolen from).

mcpackieh 3y ago
> I can easily imagine a culture where it's only OK to steal from friends. It is easy to imagine contexts in which taking something from your friend is morally permissible, because in that context you know the other person won't mind that you've done so. But because they don't mind, it's no longer stealing. Taking becomes stealing when you should reasonably expect the other person to feel hurt by the taking. Hurtfully taking things from your friends is universally immoral in all cultures, but different cultures have different expectations and standards for what kind of taking causes hurt feelings.

pixl97 3y ago

Take the idea of a post-singularity culture. To an individual in this society (if the idea of individualism still existed) have a moral framework anywhere near ours? What is stealing if I can push a button and said object can be easily duplicated? Does pain exist if I can turn if off an the level of my brain? Is death horrible if I can reconstitute myself from a backup? The idea of a universal set of morals, and that humanity could even come close to finding them at our point in development is just not something I believe in happening. We are enslaved to our emotions and bound to our physical meat.