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There's no general responsibility to not "present" things "actively harmful to democracy". And there's nothing uniquely American about that. I'm a European livi

by nvm0n2 3y ago

There's no general responsibility to not "present" things "actively harmful to democracy". And there's nothing uniquely American about that. I'm a European living in Europe and there's no such obligation or responsibility here either. Please don't insinuate there is. That's especially important because a significant chunk of the left no longer use the dictionary definition of the word democracy, so there isn't any chance of agreement on what it means. They seem to be using it either to mean the unelected institutions (courts, media, academia, civil service agencies) or sometimes to mean left wing policies. So if a conservative politician wins an election then that's a "threat to democracy", example: The AfD has achieved top municipal office for the first time in Sonneberg, Thuringia [...snip...] Green Party leader Ricarda Lang has interpreted the result as a warning to all supporters of democracy. [...snip...] Robert Sesselmann’s win is an alarm signal for democracy, said Martin Schirdewan, co-chairman of the Left Party https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/afd-sonneberg-reaktionen-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/afd-sonneberg-...

SilverBirch 3y ago
In the US there is specifically Section 230 - which legally absolves X of any liability from user generated content. That is unique to the US, in Europe, social media companies don't enjoy those same legal protections and field all sorts of requests for removal of content from government. As a European living in Europe, presumably you're aware of the passage of the Digital Services Act which puts legal requirements on large platforms to have systems in place to tackle disinformation.
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  Isn't Community Notes a system to tackle disinformation?
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  I'm aware of the DSA but fortunately am not required to follow it, being in one of the parts of Europe that's not a part of the EU. Section 230 doesn't have anything in it about being "actively harmful to democracy" so what's your point?
  - azernik 3y ago
    Mentioning Section 230 is to back up the "To be honest it's a pretty uniquely American view..." part of the GP comment.
    - nvm0n2 3y ago
      It's really not that American. Americans didn't invent the concept of free speech, not by a long shot. The idea that it's somehow "un-European" to allow people to say things "harmful to democracy" is wrong legally and culturally, but the cultural affinity so many Europeans have for authoritarianism is exactly the reason Europe has no tech industry to speak of.
      - azernik 3y ago
        Americans did not invent the concept of free speech, but they take it to an extreme that is extremely far out of the mainstream in Europe and always has been.
        nvm0n2 3y ago
        It's clearly not that extreme, given that Europeans overwhelmingly express strong preferences for American-built communications and information tech.
        azernik 3y ago
        They don't have that preference because of American free speech principles; they have that preference because software is generally better in the States and there aren't European competitors. You can make all kinds of arguments about what the root causes of that are, but none of those are the actual reason Europeans use US social networks.
        nvm0n2 3y ago
        There aren't meaningful gaps in software quality here, most of the "American" services and sites are half built by European workers anyway. There aren't competitors for a bunch of reasons, but the far more restrictive EU laws around speech are a big one. Europeans don't actually like or support those laws which is why they then flock to platforms that aren't so beholden to them.
- pauldenton 3y ago
  So how equally has Digital Services Act been used to tackle Disinformation? Twitter community notes seem to equally applied left or right. Are Europeans equally suing people who say the vaccine is making kids transgender as equally as they are punishing misinformers who said the State only needed 14 days to slow the spread or that if you get vaccinated with both doses you can no longer catch Covid?

by nvm0n2 3y ago

SilverBirch 3y ago

In the US there is specifically Section 230 - which legally absolves X of any liability from user generated content. That is unique to the US, in Europe, social media companies don't enjoy those same legal protections and field all sorts of requests for removal of content from government. As a European living in Europe, presumably you're aware of the passage of the Digital Services Act which puts legal requirements on large platforms to have systems in place to tackle disinformation.

unsupp0rted 3y ago
Isn't Community Notes a system to tackle disinformation?
nvm0n2 3y ago
I'm aware of the DSA but fortunately am not required to follow it, being in one of the parts of Europe that's not a part of the EU. Section 230 doesn't have anything in it about being "actively harmful to democracy" so what's your point?
- azernik 3y ago
  Mentioning Section 230 is to back up the "To be honest it's a pretty uniquely American view..." part of the GP comment.
  - nvm0n2 3y ago
    It's really not that American. Americans didn't invent the concept of free speech, not by a long shot. The idea that it's somehow "un-European" to allow people to say things "harmful to democracy" is wrong legally and culturally, but the cultural affinity so many Europeans have for authoritarianism is exactly the reason Europe has no tech industry to speak of.
    - azernik 3y ago
      Americans did not invent the concept of free speech, but they take it to an extreme that is extremely far out of the mainstream in Europe and always has been.
      - nvm0n2 3y ago
        It's clearly not that extreme, given that Europeans overwhelmingly express strong preferences for American-built communications and information tech.
        azernik 3y ago
        They don't have that preference because of American free speech principles; they have that preference because software is generally better in the States and there aren't European competitors. You can make all kinds of arguments about what the root causes of that are, but none of those are the actual reason Europeans use US social networks.
        nvm0n2 3y ago
        There aren't meaningful gaps in software quality here, most of the "American" services and sites are half built by European workers anyway. There aren't competitors for a bunch of reasons, but the far more restrictive EU laws around speech are a big one. Europeans don't actually like or support those laws which is why they then flock to platforms that aren't so beholden to them.
pauldenton 3y ago
So how equally has Digital Services Act been used to tackle Disinformation? Twitter community notes seem to equally applied left or right. Are Europeans equally suing people who say the vaccine is making kids transgender as equally as they are punishing misinformers who said the State only needed 14 days to slow the spread or that if you get vaccinated with both doses you can no longer catch Covid?