7 ms·

McMurdo bans alcohol after harassment claims

27 points by maxboone 3y ago

dharmab 3y ago
Alcohol is not banned. Purchase of alcohol at bars is. Employees can still buy alcohol at the store.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
spicebox 3y ago
“They will still be able to bring their own alcohol to drink at the bars … The current alcohol ration allows Antarctic workers to buy up to the equivalent of 18 beers each week, or three bottles of wine, or a 750 milliliter (25 ounce) bottle of spirits.“ It seems like they’ll still be able to get plenty of alcohol
- petesergeant 3y ago
  Also: > the NSF told the AP the changes involving alcohol were related to morale and welfare at the base, and were not aimed at preventing sexual harassment or assault > “Alcohol can obviously blur the lines of consent, there’s that issue at play, but overwhelmingly, sexual assault has occurred even when neither party has been consuming alcohol, as was the case with me,” Sorensen said. “So it’s definitely not going to eliminate the problem.” > “For example, my incident took place during work hours, at a job site, no alcohol involved, and was corroborated and reported through official channels,” Barquist wrote So two separate victims saying their assaults were nothing to do with alcohol, and the NSF also saying their changes to alcohol aren't due to the harassment claims.
- datameta 3y ago
  Which, even to my college-aged binge-drinking former self, would be enough for getting hammered three times a week or blind drunk twice. That's a helluva lot of alcohol for a week's consumption. Maybe not chronic alcoholism tier but nevertheless... I wish the world would cross over to responsible cannabis use as a replacement more quickly. No offense to those who still drink alcohol (I can't for reasons not related to addiction) but the fact that this low-dose poison is still the world's most consumed psychoactive substance alongside caffeine while LLMs are available on our phones, (pseudo)self-driving cars are on the roads, virtual meetings on our computers, and reusable rockets in space feels almost anachronistic. I wish alcohol would go the way of the cigarette. But all this is not to say that it is solely responsible for the behavior of those men in Antarctica.
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    I think you have low tolerance for alcohol. Sure, in a single day, I would get hammered too. But spread over a weekend? not a problem.
    - datameta 3y ago
      Not that this is a relevant point but I assure you my tolerance was above average at least. Drinking as an adult looked more like 1-3 in one sitting instead of 5-10 in college. The latter is problematic, the former is relatively ok if not every day.
datavirtue 3y ago
It's happening because the perpetrators feel empowered and free of reprecussions. Put people in the jungle they start acting like apes.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  This behavior isn’t unique to McMurdo. People are always apes, it’s a combination of potential consequences and self regulation that keeps them mostly in check. Hard to take the ape out of the human.
suprjami 3y ago
This conduct is such a disappointment. These scientists are supposed to be some of the greatest people in their fields, working in the most desired jobs, in a unique beautiful place which costs normal people the price of a car to even visit briefly. And what do they do with their special privileged time in this amazing place? Sexually harass women. Throw them in the goddamn frozen ocean.
- neongodzilla 3y ago
  It's almost like it's a pervasive issue that can be found in just about every group. It's far more surprising when sexual harassment DOESN'T occur.
- dharmab 3y ago
  Not everyone at McMurdo is a research scientist. Many are contractors maintaining and supporting the base or constructing new equipment.
  - foobarbecue 3y ago
    Not just many -- the majority. And compared to the beakers (scientists like me) the difference in the rules the contractors are subject to and the way those rules are enforced is stark.
- juanani 3y ago
  [dead]
- jadbox 3y ago
  I have seen many great people, with intellect far greater than mine, become a complete embarrassment to themselves and their employer because of alcohol. I once worked with one fellow for a decade who was an an absolute gem in the office and they rarely drank, but would turn consistently turn into an obnoxious gremlin the moment they had more than two beers. I can't say this enough: alcohol is a poison to your health and soul.
  - 3y ago
foogazi 3y ago
> An investigation by The Associated Press last month uncovered a pattern of women who said their claims of harassment or assault were minimized by their employers What does this have to do with alcohol? Were their employers drunk ?
- foobarbecue 3y ago
  Nothing, according to the article: The AP sent the NSF a detailed list of questions about its investigation in early June and has continued to correspond since, including asking for any planned changes to address sexual harassment and assault. The NSF never listed any planned changes to alcohol policies. “Because these changes are related to morale and welfare and not sexual assault/harassment prevention, we did not mention this program initiative in our previous response,” the NSF said in a statement.
- orwin 3y ago
  I think they're not wrong on this particular case sadly. Second hand source, but I know a biologist who worked on the Kerguelen for two years (on pingouins colonies). It's basically the same as the international Antarctica base. The stories he told me about the rampant alcoholism, the orgies, the lax attitude... He had to go out regularly during the 'summer', when the winds allowed it, to get film back and install new film/clean cameras (it was in the early 90s). It was impossible to go alone, too dangerous, but it was really hard to find personnel to accompany him the first year because missing on alcohol was hard for most people. His second year a woman who didn't know about the activities stayed on the base during the 6 'no contact' months, and her only escape was getting out as much as possible on outside mission (which he appreciated as he collected enough data to come back instead of doing his 3rd year).

27 points by maxboone 3y ago

dharmab 3y ago

Alcohol is not banned. Purchase of alcohol at bars is. Employees can still buy alcohol at the store.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

spicebox 3y ago

“They will still be able to bring their own alcohol to drink at the bars … The current alcohol ration allows Antarctic workers to buy up to the equivalent of 18 beers each week, or three bottles of wine, or a 750 milliliter (25 ounce) bottle of spirits.“ It seems like they’ll still be able to get plenty of alcohol

petesergeant 3y ago
Also: > the NSF told the AP the changes involving alcohol were related to morale and welfare at the base, and were not aimed at preventing sexual harassment or assault > “Alcohol can obviously blur the lines of consent, there’s that issue at play, but overwhelmingly, sexual assault has occurred even when neither party has been consuming alcohol, as was the case with me,” Sorensen said. “So it’s definitely not going to eliminate the problem.” > “For example, my incident took place during work hours, at a job site, no alcohol involved, and was corroborated and reported through official channels,” Barquist wrote So two separate victims saying their assaults were nothing to do with alcohol, and the NSF also saying their changes to alcohol aren't due to the harassment claims.
datameta 3y ago
Which, even to my college-aged binge-drinking former self, would be enough for getting hammered three times a week or blind drunk twice. That's a helluva lot of alcohol for a week's consumption. Maybe not chronic alcoholism tier but nevertheless... I wish the world would cross over to responsible cannabis use as a replacement more quickly. No offense to those who still drink alcohol (I can't for reasons not related to addiction) but the fact that this low-dose poison is still the world's most consumed psychoactive substance alongside caffeine while LLMs are available on our phones, (pseudo)self-driving cars are on the roads, virtual meetings on our computers, and reusable rockets in space feels almost anachronistic. I wish alcohol would go the way of the cigarette. But all this is not to say that it is solely responsible for the behavior of those men in Antarctica.
- elzbardico 3y ago
  I think you have low tolerance for alcohol. Sure, in a single day, I would get hammered too. But spread over a weekend? not a problem.
  - datameta 3y ago
    Not that this is a relevant point but I assure you my tolerance was above average at least. Drinking as an adult looked more like 1-3 in one sitting instead of 5-10 in college. The latter is problematic, the former is relatively ok if not every day.

datavirtue 3y ago

It's happening because the perpetrators feel empowered and free of reprecussions. Put people in the jungle they start acting like apes.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
This behavior isn’t unique to McMurdo. People are always apes, it’s a combination of potential consequences and self regulation that keeps them mostly in check. Hard to take the ape out of the human.

suprjami 3y ago

This conduct is such a disappointment. These scientists are supposed to be some of the greatest people in their fields, working in the most desired jobs, in a unique beautiful place which costs normal people the price of a car to even visit briefly. And what do they do with their special privileged time in this amazing place? Sexually harass women. Throw them in the goddamn frozen ocean.

neongodzilla 3y ago
It's almost like it's a pervasive issue that can be found in just about every group. It's far more surprising when sexual harassment DOESN'T occur.
dharmab 3y ago
Not everyone at McMurdo is a research scientist. Many are contractors maintaining and supporting the base or constructing new equipment.
- foobarbecue 3y ago
  Not just many -- the majority. And compared to the beakers (scientists like me) the difference in the rules the contractors are subject to and the way those rules are enforced is stark.
juanani 3y ago
[dead]
jadbox 3y ago
I have seen many great people, with intellect far greater than mine, become a complete embarrassment to themselves and their employer because of alcohol. I once worked with one fellow for a decade who was an an absolute gem in the office and they rarely drank, but would turn consistently turn into an obnoxious gremlin the moment they had more than two beers. I can't say this enough: alcohol is a poison to your health and soul.
- 3y ago

foogazi 3y ago

> An investigation by The Associated Press last month uncovered a pattern of women who said their claims of harassment or assault were minimized by their employers What does this have to do with alcohol? Were their employers drunk ?

foobarbecue 3y ago
Nothing, according to the article: The AP sent the NSF a detailed list of questions about its investigation in early June and has continued to correspond since, including asking for any planned changes to address sexual harassment and assault. The NSF never listed any planned changes to alcohol policies. “Because these changes are related to morale and welfare and not sexual assault/harassment prevention, we did not mention this program initiative in our previous response,” the NSF said in a statement.
orwin 3y ago
I think they're not wrong on this particular case sadly. Second hand source, but I know a biologist who worked on the Kerguelen for two years (on pingouins colonies). It's basically the same as the international Antarctica base. The stories he told me about the rampant alcoholism, the orgies, the lax attitude... He had to go out regularly during the 'summer', when the winds allowed it, to get film back and install new film/clean cameras (it was in the early 90s). It was impossible to go alone, too dangerous, but it was really hard to find personnel to accompany him the first year because missing on alcohol was hard for most people. His second year a woman who didn't know about the activities stayed on the base during the 6 'no contact' months, and her only escape was getting out as much as possible on outside mission (which he appreciated as he collected enough data to come back instead of doing his 3rd year).