3 ms·

The semi-subsidized Deutschlandticket, valid on all transit that isn't a high-speed or mid-speed long distance train, is 49 EUR/mo, which I assume is less than

The semi-subsidized Deutschlandticket, valid on all transit that isn't a high-speed or mid-speed long distance train, is 49 EUR/mo, which I assume is less than it costs to keep someone for a day in minimum security jail. It's a nice subsidy for those of us who were already or were considering paying 60-100/mo for commuter tickets in our regions, but is still too much for a lot of the people who couldn't afford that, much less car ownership, in the first place.

cheschire 3y ago
Imagine if DB went fully public again, and was entirely subsidized. So many other social welfare programs exist in Germany, why isn’t transport one of them anymore? There are lots of smaller programs like Schülertickets, why not just make it universal?
mrparrot 3y ago
Last year there was a brief period where the same ticket cost 9€/month. It was a success but discontinued for mainly political reasons. There is a fund however where you subscribe for 9€ and if you get caught riding without a ticket they pay your fine. Unfortunately, the threat of prison makes this idea not sustainable. But it is a nice display of hacker spirit.
- Arnt 3y ago
  That's misleading wording. The political reason for discontinuing was that it was started as a limited-time, limited-cost experiment. I feel very strongly that states should be able to run limited-time, limited-cost experiment, even big expensive ones like this. That requires that people accept that the experiment ends, and do not expect it to be a new norm. If people expect an experiment to last forever, then it'll be too difficult to agree on what the next experiment may be. Besides, I feel that it's stupid to think that the terms/rules which were chosen quickly for an experiment happen to be the best ones for the long-term future. If anyone says so, I think that implies that they haven't really studied what happened in the experiment.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    While I generally agree with you, I think a lot of anger comes from the amount spent on cars (including for the Dienstwagenprivileg) and roads, versus how much is considered "too expensive" regarding public transport. edit: Thought I’d add some numbers: Dienstwagenprivileg (de-facto tax subsidies for company cars that are used privately) 3.1 - 5+ billion Euro [0] Current Deutschlandticket cost 3 billion Euro [1] Sources are both in German [0]: https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/steuerverguenstigungen-pendlerpauschale-dienstwagenprivileg-diese-subventionen-kosten-den-staat-viele-milliarden/28623450.html https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/steuerverguenstigungen-... [1]: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/mobilitaet/hohe-kosten-durch-deutschlandticket-nahverkehr-wird-in-den-nachsten-jahren-vermutlich-deutlich-teurer-10370548.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/mobilitaet/hohe-koste... edit2: Had the Deutschlandticket cost wrong for a few minutes, 3, not 1.5 billion.
    - MandieD 3y ago
      And Dienstwagenprivileg really is a privilege: it's usually only for people whose jobs involve a lot of driving (sales or consulting) or as a perk for managers.

cheschire 3y ago

Imagine if DB went fully public again, and was entirely subsidized. So many other social welfare programs exist in Germany, why isn’t transport one of them anymore? There are lots of smaller programs like Schülertickets, why not just make it universal?

mrparrot 3y ago

Last year there was a brief period where the same ticket cost 9€/month. It was a success but discontinued for mainly political reasons. There is a fund however where you subscribe for 9€ and if you get caught riding without a ticket they pay your fine. Unfortunately, the threat of prison makes this idea not sustainable. But it is a nice display of hacker spirit.

Arnt 3y ago
That's misleading wording. The political reason for discontinuing was that it was started as a limited-time, limited-cost experiment. I feel very strongly that states should be able to run limited-time, limited-cost experiment, even big expensive ones like this. That requires that people accept that the experiment ends, and do not expect it to be a new norm. If people expect an experiment to last forever, then it'll be too difficult to agree on what the next experiment may be. Besides, I feel that it's stupid to think that the terms/rules which were chosen quickly for an experiment happen to be the best ones for the long-term future. If anyone says so, I think that implies that they haven't really studied what happened in the experiment.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  While I generally agree with you, I think a lot of anger comes from the amount spent on cars (including for the Dienstwagenprivileg) and roads, versus how much is considered "too expensive" regarding public transport. edit: Thought I’d add some numbers: Dienstwagenprivileg (de-facto tax subsidies for company cars that are used privately) 3.1 - 5+ billion Euro [0] Current Deutschlandticket cost 3 billion Euro [1] Sources are both in German [0]: https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/steuerverguenstigungen-pendlerpauschale-dienstwagenprivileg-diese-subventionen-kosten-den-staat-viele-milliarden/28623450.html https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/steuerverguenstigungen-... [1]: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/mobilitaet/hohe-kosten-durch-deutschlandticket-nahverkehr-wird-in-den-nachsten-jahren-vermutlich-deutlich-teurer-10370548.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/mobilitaet/hohe-koste... edit2: Had the Deutschlandticket cost wrong for a few minutes, 3, not 1.5 billion.
  - MandieD 3y ago
    And Dienstwagenprivileg really is a privilege: it's usually only for people whose jobs involve a lot of driving (sales or consulting) or as a perk for managers.