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What exactly is stopping anyone from releasing a binary as Apache 2 and never releasing the source?

jncfhnb 3y ago
You’re welcome to fuck around and find out. Go release llama2 under Apache 2. You’re saying that’s fine right? The answer to your question is that code stored as a binary is not different from code stored as text. Pickled models are code.
- monocasa 3y ago
  > You’re welcome to fuck around and find out. Go release llama2 under Apache 2. You’re saying that’s fine right? You're missing my point. Obviously you can't release someone else's IP under whatever license you see fit. You can release your own binary under Apache 2. Doing so without releasing the source doesn't make it open source despite being an open source license. > The answer to your question is that code stored as a binary is not different from code stored as text. Pickled models are code. I'm not saying it's not code; I'm saying it's not source.
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    It is source. The data used to derive this model is not different from the brain and worldly observations and learnings of the engineers, which are not part of any open source materials.
    - camgunz 3y ago
      What are you talking about "the brain" of the engineers, this is bonkers. Monocasa is being excruciatingly patient with you all but the fact is this was generated with tools and is not a source release, it's a final product or compiled or generated release.
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        It’s bonkers because Monocasa’s take is bonkers. Code generated with tools is still code. This code is the source. The output of the code is the output. Monocasa is failing to understand or perhaps intentionally not understanding the difference. In some contexts a “compiled release” implies an output that is largely immutable for practical purposes. That is not what this is. It’s technically a binary object, but it’s a binary object you can easily unpack to get executable code that you can read and edit. It is a convenient format different from classical text code. The fact that it’s a binary is completely irrelevant. It’s akin to arguing that code that is provided in a zip file cannot be open source. Both because it’s a compressed file and because it doesn’t include the compression algorithm. With that understood, demanding the “tools” that were used to create the code is like asking for the engineers’ notebooks of design thoughts along the way. It has no bearing on your ability to use or modify it. This is not an open source project to make neural nets. This an open source project of a neural net. If someone releases math_funcs.py, you don’t need anything about the tools that were used to create math_funcs.py to consider it open source.
        monocasa 3y ago
        Once again, what do Mistral's engineers edit to do their job? That's the source that when released would constitute 'opeb source'.
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        So if you use tools that generate some boilerplate code as part of your project you need to include the boilerplate generator otherwise it’s not open source?
        monocasa 3y ago
        The model weights aren't boilerplate.
        jncfhnb 3y ago

You’re welcome to fuck around and find out. Go release llama2 under Apache 2. You’re saying that’s fine right? The answer to your question is that code stored as a binary is not different from code stored as text. Pickled models are code.

monocasa 3y ago
> You’re welcome to fuck around and find out. Go release llama2 under Apache 2. You’re saying that’s fine right? You're missing my point. Obviously you can't release someone else's IP under whatever license you see fit. You can release your own binary under Apache 2. Doing so without releasing the source doesn't make it open source despite being an open source license. > The answer to your question is that code stored as a binary is not different from code stored as text. Pickled models are code. I'm not saying it's not code; I'm saying it's not source.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  It is source. The data used to derive this model is not different from the brain and worldly observations and learnings of the engineers, which are not part of any open source materials.
  - camgunz 3y ago
    What are you talking about "the brain" of the engineers, this is bonkers. Monocasa is being excruciatingly patient with you all but the fact is this was generated with tools and is not a source release, it's a final product or compiled or generated release.
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      It’s bonkers because Monocasa’s take is bonkers. Code generated with tools is still code. This code is the source. The output of the code is the output. Monocasa is failing to understand or perhaps intentionally not understanding the difference. In some contexts a “compiled release” implies an output that is largely immutable for practical purposes. That is not what this is. It’s technically a binary object, but it’s a binary object you can easily unpack to get executable code that you can read and edit. It is a convenient format different from classical text code. The fact that it’s a binary is completely irrelevant. It’s akin to arguing that code that is provided in a zip file cannot be open source. Both because it’s a compressed file and because it doesn’t include the compression algorithm. With that understood, demanding the “tools” that were used to create the code is like asking for the engineers’ notebooks of design thoughts along the way. It has no bearing on your ability to use or modify it. This is not an open source project to make neural nets. This an open source project of a neural net. If someone releases math_funcs.py, you don’t need anything about the tools that were used to create math_funcs.py to consider it open source.
      - monocasa 3y ago
        Once again, what do Mistral's engineers edit to do their job? That's the source that when released would constitute 'opeb source'.
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        So if you use tools that generate some boilerplate code as part of your project you need to include the boilerplate generator otherwise it’s not open source?
        monocasa 3y ago
        The model weights aren't boilerplate.
        jncfhnb 3y ago