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I don't see the point of this. This app has a massively disproportionate number of helpers versus those needing assistance. Personally, I've had the app install

I don't see the point of this. This app has a massively disproportionate number of helpers versus those needing assistance. Personally, I've had the app installed for 3 years and never once was asked to assist anyone. Why take the risk of AI providing false info and injuring someone when there's willing and able humans at the ready? Are there a large number of users that feel like they are wasting volunteer time with menial tasks?

fullstop 3y ago
I've had it for five years and have had 8 or 9 calls, so you're right about it being very infrequent. You need to be mindful, at least on Android, that as the application is infrequently used that the OS may remove permissions. This feature can be disabled for Be My Eyes specifically. As for menial tasks, I could definitely see people wanting to use this instead of calling a stranger for more personal matters -- at least initially.
- arbitrarian 3y ago
  Thanks for being a volunteer. For me as a blind person, there still is that sense that I'm bothering someone when I ask for human assistance. I realize that this is not really rational, given how much people seem to appreciate the opportunity to help, but it takes some effort to overcome this in my own brain regardless.
  - Angostura 3y ago
    Both my ans my wife volunteer and both have taken calls. I suspect you can really brighten someone's day by asking for help :) Go at it !
  - fullstop 3y ago
    I wanted to let you know that I _race_ to answer a call as quickly as possible. If I didn't want to be called I never would have installed the app in the first place.
tapoxi 3y ago
I think they care more about being a tech demo and positive press for OpenAI. There's no advantage here, only risk. Not to mention I imagine the carbon cost of pushing this through AI is much higher than just using humans.
- lynx23 3y ago
  You apparently have no personal experience wth needing help. Can you pleas take your AI-angst somewhere else, and leave the best innovation that assistive technologies have ever made, for those to discuss which actually know what they are talking about? This sort of dismissive comment is very anti-social and full of hidden hatred. Projecting your squarrels with a company onto people that really need the help provided. And before you click, I am that pissed because I am blind. You have absolutenly no idea what that means, and what BeMyEyes and BeMyAI did for us. Just go home and hate someone else please.
  - tapoxi 3y ago
    I'm sorry, but after seeing numerous self driving cars plow into people and no clear testing about what's safe when the platform already provides instant access to a live human, I'm really worried about technologies like this.
    - bensonperry 3y ago
      you've seen numerous self driving cars plow into people? i'd love to learn more, could you provide some links?
      - tapoxi 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg
        dmazzoni 3y ago
        That death is of course tragic, but it's important to put it in context. That's the only death of a self-driving car. That's the only one. There was a safety driver with their hands on the wheel, and they didn't see the pedestrian either. And that was an Uber self-driving car, and they've since canceled that project. While incredibly tragic, it's not at all fair to say that self-driving cars are constantly plowing into people. Waymo has driven more than 1 million miles with no human injuries. That's dramatically better than any human driver. Cruise is a close second in number of miles, also with no human injuries.
famouswaffles 3y ago
Strictly speaking, Just because the app had excess helpers doesn't necessarily mean the visually impaired users wouldn't like assistance more often, just that they wouldn't bother others about it.
- kaibee 3y ago
  Probably plenty of times you might want to ask the question specifically to something as impersonal as a machine. ie: how's this itchy spot I've had look?
  - anonylizard 3y ago
    There is tremendous dignity in being self-sufficient. It can be painful and humiliating to depend on others for simple tasks 'normal people' can do.
    - xp84 3y ago
      This is completely relatable, but also, it’s sometimes sad that our brains make us feel this way even at times when it’s truly no burden to help.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    I've noticed that people like to ring up their private purchases at the pharmacy using the self-checkout. I wonder if purchases of such items have increased since the self-checkout option was opened, as people shift their purchases from other pharmacies to this one.
- latexr 3y ago
  > just that they wouldn't bother others about it. Considering how often I’ve seen the complaint from your parent post, it’s quite clear people don’t mind. Quite the opposite, they’d embrace the opportunity. Maybe the people who need assistance don’t realise that, but again, that complaint is quite common. I’d like to help but never signed up specifically because of that surplus. So they had a solution based on humans who are eager to help and are replacing it with an automated system which when mistaken can have disastrous results and cause personal injury. Seems odd to me. A humanised approach is often seen as a positive and this cuts it out without necessity. All that said, I don’t have any insider information. Perhaps the people who need assistant do prefer talking to a machine.
lynx23 3y ago
It is about choice, ... Thanks for being a volunteer. But please dont judge blind users if you apparently can not put yourself in ther shoes... Yes, one reason is that some blind users dont want to waste volunteer time. Another reason is that volunteers are different, but the performance of the image AI is predictable. Another reason is that the AI OCR is fast, can also translate, and, surprise, the text is easier to handle later, for copy&paste. Besides, the performance of the AI describing pictures is, sorry to say, a little bit above what the typical human is willing or capable of doing. IOW, some humans performs worse then the AI. Also, camera access is different from picture taking. I use volunteers when I need more interactive help, but I totally prefer the AI when I just need a single pic.
- imglorp 3y ago
  I was sighted volunteer on a call with a fellow using a treadmill touchscreen. He already knew the menu flow but the UX was dynamic and it wasn't his screen or he could put locator dots on it (Lesson to all designers! Hardware can have physical buttons!). Our interaction was mostly him stating his goal determining the screen's starting state and then where UI elements were, and I would feed back his finger position like "a little left ... no, too far, now up a little ... ok hit it." I think we can imagine an AI could describe the screen, and even find non-language visual elements if asked explicitly, like arrows or turtle vs hare icons etc. But is it ready to have shared context of how people need to interact with that UI?
  - krisoft 3y ago
    > But is it ready to have shared context of how people need to interact with that UI? And what if it is not? Does the AI have to be useful for every single possible use case before it can be used? You are reacting as if they are proposing to remove the already existing venues of help. When I see no sign of that.
  - PoignardAzur 3y ago
    Ehh, give it a few years.

fullstop 3y ago

I've had it for five years and have had 8 or 9 calls, so you're right about it being very infrequent. You need to be mindful, at least on Android, that as the application is infrequently used that the OS may remove permissions. This feature can be disabled for Be My Eyes specifically. As for menial tasks, I could definitely see people wanting to use this instead of calling a stranger for more personal matters -- at least initially.

arbitrarian 3y ago
Thanks for being a volunteer. For me as a blind person, there still is that sense that I'm bothering someone when I ask for human assistance. I realize that this is not really rational, given how much people seem to appreciate the opportunity to help, but it takes some effort to overcome this in my own brain regardless.
- Angostura 3y ago
  Both my ans my wife volunteer and both have taken calls. I suspect you can really brighten someone's day by asking for help :) Go at it !
- fullstop 3y ago
  I wanted to let you know that I _race_ to answer a call as quickly as possible. If I didn't want to be called I never would have installed the app in the first place.

tapoxi 3y ago

I think they care more about being a tech demo and positive press for OpenAI. There's no advantage here, only risk. Not to mention I imagine the carbon cost of pushing this through AI is much higher than just using humans.

lynx23 3y ago
You apparently have no personal experience wth needing help. Can you pleas take your AI-angst somewhere else, and leave the best innovation that assistive technologies have ever made, for those to discuss which actually know what they are talking about? This sort of dismissive comment is very anti-social and full of hidden hatred. Projecting your squarrels with a company onto people that really need the help provided. And before you click, I am that pissed because I am blind. You have absolutenly no idea what that means, and what BeMyEyes and BeMyAI did for us. Just go home and hate someone else please.
- tapoxi 3y ago
  I'm sorry, but after seeing numerous self driving cars plow into people and no clear testing about what's safe when the platform already provides instant access to a live human, I'm really worried about technologies like this.
  - bensonperry 3y ago
    you've seen numerous self driving cars plow into people? i'd love to learn more, could you provide some links?
    - tapoxi 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg
      - dmazzoni 3y ago
        That death is of course tragic, but it's important to put it in context. That's the only death of a self-driving car. That's the only one. There was a safety driver with their hands on the wheel, and they didn't see the pedestrian either. And that was an Uber self-driving car, and they've since canceled that project. While incredibly tragic, it's not at all fair to say that self-driving cars are constantly plowing into people. Waymo has driven more than 1 million miles with no human injuries. That's dramatically better than any human driver. Cruise is a close second in number of miles, also with no human injuries.

famouswaffles 3y ago

Strictly speaking, Just because the app had excess helpers doesn't necessarily mean the visually impaired users wouldn't like assistance more often, just that they wouldn't bother others about it.

kaibee 3y ago
Probably plenty of times you might want to ask the question specifically to something as impersonal as a machine. ie: how's this itchy spot I've had look?
- anonylizard 3y ago
  There is tremendous dignity in being self-sufficient. It can be painful and humiliating to depend on others for simple tasks 'normal people' can do.
  - xp84 3y ago
    This is completely relatable, but also, it’s sometimes sad that our brains make us feel this way even at times when it’s truly no burden to help.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  I've noticed that people like to ring up their private purchases at the pharmacy using the self-checkout. I wonder if purchases of such items have increased since the self-checkout option was opened, as people shift their purchases from other pharmacies to this one.
latexr 3y ago
> just that they wouldn't bother others about it. Considering how often I’ve seen the complaint from your parent post, it’s quite clear people don’t mind. Quite the opposite, they’d embrace the opportunity. Maybe the people who need assistance don’t realise that, but again, that complaint is quite common. I’d like to help but never signed up specifically because of that surplus. So they had a solution based on humans who are eager to help and are replacing it with an automated system which when mistaken can have disastrous results and cause personal injury. Seems odd to me. A humanised approach is often seen as a positive and this cuts it out without necessity. All that said, I don’t have any insider information. Perhaps the people who need assistant do prefer talking to a machine.

lynx23 3y ago

It is about choice, ... Thanks for being a volunteer. But please dont judge blind users if you apparently can not put yourself in ther shoes... Yes, one reason is that some blind users dont want to waste volunteer time. Another reason is that volunteers are different, but the performance of the image AI is predictable. Another reason is that the AI OCR is fast, can also translate, and, surprise, the text is easier to handle later, for copy&paste. Besides, the performance of the AI describing pictures is, sorry to say, a little bit above what the typical human is willing or capable of doing. IOW, some humans performs worse then the AI. Also, camera access is different from picture taking. I use volunteers when I need more interactive help, but I totally prefer the AI when I just need a single pic.

imglorp 3y ago
I was sighted volunteer on a call with a fellow using a treadmill touchscreen. He already knew the menu flow but the UX was dynamic and it wasn't his screen or he could put locator dots on it (Lesson to all designers! Hardware can have physical buttons!). Our interaction was mostly him stating his goal determining the screen's starting state and then where UI elements were, and I would feed back his finger position like "a little left ... no, too far, now up a little ... ok hit it." I think we can imagine an AI could describe the screen, and even find non-language visual elements if asked explicitly, like arrows or turtle vs hare icons etc. But is it ready to have shared context of how people need to interact with that UI?
- krisoft 3y ago
  > But is it ready to have shared context of how people need to interact with that UI? And what if it is not? Does the AI have to be useful for every single possible use case before it can be used? You are reacting as if they are proposing to remove the already existing venues of help. When I see no sign of that.
- PoignardAzur 3y ago
  Ehh, give it a few years.