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>She points to a spurious claim that America “wants to blow up” TSMC, a Taiwanese chipmaker. It originated with a misleading video posted on Douyin, the Chinese

>She points to a spurious claim that America “wants to blow up” TSMC, a Taiwanese chipmaker. It originated with a misleading video posted on Douyin, the Chinese version of TikTok, which featured an American lawmaker appearing to discuss the possibility. This part stood out to me as I've seen this mentioned several times on HN in the past. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=tsmc+blow+up&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

jamesaurichs 3y ago
[flagged]
perihelions 3y ago
The HN discussion isn't related to a "misleading video posted on Douyin"; it's based on accurate news reporting about an academic foreign policy paper (which doesn't speak for US foreign policy). https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/05/taiwan_should_destory_tsmc_paper/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/05/taiwan_should_destory... ("US Army journal's top paper from 2021 says Taiwan should destroy TSMC if China invades") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31012442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31012442 ("Taiwan should destroy TSMC if invaded, suggests US military paper (datacenterdynamics.com)"; 148 comments) Here's extended context of what the OP is discussing, a different thing: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2023/05/12/2003799660 https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2023/05/12/... ("‘Selectively clipped’ video misrepresents US official’s TSMC comments") https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/12/microchips-us-taiwan-strategy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/12/microchip... ("Opinion: Blow up the microchips? What a Taiwan spat says about U.S. strategy") edit: Moulton's quote is at 36:22 here—this is apparently its full and complete context: https://vimeo.com/817736553 https://vimeo.com/817736553 ("The United States and China: Navigating Strategic Competition"; Milken Institute, May 2, 2023)
- arp242 3y ago
  > an academic foreign policy paper (which doesn't speak for the US foreign policy). From two guys who seem to have no real influence. It's basically little more than a blog post. A lot of people say a lot of stuff. Sometimes that's pretty stupid. Sometimes even worse. That's kind of how it works in a free society. The most effective lie is the one with a kernel of truth.
  - dundarious 3y ago
    Rep. Seth Moulton (Mass.) is in government. And if a Chinese military journal said something, the US press would have no qualms saying "Chinese military thinks/wants X". It's on the same level of "disinformation" as 99% of journalism, which is to say, it contains minor sensationalism but has meaningful factual basis, and with minor additional qualifiers, has a reasonable factual basis.
    - arp242 3y ago
      That's just a boring pedantic whataboutism, which is also incorrect as the type of "random people can say random stuff" blue-sky thinking free speech doesn't really exist in China.
      - dundarious 3y ago
        It's not whataboutism (a nebulous and mostly useless category) to talk about common journalistic practice, and how the claim falls well within norms of that practice. So it can hardly be described as "disinformation" except in the sense that it is unflattering information coming from an official enemy.
        dundarious 3y ago
        Just heard Lyle Goldstein (visiting professor at the Watson Institute for International & Public Affairs at Brown, Director for Asian Engagement for Defense Priorities think tank, former professor for 20 years at US Naval War College), say on the Nonzero podcast that in the event of conflict in Taiwan, it's likely that China has securing TSMC facilities and staff as a goal (but not a primary goal), and that the US likely has TSMC on the target list to destroy: https://youtu.be/91QM9W0QAjo?feature=shared&t=1950 https://youtu.be/91QM9W0QAjo?feature=shared&t=1950
WiSaGaN 3y ago
This is said by "Rep. Seth Moulton (Mass.) — one of the Democratic Party’s leading voices on defense": Speaking at a Milken Institute panel in Los Angeles, Moulton said: “One of the interesting ideas that’s been floated out there for deterrence is just making it very clear to the Chinese that if you invade Taiwan, we’re going to blow up TSMC.” He continued: “I just throw that out not because that’s necessarily the best strategy, but because it’s an example of the debate that’s out there. And of course, the Taiwanese really don’t like this idea.” [1] [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/12/microchips-us-taiwan-strategy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/12/microchip...
- SanjayMehta 3y ago
  That’s a bizarre idea. China wants Taiwan because they consider it a renegade province. I doubt they care about one fab.
  - WiSaGaN 3y ago
    It's dangerous strategically for the US to believe that China's motivation is about TSMC. "Taiwan" might not even be just a "CCP" goal. In fact, the "CCP" wouldn't likely survive without making unification a priority.
    - 3seashells 3y ago
      Hate for the outsiders, the traditional authoritarian pressure valve.
  - blackoil 3y ago
    Yeah. China has its stance consistently since 1940s, it is not that they woke up about Taiwan in 2010. It is more of a scorched earth plan. There isn't much of interest to US beyond TSMC. As long as it doesn't fall in hand of China, rest it will be OK to loose.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
snehk 3y ago
Absolutely hilarious that - in an article talking about disinformation - they make the 100% wrong claim that the video is somehow misleading. It exists and the contents are absolutely clear. Claiming that the video is misleading is 100% disinformation. Reminds me of Trudeau who talked about Russian disinformation after they gave a standing ovation to a literal SS soldier. Anything I don't like is a Russian/Chinese fake news campaign and everyone I don't agree with is a Russian/Chinese bot. I can't believe that's what the culture in the west has become. It's really concerning.
- calyth2018 3y ago
  You'd think when Rota, the speaker said that the soldier thought against the Russians in WW2, people would clue in. We have 338 trained seals up in Parliament. And they're still saying it's Russian propaganda...

jamesaurichs 3y ago

[flagged]

perihelions 3y ago

The HN discussion isn't related to a "misleading video posted on Douyin"; it's based on accurate news reporting about an academic foreign policy paper (which doesn't speak for US foreign policy). https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/05/taiwan_should_destory_tsmc_paper/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/05/taiwan_should_destory... ("US Army journal's top paper from 2021 says Taiwan should destroy TSMC if China invades") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31012442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31012442 ("Taiwan should destroy TSMC if invaded, suggests US military paper (datacenterdynamics.com)"; 148 comments) Here's extended context of what the OP is discussing, a different thing: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2023/05/12/2003799660 https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2023/05/12/... ("‘Selectively clipped’ video misrepresents US official’s TSMC comments") https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/12/microchips-us-taiwan-strategy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/12/microchip... ("Opinion: Blow up the microchips? What a Taiwan spat says about U.S. strategy") edit: Moulton's quote is at 36:22 here—this is apparently its full and complete context: https://vimeo.com/817736553 https://vimeo.com/817736553 ("The United States and China: Navigating Strategic Competition"; Milken Institute, May 2, 2023)

arp242 3y ago
> an academic foreign policy paper (which doesn't speak for the US foreign policy). From two guys who seem to have no real influence. It's basically little more than a blog post. A lot of people say a lot of stuff. Sometimes that's pretty stupid. Sometimes even worse. That's kind of how it works in a free society. The most effective lie is the one with a kernel of truth.
- dundarious 3y ago
  Rep. Seth Moulton (Mass.) is in government. And if a Chinese military journal said something, the US press would have no qualms saying "Chinese military thinks/wants X". It's on the same level of "disinformation" as 99% of journalism, which is to say, it contains minor sensationalism but has meaningful factual basis, and with minor additional qualifiers, has a reasonable factual basis.
  - arp242 3y ago
    That's just a boring pedantic whataboutism, which is also incorrect as the type of "random people can say random stuff" blue-sky thinking free speech doesn't really exist in China.
    - dundarious 3y ago
      It's not whataboutism (a nebulous and mostly useless category) to talk about common journalistic practice, and how the claim falls well within norms of that practice. So it can hardly be described as "disinformation" except in the sense that it is unflattering information coming from an official enemy.
      - dundarious 3y ago
        Just heard Lyle Goldstein (visiting professor at the Watson Institute for International & Public Affairs at Brown, Director for Asian Engagement for Defense Priorities think tank, former professor for 20 years at US Naval War College), say on the Nonzero podcast that in the event of conflict in Taiwan, it's likely that China has securing TSMC facilities and staff as a goal (but not a primary goal), and that the US likely has TSMC on the target list to destroy: https://youtu.be/91QM9W0QAjo?feature=shared&t=1950 https://youtu.be/91QM9W0QAjo?feature=shared&t=1950

WiSaGaN 3y ago

This is said by "Rep. Seth Moulton (Mass.) — one of the Democratic Party’s leading voices on defense": Speaking at a Milken Institute panel in Los Angeles, Moulton said: “One of the interesting ideas that’s been floated out there for deterrence is just making it very clear to the Chinese that if you invade Taiwan, we’re going to blow up TSMC.” He continued: “I just throw that out not because that’s necessarily the best strategy, but because it’s an example of the debate that’s out there. And of course, the Taiwanese really don’t like this idea.” [1] [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/12/microchips-us-taiwan-strategy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/12/microchip...

SanjayMehta 3y ago
That’s a bizarre idea. China wants Taiwan because they consider it a renegade province. I doubt they care about one fab.
- WiSaGaN 3y ago
  It's dangerous strategically for the US to believe that China's motivation is about TSMC. "Taiwan" might not even be just a "CCP" goal. In fact, the "CCP" wouldn't likely survive without making unification a priority.
  - 3seashells 3y ago
    Hate for the outsiders, the traditional authoritarian pressure valve.
- blackoil 3y ago
  Yeah. China has its stance consistently since 1940s, it is not that they woke up about Taiwan in 2010. It is more of a scorched earth plan. There isn't much of interest to US beyond TSMC. As long as it doesn't fall in hand of China, rest it will be OK to loose.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago

snehk 3y ago

Absolutely hilarious that - in an article talking about disinformation - they make the 100% wrong claim that the video is somehow misleading. It exists and the contents are absolutely clear. Claiming that the video is misleading is 100% disinformation. Reminds me of Trudeau who talked about Russian disinformation after they gave a standing ovation to a literal SS soldier. Anything I don't like is a Russian/Chinese fake news campaign and everyone I don't agree with is a Russian/Chinese bot. I can't believe that's what the culture in the west has become. It's really concerning.

calyth2018 3y ago
You'd think when Rota, the speaker said that the soldier thought against the Russians in WW2, people would clue in. We have 338 trained seals up in Parliament. And they're still saying it's Russian propaganda...