7 ms·
The BaseShield App Store for Windows launches (YC Winter 08)
- s3graham 18y agoNeat, seems to work reasonably well. Inkscape's a bit slow, and the breakout game has some horrible sound lag, but the get/install/run UX is really great. Anyone know how the virtualize is done?
- markessien 18y agoI read the description, and though - that sounds pretty cool. But trying it sucks: 1. I don't know what these 'apps' are. Only baseshield apps or any applications at all? 2. I'm using Mac OS X. It offered me a .exe. Tell us that on your homepage 3. Surely you can spend a bit of money to get some proper icons and not use icons that hundreds of people are already using 4. Give me some sort of idea what apps are in there without requiring me to install a .exe. Is it worth it at all - I can't know without some idea of the apps. In general, it's a pretty good idea, and something like this is neccessary for windows.
- dmpayton 18y agoI second #4. I don't use Windows, but I would be more than happy to recommend BaseShield to others that do if I only knew what apps were available.
- spydez 18y agoConcerning #2: Right below the giant "Install Now" button it says, "Beta | 14MB | Runs on Windows XP and Vista". I don't think they expect OS X folks to download it...
- stcredzero 18y agoActually, if you packaged a Windows installation with it, you could put a special version of this on OS X!
- skuzins 18y agoThanks for your comments! (I'm one of the founders) It works for application packages that are in the repository. Right now we have a collection of free software but we want to encourage developers to sign up and offer their apps through the store. We'll make the whole repository browseable soon so you can see what's in the store right away. We're also working on improving the design.
- bayareaguy 18y agoDepending on how far you go with the virtualization options, this scheme could be the basis of an superior browser plugin architecture. Have you guys thought much about how you might integrate with browsers?
- biohacker42 18y agoVirtualization layer! That's something I would not have thought of first. Despite the fact that windows security was on my mind when I started reading that article. Virtualizatin is a hefty technology chunk to bite of for a small team, very impressive. Best of luck to the BaseShield dudes and dudettes.
- tocomment 18y agoWow, that's actually a really good idea. I always assume there can be no innovation left for the desktop. I've got to stop thinking that.
- stcredzero 18y agoAlgorithm for determining if there's innovation left for X. Ask yourself these questions: 1) Are there lots of people who really want to use X? 2) Is there something that sucks about X? Your answer is the AND of these two.
- aaronblohowiak 18y agoYou may have a useful algorithm, but it does not determine if there is innovation left for X. It seems to be a function that determines if there is potential profit in innovating for X.
- pchristensen 18y agoThere's always innovation left for X. This algorithm determines if it's worth pursuing.
- wmf 18y agoSuch a good idea that it's been done, especially for games. (Steam, Direct2Drive, Stardock, etc.)
- skuzins 18y agoThe main difference is BaseShield's secure virtualization. It's true that there are other platforms that make downloads convenient, but none of them can automatically enforce certain behavior for the applications.
- thorax 18y agoThis was actually something we were also going to pitch to YC recently. Glad (I guess?) we didn't-- but without the virtualization layer (but lots of automatic automated testing) so we could handle real world/common apps.
- swies 18y agoHi everyone! We'd like to especially encourage any news.yc readers who write windows apps to distribute them via BaseShield. Just get in touch with me at my personal email: pat (at) baseshield.com -- if you want to list it for free we'll get it up right away, if you'd like to charge you'll be at the top of the list once we get payments going. Thanks!
- omouse 18y agoOne suggestion; could you show a list of apps/games supported?
- thorax 18y agoI'd like to know more about the virtualization piece-- what kind of apps can run? Some of our apps could be a bit lower-level (services, kernel-mode drivers, etc). Does BaseShield allow those? I know most system virtualization platforms cannot handle those without a full virtualized OS.
- skuzins 18y agoThe virtualization layer only supports user mode applications; kernel mode drivers unfortunately won't work. Services are not yet supported but support may be added in the future.
- bd 18y agoIf I may suggest, please change your demo video soundtrack. Looping music was very distracting, as if something went wrong. Thanks to this it was painful to watch otherwise awesome demo.
- zhyder 18y agoAgreed. Though I like how the demo (incl music) is modeled after the iPhone ads; don't change that!
- andrewf 18y agoHave you considered supporting third party "packaging" formats for Windows? Some companies, for instance, have already done the work to package up their product for U3.
- bprater 18y agoHopefully, it won't require developers to use a specific language or framework. An interesting alternative idea might be to create a cross-platform "app store" written in AIR that delivers cross-platform AIR apps.
- snprbob86 18y agoThat's the beauty of virtualization: You just find a layer to slice at below everything else, cut there, and everything above it should work. Hopefully, reguardless of language or framework if you make your cut at the right place.
- epall 18y agoMan I wish I had this for OS X apps. I know there are tons of awesome apps out there for the Mac, and I use many, but if there were some central place to find them I'm sure I'd buy more.
- joshwa 18y agohttp://osx.iusethis.com/ http://osx.iusethis.com/ http://www.versiontracker.com/ http://www.versiontracker.com/
- dmpayton 18y agoIdea time. Every time I reformat my windows machine I have to manually download and install all the programs I use. So what about the ability to create common configurations? Or tag apps? You could simply click "Install all apps tagged with 'X'", go make dinner, and and come back to a machine that's ready to go. For those who reformat often or are always setting up new vbox/vmware instances (like me), this would be very handy. Of course, it also depends on which apps are available. Note: I have not yet used BaseShield, so if something like this is already in place, ignore me.
- pavelludiq 18y agoI really liked how the icons on the right side of the home page look surprisingly gnome-like :D
- pg 18y agoI have to salute the Baseshields for their imagination. Originally the virtualization sw was going to be the product. Might still be. But then they realized that, having built it, they could basically take over the delivery of software on Windows. I was blown away when Patrick came by YC to give me a demo. I thought I was going to be seeing a demo of virtualization sw, which, frankly, is not that interesting, and instead they'd built the Windows App Store.
- Kaizyn 18y agoThe app store seems like a good idea. However, I don't understand the purpose of a virtualization layer on top of Windows.
- staunch 18y ago> I don't understand the purpose of a virtualization layer on top of Windows. To maintain the integrity of your computer in the face of potentially untrustworthy third party applications. You could compare BaseShield to a dating service (app store) that enforces the use of condoms (virtualization). Not that I'm recommending the BS'ers use that analogy though.
- Kaizyn 18y agoWhy would anyone need or want this? Running Windows as a standard user and/or Vista's UAC mechanism seems to provide the same functionality. I can see that the virtualization layer is more beneficial if you were trying to make it so applications behaved the same when running on Windows, Mac, or Linux. In this case, you'd be expanding on existing things like Apache's Portable Runtime, Wine or Parallels. However, the business case for your Windows sand boxing system is not something that makes sense to me.
- snprbob86 18y ago"Running Windows as a standard user and/or Vista's UAC mechanism seems to provide the same functionality." This isn't true under Windows. It's not true under Linux or OSX either. Think of your software security boundaries as an onion. In the middle you have kernel mode, then system services, then the administrator user land, followed by a common user. Application virtualization adds one more layer to the onion. Not only are applications insulated from your system, but they are also insulated from other applications. The ultimate model is much closer to that of a web browser with domain restrictions on cookies and the like. This is the next logical step in fighting malware.
- snprbob86 18y agoReally cool product/tech! Have you looked at Softricity and their product SoftGrid? SoftGrid was a similar app virtualization platform. It was quite mature and complete. They were acquired by Microsoft a few years ago. I think some of their tech is being used in Windows 7 with the pending Application Binary Interface break.
- Feynman 18y agoExactly. This product is like a very, very early SoftGrid... which has been out for a few years now. It's now called Microsoft Application Virtualization (Softricity was purchased by Microsoft about 2 years ago). This certainly isn't anything new -- software virtualization on Windows. VMWare has a s/w virt. product, so Does Altiris, and so does Citrix Xen. I suppose since these products are mainly enterprise focused, most people never even hear of them.
- staunch 18y agoI really do like this and if it's good and there's good software available through it I would definitely recommend it to friends and family. But, by making it safe, easy and quick to install desktop applications again one could argue that BaseShield is really the enemy of every web application in existence. It's going to have to die.
- vizard 18y agoWell I guess there is still a long road ahead. They are a service+infrastructure provider. I would approach some ISVs to actually deploy via BaseShield and to also approach some IHVs to bundle BaseShield with new PCs perhaps.
- illumen 18y agoI don't really see how you can claim it makes apps safe if you provide access to 3D hardware. Anyone who has done any 3D hardware programming will know that it's easy to crash/exploit through 3D APIs. Having said that... nice one! I see some code I wrote on there is being offered up! So can you please send me the source ;) You should provide any source for binaries you are distributing that require such things... including diffs to changes you've made (for software with those licenses). There's lots of these types of app stores(portals) around... but I like how you've at least attempted to make it safe. I still think a process of review and trust will help just as much, so I hope you have those ideas mixed in. Also, are you doing anything to try and stop piracy for paid apps?
- ivank 18y agoCan you actually completely take down Vista 64 through 3D APIs, given the user-level drivers? It would be very interesting if you could. The only plausible way I know of is to repeatedly crash the driver for several minutes, and even this is uncertain (I've seen this happen with Forceware + DirectX 10).
- illumen 18y agoNot entirely sure about vista 64. However I've taken down vista 32 and win XP.
- suaku 18y agoGreat Stuff! Hope this will become the next Apple iphone app store for the rest of us!
- kenshi 18y agoThis could be awesome if it takes off. I've always thought the biggest barrier to desktop app adoption vs webapp adoption is the problem of finding and deploying apps. If this takes off we could witness a rejuvenation in the market for desktop apps on Windows. As a developer who is often frustrated by how much application development these days is limited to the capabilities of the browser, something that solves the problem of safely deploying and managing application installs, really appeals. Good luck Baseshield guys!
- ideamonk 18y agoHow do I put my own app on sale on BaseShielf App Store ?
- swies 18y agoWe have a form linked from the front page of the App Store just below the featured apps. You can also just get in touch with me: pat (at) baseshield.com and we'll get you going quickly. Because of our secure virtualization layer apps can run safely with no modification needed.
- halo 18y agoA few comments from using it: * The installer is utterly terrible and gave me no options whatsoever like installation location or where to put icons, which is just outright obnoxious in the Windows world. * The application installs it itself in C:\Windows\system32\BaseShield\BaseShield\Data\AppStore. This is extremely bad karma - I have /never/ used a legitimate application that did this. Hiding your application amongst the operating system is just something you outright don't do. * The uninstall is flawed. It did not remove the applications and left data in c:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\BaseShield, c:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\BaseShield\ and c:\Windows\System32\Baseshield\Baseshield. It also did not uninstall the application I installed to test (Abiword), leaving 24 megabytes of data on my hard-disk drive, and I had to uninstall it by hand, along with removing its icon from both my desktop and start menu. * Using an application's icon in the application stub that launches the main application is dubiously legal at best. * The user interface is bad, and makes Steam look good, which is a scary state of affairs. Please use Windows-native widgets where possible. Personally, I would not use, nor recommend anyone use, the application as currently designed.
- skuzins 18y agoThis installer makes it as easy as possible to install the product without asking the user to make unnecessary decisions. The reasoning is that the few users who don't want a desktop icon are likely to be advanced users like you who can easily delete the icon. Regarding installation in the Windows directory, flash also does this (C:\WINDOWS\system32\Macromed\Flash). For BaseShield there are technical reasons why some components need to be below the system32 directory. Please use the one click uninstall to remove downloaded applications before uninstalling BaseShield. We need to make this more clear or automatic, sorry. Feel free to contact me directly at sascha (at) baseshield.com with any technical issues. Thanks for trying it out and for your feedback!
- endlessvoid94 18y agoDoesn't support 64-bit windows? I'd LOVE to use this product. I'll be watching avidly for a release that supports 64-bit vista. Not to be overly critical, I realize 64-bit isn't a priority for a startup, but why wouldn't it be supported? Is there really that much of a difference for an application?
- skuzins 18y agoYou're absolutely right, no fundamental reason why it wouldn't work. It's mainly that some components need to be re-compiled for 64bit with some adjustments for Wow64. It's high up on the list of things to get done.