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> As a precautionary measure, the hospital followed mandatory reporting statutes and my wife and I temporarily lost custody of David. Thanks to our incredibly e

> As a precautionary measure, the hospital followed mandatory reporting statutes and my wife and I temporarily lost custody of David. Thanks to our incredibly effective defense lawyer, we were cleared of all charges within two months, during which we stayed at the hospital 24/7 with David until we sorted out the legal procedures. Holy shit. Parents bring baby to ER ... results reveal that baby was shaken (article later confirms this was not the case) ... parents lose custody for 2 months. Horror story.

roughly 3y ago
And: > [O]ur nanny was eventually cleared of all charges, but it took four years for the court to recognize my son’s medical condition (a rare occurrence in France, as I later discovered) during which we were forbidden to speak to her and she was forbidden to approach children, thus losing her means of livelihood.
cm2012 3y ago
Not surprised it happened in France, they are much more of a nanny state (in good and bad ways) when it comes to parenting. Like the fact that paternity tests are banned unless you have a court order, etc.
- huytersd 3y ago
  Can’t you just get a paternity test online? Otherwise that’s an insane situation, do they expect a dad to raise a kid that is not his?
  - sneak 3y ago
    It's not insane. Genetic lineage is the least important factor in whether or not a given kid is "yours".
    - huytersd 3y ago
      It’s by far the most important factor. Who are you to say it isn’t?
      - hcrean 3y ago
        [flagged]
        huytersd 3y ago
        The welfare of someone else’s child doesn’t register very highly on a majority of people’s radars beyond basic humanitarian considerations. How about government provided daycare and forcing the mother to work.
        sneak 3y ago
        Possession is nine tenths of the law. It's not someone else's child if it's in your house and you need a genetic test to deny responsibility. This idea that bloodlines are relevant is anachronistic superstition. Several of my friends are not genetically related to their children. It's simply not relevant.
        cm2012 3y ago
        Adopting is no big deal. Being cuckolded is generally considered one of the biggest betrayals in the human experience. It's incredibly relevant to know if your spouse is faithful to you!
        mark_up 3y ago
        It might matter to you, but it has no bearing on the welfare of a child or the greater good of the community.
        huytersd 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - jalapenos 3y ago
      I think this is the most bizarre statement I've read on the internet this year. And this is the internet.
  - lmm 3y ago
    > Can’t you just get a paternity test online? You can, but it's a crime, much like buying banned drugs etc. > do they expect a dad to raise a kid that is not his? Yes.
  - seszett 3y ago
    > do they expect a dad to raise a kid that is not his? You just need a court order to do a paternity test, they're not banned but regulated by law.
- arp242 3y ago
  reason.com has an entire long-running series of stories like this happening in the U.S. I've heard quite a few stories from the Netherlands. It probably happens in other countries as well. It's an issue in many Western countries, where we've seemingly become risk-averse to the point where it's causing more harm than good.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    Here in Norway the child protection services have been found guilty[1] of being too quick to remove children from their parents, and not letting the parents see them. This seems to have led to the pendulum swinging too much in the opposite direction, where they now seemingly force foster kids to meet their biological parents against the kid's will[2]... [1]: https://rett24.no/articles/norge-felt-i-ni-nye-barnevernsaker-i-strasbourg https://rett24.no/articles/norge-felt-i-ni-nye-barnevernsake... [2]: https://www.nrk.no/norge/mener-fosterbarn-presses-til-skadelig-samvaer-med-biologiske-foreldre-1.16553894 https://www.nrk.no/norge/mener-fosterbarn-presses-til-skadel...
trenchgun 3y ago
>parents lose custody for 2 months. Horror story. If you read the rest of the article, you will realize that this was the absolute happy path in that kind of situation. That's the real horror story: that the default path involves stuff like losing custody forever, incarceration, suicide, divorce etc.
- cnity 3y ago
  Watch the Netflix documentary Taking Care of Maya for a sobering and ongoing look into this.
- rossant 3y ago
  Yes, after discovering hundreds of families living much worse situations, I consider myself as one of the lucky few. I'm grateful for that and this is why I can spend so much energy ensuring it doesn't affect too many other families in the future.
  - lgvld 3y ago
    I'm happy for you -- the parents -- and your son. Thank you for your dedication. Wish you the best.
jollyllama 3y ago
What's the outcome for the kid? Can the system even do much to help with the child's medical condition? If not, it's irrational for people to take their children in for examination; there's no benefit and you risk being accused.
- rossant 3y ago
  He underwent surgery to remove the excess of fluid around the brain, and his condition progressively improved. It could have worsened without the operation, we'll never know. Now, at almost 8, he's doing great. I've seen cases where parents call the ER after a collapse of their child, only to see their child wake up just fine a few minutes later. The EMT tells them it's not necessary to bring their child to the hospital given the child has recovered, but the parents insist. At the hospital, sometimes they have to insist too for a CT scan to be performed. This is where doctors find subdural bleeding and the parents end up accused, the child is removed for months, etc. Yet, the child gets no particular medical treatment. None of this would have occurred if the parents hadn't insisted!
- bluGill 3y ago
  Parents only know symptoms, which could be anything. Those same symptoms (or small variations) can lead to a very different diagnosis which is easily treatable.
cwmma 3y ago
Something similar happened recently in Massachusetts with a doctor seeing an injury the parents couldn't explain and the kid being taken away for a while. Injury turned out to probably have been done by the grandparents who never told the parents because the kid didn't fuss, but the kids were taken away in the middle of the night. https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/massachusetts-dcf-emergency-removal/2841841/ https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/massachusetts-dcf-e...
- danenania 3y ago
  My first inclination here is to blame the doctor. Per the Hippocratic Oath, doctors need to understand the implications of making reports like this and only do so in cases where there isn't reasonable doubt or plausible explanations other than abuse. Separating children from parents and making accusations like this is extremely traumatic in itself, so the evidence bar needs to be very high. Even if the rules tell doctors that they need to make a report in a given scenario, they should not be following the rules when they know the bureaucracies that handle these reports are dysfunctional and prone to separating children without conclusive evidence. Imo they are responsible for protecting their patients from the system in these cases.
  - cool_dude85 3y ago
    I'm not sure if it's federal, but in my state a doctor is required to report anything they feel is unusual. Mandated reporter, it's called.
    - aidenn0 3y ago
      There's a federal act (CAPTA) that requires states to adopt mandatory reporting rules, but the rules vary from state-to-state. Some states, simply by being in a particular profession you are required to report (even when not on the job); in other states it's specifically when evidence is uncovered while performing your duties; in some states, all people are required to report. I've never encountered a state in which a medical doctor encountering evidence of abuse while seeing a patient is not required to report it, with the exception of some states exempting mental-health professionals told things in confidence (so a psychiatrist, which is also an MD, might not be required to report it depending on the state).
aqme28 3y ago
I can't help but think that incidents like this might make parents less likely to take their baby to the ER out of fear.

roughly 3y ago

And: > [O]ur nanny was eventually cleared of all charges, but it took four years for the court to recognize my son’s medical condition (a rare occurrence in France, as I later discovered) during which we were forbidden to speak to her and she was forbidden to approach children, thus losing her means of livelihood.

cm2012 3y ago

Not surprised it happened in France, they are much more of a nanny state (in good and bad ways) when it comes to parenting. Like the fact that paternity tests are banned unless you have a court order, etc.

huytersd 3y ago
Can’t you just get a paternity test online? Otherwise that’s an insane situation, do they expect a dad to raise a kid that is not his?
- sneak 3y ago
  It's not insane. Genetic lineage is the least important factor in whether or not a given kid is "yours".
  - huytersd 3y ago
    It’s by far the most important factor. Who are you to say it isn’t?
    - hcrean 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - huytersd 3y ago
        The welfare of someone else’s child doesn’t register very highly on a majority of people’s radars beyond basic humanitarian considerations. How about government provided daycare and forcing the mother to work.
        sneak 3y ago
        Possession is nine tenths of the law. It's not someone else's child if it's in your house and you need a genetic test to deny responsibility. This idea that bloodlines are relevant is anachronistic superstition. Several of my friends are not genetically related to their children. It's simply not relevant.
        cm2012 3y ago
        Adopting is no big deal. Being cuckolded is generally considered one of the biggest betrayals in the human experience. It's incredibly relevant to know if your spouse is faithful to you!
        mark_up 3y ago
        It might matter to you, but it has no bearing on the welfare of a child or the greater good of the community.
        huytersd 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - jalapenos 3y ago
    I think this is the most bizarre statement I've read on the internet this year. And this is the internet.
- lmm 3y ago
  > Can’t you just get a paternity test online? You can, but it's a crime, much like buying banned drugs etc. > do they expect a dad to raise a kid that is not his? Yes.
- seszett 3y ago
  > do they expect a dad to raise a kid that is not his? You just need a court order to do a paternity test, they're not banned but regulated by law.
arp242 3y ago
reason.com has an entire long-running series of stories like this happening in the U.S. I've heard quite a few stories from the Netherlands. It probably happens in other countries as well. It's an issue in many Western countries, where we've seemingly become risk-averse to the point where it's causing more harm than good.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  Here in Norway the child protection services have been found guilty[1] of being too quick to remove children from their parents, and not letting the parents see them. This seems to have led to the pendulum swinging too much in the opposite direction, where they now seemingly force foster kids to meet their biological parents against the kid's will[2]... [1]: https://rett24.no/articles/norge-felt-i-ni-nye-barnevernsaker-i-strasbourg https://rett24.no/articles/norge-felt-i-ni-nye-barnevernsake... [2]: https://www.nrk.no/norge/mener-fosterbarn-presses-til-skadelig-samvaer-med-biologiske-foreldre-1.16553894 https://www.nrk.no/norge/mener-fosterbarn-presses-til-skadel...

trenchgun 3y ago

>parents lose custody for 2 months. Horror story. If you read the rest of the article, you will realize that this was the absolute happy path in that kind of situation. That's the real horror story: that the default path involves stuff like losing custody forever, incarceration, suicide, divorce etc.

cnity 3y ago
Watch the Netflix documentary Taking Care of Maya for a sobering and ongoing look into this.
rossant 3y ago
Yes, after discovering hundreds of families living much worse situations, I consider myself as one of the lucky few. I'm grateful for that and this is why I can spend so much energy ensuring it doesn't affect too many other families in the future.
- lgvld 3y ago
  I'm happy for you -- the parents -- and your son. Thank you for your dedication. Wish you the best.

jollyllama 3y ago

What's the outcome for the kid? Can the system even do much to help with the child's medical condition? If not, it's irrational for people to take their children in for examination; there's no benefit and you risk being accused.

rossant 3y ago
He underwent surgery to remove the excess of fluid around the brain, and his condition progressively improved. It could have worsened without the operation, we'll never know. Now, at almost 8, he's doing great. I've seen cases where parents call the ER after a collapse of their child, only to see their child wake up just fine a few minutes later. The EMT tells them it's not necessary to bring their child to the hospital given the child has recovered, but the parents insist. At the hospital, sometimes they have to insist too for a CT scan to be performed. This is where doctors find subdural bleeding and the parents end up accused, the child is removed for months, etc. Yet, the child gets no particular medical treatment. None of this would have occurred if the parents hadn't insisted!
bluGill 3y ago
Parents only know symptoms, which could be anything. Those same symptoms (or small variations) can lead to a very different diagnosis which is easily treatable.

cwmma 3y ago

Something similar happened recently in Massachusetts with a doctor seeing an injury the parents couldn't explain and the kid being taken away for a while. Injury turned out to probably have been done by the grandparents who never told the parents because the kid didn't fuss, but the kids were taken away in the middle of the night. https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/massachusetts-dcf-emergency-removal/2841841/ https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/massachusetts-dcf-e...

danenania 3y ago
My first inclination here is to blame the doctor. Per the Hippocratic Oath, doctors need to understand the implications of making reports like this and only do so in cases where there isn't reasonable doubt or plausible explanations other than abuse. Separating children from parents and making accusations like this is extremely traumatic in itself, so the evidence bar needs to be very high. Even if the rules tell doctors that they need to make a report in a given scenario, they should not be following the rules when they know the bureaucracies that handle these reports are dysfunctional and prone to separating children without conclusive evidence. Imo they are responsible for protecting their patients from the system in these cases.
- cool_dude85 3y ago
  I'm not sure if it's federal, but in my state a doctor is required to report anything they feel is unusual. Mandated reporter, it's called.
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    There's a federal act (CAPTA) that requires states to adopt mandatory reporting rules, but the rules vary from state-to-state. Some states, simply by being in a particular profession you are required to report (even when not on the job); in other states it's specifically when evidence is uncovered while performing your duties; in some states, all people are required to report. I've never encountered a state in which a medical doctor encountering evidence of abuse while seeing a patient is not required to report it, with the exception of some states exempting mental-health professionals told things in confidence (so a psychiatrist, which is also an MD, might not be required to report it depending on the state).

aqme28 3y ago

I can't help but think that incidents like this might make parents less likely to take their baby to the ER out of fear.